General discussion on CSI and Settled Status. Big issues for people on the EEA-Applications Routes

[mike20]

Does CSI apply only to periods within the UK?

Yes. And only if the EEA citizen was exercising treaty rights as a student or as a self-sufficient person.

If the EEA citizen was employed/self-employed/job-seeking while in the UK, then there is no need to prove CSI for those periods.

Thank you Simon. And I suppose that minor periods can be seen with discretion? E.g. someone arriving X days earlier to their start of employment, or having some days gap between employment without CSI and studying with CSI?

[AnotherUUID]

I understand you might not have good experiences with them.
But like I mentioned before they were correctly updated in the topic. I didn’t have the feeling to talk to incompetent staff.
Also the point is as we can see CSI isn’t considered so far as we have seen here and I have on other places and in my privacy seeing people with a clear lack of CSI, absolutely not exercising treaty rights being successful these days still.
They never said to me it’s not important. It’s clearly a requirement from the time the guidance been updated.
So they are saying what is indeed happening so far and what will be about applications after the new guidance we will see in some weeks it few months.

The point @secret.simon was making is simply that advice given from the helpline - even that on record - cannot be used, even in courts as it seems, to influence/reconsider the decision made or being made by the actual caseworkers. This is irrelevant as to whether the advice given by the person happens to be correct or incorrect, or how knowledgable they themselves may be on the matter.

Re the series of reported successful outcomes - this is great news and a good trend, but bear in mind it doesn't mean that CSI is not being considered either retrospectively or going forward. It may be that caseworkers are exercising discretion in favour of the applicants and it may be that this is established as common practice within HO unless there's something else to cast doubts on the applicants character. We can only speculate.

Apart from being difficult to prove if discretion was used in a successful application, the problem with exercising discretion is that, not surprisingly, there are no guarantees for other applicants. It introduces non-determinism in the decision process. So, advising people whether they should/shouldn't apply becomes more stochastic/gamble, despite there potentially being good chance of success from the reports we have seen so far.

[Frou01]

I understand you might not have good experiences with them.
But like I mentioned before they were correctly updated in the topic. I didn’t have the feeling to talk to incompetent staff.
Also the point is as we can see CSI isn’t considered so far as we have seen here and I have on other places and in my privacy seeing people with a clear lack of CSI, absolutely not exercising treaty rights being successful these days still.
They never said to me it’s not important. It’s clearly a requirement from the time the guidance been updated.
So they are saying what is indeed happening so far and what will be about applications after the new guidance we will see in some weeks it few months.

The point @secret.simon was making is simply that advice given from the helpline - even that on record - cannot be used, even in courts as it seems, to influence/reconsider the decision made or being made by the actual caseworkers. This is irrelevant as to whether the advice given by the person happens to be correct or incorrect, or how knowledgable they themselves may be on the matter.

Re the series of reported successful outcomes - this is great news and a good trend, but bear in mind it doesn't mean that CSI is not being considered either retrospectively or going forward. It may be that caseworkers are exercising discretion in favour of the applicants and it may be that this is established as common practice within HO unless there's something else to cast doubts on the applicants character. We can only speculate.

Apart from being difficult to prove if discretion was used in a successful application, the problem with exercising discretion is that, not surprisingly, there are no guarantees for other applicants. It introduces non-determinism in the decision process. So, advising people whether they should/shouldn't apply becomes more stochastic/gamble, despite there potentially being good chance of success from the reports we have seen so far.

Yes, you might be right here.

[Garth1989]

Hi,

Would someone be able to give some guidance on my case. I am NON-EEA dependent child over 21 years old and received my Settled status at the end of June this year. I would like to apply for citizenship in 12 months time but I am worried about this CSI guidance. I haven't required it for any of my applications before but I am worried that it will now be required for BC. My EEA family member (father) is employed therefore doesn't need it(He also doesn't intend to apply for BC). I was studying when i moved to the UK and held menial jobs in-between (hence dependence). I will be applying for BC on my own as I now have a job now and not dependent on my family member, but I am worried that i may have needed it before which will void my BC application?
Any guidance will be welcome.

