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Simpson8
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Registration - confused

Post by Simpson8 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:52 am

Hi, I'm new to this forum and hoping someone can help me.

Is registering the birth of a British citizen the same as being registered as a British citizen?

My mother was born outside the UK to British parents, her birth was registered at the local consulate and when they returned to Scotland, she was registered at Somerset House (the new Register House) in Edinburgh. Would this have changed her to british "otherwise than by descent"?

Thank you to anyone who can clear this up for me.

Mr Rusty
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Post by Mr Rusty » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:50 pm

I think your mother's place of birth inevitably classes her as "British by Descent."

Is it important?

Simpson8
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Post by Simpson8 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:10 pm

Thanks Mr Rusty,

It's not the end of the world, I was just hoping I would be able to register as a british citizen, under the UKM - I was born in Australia.

Does it make a difference that the UK had extraterritorial jurisdiction over her bith place at the time - I think?? She was born in Alexandria, Egypt in 1945.

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Frontier Mole
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Post by Frontier Mole » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:01 pm

The joys of the days of Empire!

Mother born in 1945 but returned to the UK when?

Was either of your grandparents Government employed in Egypt?

If so as what?

More than likely your mother is a full UK citizen given the immigration and nationality laws around in the 1950's & 60's. The devil will be in the detail.

Simpson8
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Post by Simpson8 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:20 am

Hi Frontier Mole, you have offered a little ray of light - it would be a nice surprise if she was.

To answer your questions;
1. She returned to the UK for holidays, but did not move back permanently until 1956 - for schooling and due to the Suez crisis. She did't move to OZ until her mid 20s

2, No, unfortunately neither of them were in crown service. My Grandpa worked as an accountant for a private company.

Thanks so much for your interest, this forum has already given me more information than phone calls to the high commission in Canberra.

JAJ
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Re: Registration - confused

Post by JAJ » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:28 am

Simpson8 wrote:Hi, I'm new to this forum and hoping someone can help me.

Is registering the birth of a British citizen the same as being registered as a British citizen?
No.

My mother was born outside the UK to British parents, her birth was registered at the local consulate and when they returned to Scotland, she was registered at Somerset House (the new Register House) in Edinburgh. Would this have changed her to british "otherwise than by descent"?
No.

Prior to 1983, a man who was a Citizen of the UK & Colonies by descent could not normally pass on that status to a child born outside the U.K. & Colonies (protectorates etc were not colonies).

However, there was an exception for birth in protectorates and similar territories.

As far as I can tell from searching, Egypt was a protectorate at one point in its history - between 1914 and 1922 - so unfortunately your mother was born too late for this. It's not in the Home Office lists:
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary

Unfortunately, you don't qualify for Right of Abode either because your mother was not born in the U.K.

You do appear to qualify for an Ancestry Visa.

There is an interesting quirk in the law ...

... As to whether your mother was CUKC by descent or not. She would only have become CUKC on 1 January 1949 (prior to that, British subject status was the norm). As a person born prior to 1949, she would have got her CUKC status under section 12(2) of the British Nationality Act 1948. Interestingly, section 12(8) of the Act states that only a male person getting CUKC this way could be a citizen by descent.

Hence your mother was not a CUKC by descent. However, you will struggle for this to benefit you because the wording of part of section 4C (the UKM provision) talks about whether you would have been entitled to CUKC at the time if women had been treated the same as men in terms of ability to pass on citizenship (or words to that effect). I suspect that the Home Office will not be generous in allowing the fact that your mother was technically CUKC otherwise than by descent (purely due to her gender) to give you an eligibility for UKM. You could of course choose to go to court but you might struggle there too as the courts would probably look at the intention of the UKM provision.

From 1983 your mother became a British citizen by descent, so no ambiguity from then on.

If she's not become an Australian citizen, she ought to consider