[Frou01]

As it’s been awhile now.
Anyone else lately got approved with lack of CSI or got asked by caseworkers to prove evidence of insurance?
Would like to know how they handle it these days?

[quentin50ino]

Hi all,
I've only just found out about this CSI situation..

I've got a 7 months employment gap (of which 2 spent abroad) over 6 years in the UK.

I was granted Settled Status in May 2019 and I was self-sufficient for a month in June 2018 - after 4 years in the same job - then left for 2 months and came back in September, when I started looking for a new job and received two offers between November and December, ending up accepting the latter with start the following January.

Like many, I had no idea a CSI was necessary and I'm now worried this may be an issue.
For what is worth, I can prove I was away for 2 months (not sure if the EHIC covered me for that period or not) and that I was actively looking for jobs for the rest of the time, although this didn't happen through a Job Centre.

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Q

[naskomj]

If you at some s worker in the last 5 years, and at the rest of the time you received benefits and the government paid you NINo , do you need CSI or not?
Are you going to have problems with your naturalisation application?

[dogcat]

After 5 continuous/ consecutive years of exercising treaty rights i.e. working; being self employed; being self sufficient +CSI /EHIC (being insured back in your country of nationality ) ; studying + CSI /EHIC (being insured back in your country of nationality ) PR status is achieved automatically and you don't have to exercise treaty rights any longer.

[naskomj]

After 5 continuous/ consecutive years of exercising treaty rights i.e. working; being self employed; being self sufficient +CSI /EHIC (being insured back in your country of nationality ) ; studying + CSI /EHIC (being insured back in your country of nationality ) PR status is achieved automatically and you don't have to exercise treaty rights any longer.

So if you had 4 years as worker and 1 year as on benefits with no CSI , you will not be a person with PR status!? Because if you are on benefits you will have NINo class 1, or 3 paid.

[dogcat]

I've just stated what the law is (or seems to be) to the best of my abilities LOL
So to be honest- I don't know.

[Stefan Piatek]

As it’s been awhile now.
Anyone else lately got approved with lack of CSI or got asked by caseworkers to prove evidence of insurance?
Would like to know how they handle it these days?

As I believe this is a very important question, I would like to remind this question, I think many people are curious about it as well.

[uklondonn]

Hi,

I've been thinking in a solution for this gamble: applying to BC (With Settle status) having a gap on employment and no CSI to provide.

And I remembered about the possibility to apply for Permanent Residence first (EEA Route).

I thought I would not have available this option (As It won't be valid anymore after the 31st of December 2020), but I've read that the 5 years qualifying period can be backdated, and you only need 1 year after you have accomplished that 5 years period to apply for BC. In other words, after the 5 years qualifying period, you become free of immigration control. That's why you can apply for British citizenship.

I've seen this here for example:
https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 81827.html

Permanent Residence (PR)
Its validity is retroactive, i.e. an applicant can, in the appropriate circumstances, apply for British nationality straight after receiving PR (if PR is confirmed at a date a year or more earlier than application date).

If I can receive the PR confirmation before 31st of December 2020, and they write that I'm free from immigration control a year ago, I will be ready to apply for BC.

I've a few doubts I've written on this thread: https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 03507.html

My main doubts are about timings (as PR would not be valid anymore on 2021), the need to provide proofs for any period previous to the 5 years qualifying period. (Otherwise I will have the same issues as with the BC), and anything wrong about applying for PR when you have already Settle Status.

I know my case is quite specific, and this solution might not work for most of you, but if you had the same bad lucky as me (If I had waited only a bit more to apply for Settle Status, I wouldn't had any issue at all), then maybe this is a good possibility.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

[askmeplz82]

So how long one should wait after getting settled status? Plz advise

5 years after PRE SETTLED or SETTLED

[Frou01]

Hi,

I've been thinking in a solution for this gamble: applying to BC (With Settle status) having a gap on employment and no CSI to provide.

And I remembered about the possibility to apply for Permanent Residence first (EEA Route).

I thought I would not have available this option (As It won't be valid anymore after the 31st of December 2020), but I've read that the 5 years qualifying period can be backdated, and you only need 1 year after you have accomplished that 5 years period to apply for BC. In other words, after the 5 years qualifying period, you become free of immigration control. That's why you can apply for British citizenship.

I've seen this here for example:
https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 81827.html

Permanent Residence (PR)
Its validity is retroactive, i.e. an applicant can, in the appropriate circumstances, apply for British nationality straight after receiving PR (if PR is confirmed at a date a year or more earlier than application date).

If I can receive the PR confirmation before 31st of December 2020, and they write that I'm free from immigration control a year ago, I will be ready to apply for BC.

I've a few doubts I've written on this thread: https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 03507.html

My main doubts are about timings (as PR would not be valid anymore on 2021), the need to provide proofs for any period previous to the 5 years qualifying period. (Otherwise I will have the same issues as with the BC), and anything wrong about applying for PR when you have already Settle Status.

I know my case is quite specific, and this solution might not work for most of you, but if you had the same bad lucky as me (If I had waited only a bit more to apply for Settle Status, I wouldn't had any issue at all), then maybe this is a good possibility.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Why would you do that?
If you have in your time in the UK 5 continuous years of employment then you automatically received a PR Status when they look at your application?

You would just state it anyway in your 10 year employment history and in your cover letter.

[uklondonn]

Hi,

I've been thinking in a solution for this gamble: applying to BC (With Settle status) having a gap on employment and no CSI to provide.

And I remembered about the possibility to apply for Permanent Residence first (EEA Route).

I thought I would not have available this option (As It won't be valid anymore after the 31st of December 2020), but I've read that the 5 years qualifying period can be backdated, and you only need 1 year after you have accomplished that 5 years period to apply for BC. In other words, after the 5 years qualifying period, you become free of immigration control. That's why you can apply for British citizenship.

I've seen this here for example:
https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 81827.html

Permanent Residence (PR)
Its validity is retroactive, i.e. an applicant can, in the appropriate circumstances, apply for British nationality straight after receiving PR (if PR is confirmed at a date a year or more earlier than application date).

If I can receive the PR confirmation before 31st of December 2020, and they write that I'm free from immigration control a year ago, I will be ready to apply for BC.

I've a few doubts I've written on this thread: https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 03507.html

My main doubts are about timings (as PR would not be valid anymore on 2021), the need to provide proofs for any period previous to the 5 years qualifying period. (Otherwise I will have the same issues as with the BC), and anything wrong about applying for PR when you have already Settle Status.

I know my case is quite specific, and this solution might not work for most of you, but if you had the same bad lucky as me (If I had waited only a bit more to apply for Settle Status, I wouldn't had any issue at all), then maybe this is a good possibility.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Why would you do that?
If you have in your time in the UK 5 continuous years of employment then you automatically received a PR Status when they look at your application?

You would just state it anyway in your 10 year employment history and in your cover letter.

Hey @Frou01 , I know about the automatic status but I thought I would need to apply for Permanent Residence in order to get officially that status, so I can apply for British Citizenship with that route, instead of Settle Status.

I've had a quick read to the AN Guide https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -06-20.pdf, and I can see this (Page 15):

If you have been granted indefinite leave to enter or remain in the UK, including
under the EU Settlement Scheme, and use that to support your application we will
use the date you were granted ILR as the date that you became free from
immigration time restrictions. If you acquired permanent residence before being
granted indefinite leave to enter or remain under the EU Settlement Scheme and
want to rely on the date that you acquired permanent residence for your citizenship
application, you will need to have a permanent residence document.
.

And this:

If you believe you are free from immigration time restrictions to reside in the UK for
another reason, please give details at section 2.8 and provide evidence of this

The wording is a little bit confusing, but in page 14 is more clear (At least for my understanding):

If you are a national of a country which is a member state of the EEA or Switzerland,
or the family member of such a person and providing you complied with the
requirements of the EEA Regulations, such as holding comprehensive sickness
insurance, you will automatically have permanent residence status after exercising
free movement rights in the UK for any continuous period of 5 years ending on or
after 30 April 2006. If you wish to, you can apply for a permanent residence card to
prove that you hold the status before applying for citizenship. Information on
permanent residence cards can be found on the Gov.UK website.

It's saying that I need to have a permanent residence card in order to apply for British citizenship with this route...

Did you see something different in any other part of the guide?

UNLESS, "If you wish" means... it's totally optional. But it's super confusing...

[uklondonn]

It's also here unfortunately...

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-eea

If you or a family member are from the EU, EEA or Switzerland, you usually get ‘permanent residence’ status automatically after living in the UK for 5 years.

You need a permanent residence document that proves your status before you can apply for British citizenship.

You’ll usually need to have had permanent residence status for 12 months before you can apply for citizenship. You will not need to wait 12 months to apply if you’re married to or in a civil partnership with a British citizen

[dogcat]

Assuming, you've been granted Settled Status, I don't think anybody is going to revoke it for you so you can then apply for PR card.

Why not just explain that you have been exercising treaty rights for 5 cont.years at some point and achieved PR status therefore there was no need for you to be exercising treaty rights past the point of achieving PR status.

[Frou01]

Hi,

I've been thinking in a solution for this gamble: applying to BC (With Settle status) having a gap on employment and no CSI to provide.

And I remembered about the possibility to apply for Permanent Residence first (EEA Route).

I thought I would not have available this option (As It won't be valid anymore after the 31st of December 2020), but I've read that the 5 years qualifying period can be backdated, and you only need 1 year after you have accomplished that 5 years period to apply for BC. In other words, after the 5 years qualifying period, you become free of immigration control. That's why you can apply for British citizenship.

I've seen this here for example:
https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 81827.html

Permanent Residence (PR)
Its validity is retroactive, i.e. an applicant can, in the appropriate circumstances, apply for British nationality straight after receiving PR (if PR is confirmed at a date a year or more earlier than application date).

If I can receive the PR confirmation before 31st of December 2020, and they write that I'm free from immigration control a year ago, I will be ready to apply for BC.

I've a few doubts I've written on this thread: https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 03507.html

My main doubts are about timings (as PR would not be valid anymore on 2021), the need to provide proofs for any period previous to the 5 years qualifying period. (Otherwise I will have the same issues as with the BC), and anything wrong about applying for PR when you have already Settle Status.

I know my case is quite specific, and this solution might not work for most of you, but if you had the same bad lucky as me (If I had waited only a bit more to apply for Settle Status, I wouldn't had any issue at all), then maybe this is a good possibility.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Why would you do that?
If you have in your time in the UK 5 continuous years of employment then you automatically received a PR Status when they look at your application?

You would just state it anyway in your 10 year employment history and in your cover letter.

Hey @Frou01 , I know about the automatic status but I thought I would need to apply for Permanent Residence in order to get officially that status, so I can apply for British Citizenship with that route, instead of Settle Status.

I've had a quick read to the AN Guide https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -06-20.pdf, and I can see this (Page 15):

If you have been granted indefinite leave to enter or remain in the UK, including
under the EU Settlement Scheme, and use that to support your application we will
use the date you were granted ILR as the date that you became free from
immigration time restrictions. If you acquired permanent residence before being
granted indefinite leave to enter or remain under the EU Settlement Scheme and
want to rely on the date that you acquired permanent residence for your citizenship
application, you will need to have a permanent residence document.
.

And this:

If you believe you are free from immigration time restrictions to reside in the UK for
another reason, please give details at section 2.8 and provide evidence of this

The wording is a little bit confusing, but in page 14 is more clear (At least for my understanding):

If you are a national of a country which is a member state of the EEA or Switzerland,
or the family member of such a person and providing you complied with the
requirements of the EEA Regulations, such as holding comprehensive sickness
insurance, you will automatically have permanent residence status after exercising
free movement rights in the UK for any continuous period of 5 years ending on or
after 30 April 2006. If you wish to, you can apply for a permanent residence card to
prove that you hold the status before applying for citizenship. Information on
permanent residence cards can be found on the Gov.UK website.

It's saying that I need to have a permanent residence card in order to apply for British citizenship with this route...

Did you see something different in any other part of the guide?

UNLESS, "If you wish" means... it's totally optional. But it's super confusing...

Unfortunately I’m confused about it as well now.

Why not try an immigration adviser or somewhere to get a free professional advice just on that matter.

I’m btw one of them with a pending application in that circumstances.
When I applied first days of my still the old guidance was in place, but the wording has changed.
I had a period not exercising treaty rights as I had very difficult circumstances.
When the guidance was published two weeks after my submission I instructed an immigration lawyer explaining my circumstances in a new cover letter.
Also I provided more evidence to prove what has happened back then.

I’m in full time employment, but just not all the time.

The uncertainty is very concerning for me.
I personally think my situation some years ago provides sufficient evidence to exercise discretion.
But I have no idea how the caseworker will see that.

I really hope for the best and that the wait will be over soon!

[alterhase58]

Re. PR card requirement for naturalisation:
the requirement to have a document certifying permanent residence has been in place since 2015, and had to be held one year (just like ILR & Settled Status) from acquiring PR (except if PR was acquired more than five years before application then could be used immediately). And if spouse is British citizen then could apply immediately.

[uklondonn]

Re. PR card requirement for naturalisation:
the requirement to have a document certifying permanent residence has been in place since 2015, and had to be held one year (just like ILR & Settled Status) from acquiring PR (except if PR was acquired more than five years before application then could be used immediately). And if spouse is British citizen then could apply immediately.

Thanks for clarifying Alterhase58.

Now I need to find out if I can apply for PR having Settle status. I'm in doubt because I found this:
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-ci ... ve-applied

If you already have an outstanding immigration application
In most cases, your outstanding immigration application will not be considered if you apply for the EU Settlement Scheme. You’ll get a refund for your outstanding application.
Contact UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) to find out how your outstanding immigration application will be affected.

And they actually ask me for any Home Office visa/document I've applied for and the number. So they are going to find out about my Settle Status straight away.

I might call the Home Office support line to ask about this... Unless anyone found something in an official guide? Or by someone's experience?

Assuming, you've been granted Settled Status, I don't think anybody is going to revoke it for you so you can then apply for PR card.

Why not just explain that you have been exercising treaty rights for 5 cont.years at some point and achieved PR status therefore there was no need for you to be exercising treaty rights past the point of achieving PR status.

By the way dogcat, where you assuming Frou01 was alright? I thought Froud had a recent experience with this... But it actually makes more sense what Alterhase58 was saying: this has changed over the time (2015). I remembered people talking about not needing PR document in BC application but that can be in some very old threads, and also the documents seems to match with Alterhase58 is saying so...

And it make sense about not revoking Settle Status, but who knows with Home Office and their weird interpretation about laws... We can only trust on documents/guides or previous people experiences...

Good luck in your case Frou01! Hopefully you will be fine! Exactly the same as the rest of the people that have applied before the update on May You also made an update after the guide change, but hopefully that would be totally fine. The issue comes with people that have applied after... If there is any!!


By the way, anyone remembers for a Permanent Residence application if Home Office can start the qualifying year in the middle of the year? Or they only count FULL financial or natural years? (They only ask for P60's)
Because I would like to be taken in account my first half fiscal year too.

If anyone is experienced with PR, please, help me on this thread: https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 03507.html
I think most of the people experienced with PR are gone already

Thanks!

[Frou01]

Re. PR card requirement for naturalisation:
the requirement to have a document certifying permanent residence has been in place since 2015, and had to be held one year (just like ILR & Settled Status) from acquiring PR (except if PR was acquired more than five years before application then could be used immediately). And if spouse is British citizen then could apply immediately.

Thank you.

Thanks for clarifying Alterhase58.

Now I need to find out if I can apply for PR having Settle status. I'm in doubt because I found this:
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-ci ... ve-applied

If you already have an outstanding immigration application
In most cases, your outstanding immigration application will not be considered if you apply for the EU Settlement Scheme. You’ll get a refund for your outstanding application.
Contact UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) to find out how your outstanding immigration application will be affected.

And they actually ask me for any Home Office visa/document I've applied for and the number. So they are going to find out about my Settle Status straight away.

I might call the Home Office support line to ask about this... Unless anyone found something in an official guide? Or by someone's experience?

Assuming, you've been granted Settled Status, I don't think anybody is going to revoke it for you so you can then apply for PR card.

Why not just explain that you have been exercising treaty rights for 5 cont.years at some point and achieved PR status therefore there was no need for you to be exercising treaty rights past the point of achieving PR status.

By the way dogcat, where you assuming Frou01 was alright? I thought Froud had a recent experience with this... But it actually makes more sense what Alterhase58 was saying: this has changed over the time (2015). I remembered people talking about not needing PR document in BC application but that can be in some very old threads, and also the documents seems to match with Alterhase58 is saying so...

And it make sense about not revoking Settle Status, but who knows with Home Office and their weird interpretation about laws... We can only trust on documents/guides or previous people experiences...

Good luck in your case Frou01! Hopefully you will be fine! Exactly the same as the rest of the people that have applied before the update on May You also made an update after the guide change, but hopefully that would be totally fine. The issue comes with people that have applied after... If there is any!!


By the way, anyone remembers for a Permanent Residence application if Home Office can start the qualifying year in the middle of the year? Or they only count FULL financial or natural years? (They only ask for P60's)
Because I would like to be taken in account my first half fiscal year too.

If anyone is experienced with PR, please, help me on this thread: https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... 03507.html
I think most of the people experienced with PR are gone already

Thanks!

[Zozo27]

Hi guys

Hope you are well.

Just wondering if any anyone who applied after 15 May and could possibly be affected by the CSI requirement has received a reply from HO?

Thanks

[jpl]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to check in to provide another data point in case someone in a similar position to myself finds it useful.

I applied for naturalisation just after the new rules on Settled Status and CSI were published. While I did have CSI for the relevant parts of my qualifying period, the Home Office rejected my evidence for it (Form E104) when I applied for permanent residence. As a result, I was quite nervous about them rejecting my naturalisation application on the same basis, but I'm really relieved to say that I received my approval email today!

The conclusion I draw is that either (1) the Home Office is more willing to accept different types of evidence of CSI than they have in the past; or (2) the they rejected my evidence, but were lenient with respect to the requirement to have had CSI. I don't personally believe that they would apply a cutoff policy with respect to the date they published the new guidelines, but for what it's worth, I sent in my application the day after the guidelines were published.

Best of luck to those of you still waiting to hear back.

[uklondonn]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to check in to provide another data point in case someone in a similar position to myself finds it useful.

I applied for naturalisation just after the new rules on Settled Status and CSI were published. While I did have CSI for the relevant parts of my qualifying period, the Home Office rejected my evidence for it (Form E104) when I applied for permanent residence. As a result, I was quite nervous about them rejecting my naturalisation application on the same basis, but I'm really relieved to say that I received my approval email today!

The conclusion I draw is that either (1) the Home Office is more willing to accept different types of evidence of CSI than they have in the past; or (2) the they rejected my evidence, but were lenient with respect to the requirement to have had CSI. I don't personally believe that they would apply a cutoff policy with respect to the date they published the new guidelines, but for what it's worth, I sent in my application the day after the guidelines were published.

Best of luck to those of you still waiting to hear back.

Hi,
jpl thanks for your message!
If Home Office rejected your E104, what kind of evidence did you provide them after the rejection?
How big was/were your gap/s? (No employment)
Where you an student or self sufficient? Did you provide any more documentation to support your application (student or self sufficient periods)?

Thanks a lot!!

[vimaed]

On what grounds does the HO exercise discretion for you not having a CSI while being a student? I have been living in the UK since I was a a young child (2004) did school and finished university a year ago, got my settled status in May 2019. I want to apply for Citizenship but im afraid they will deny me on grounds of not having CSI while I was at university over the last 5 years.

Have anyone been successful with the home office granting discretion for not having CSI?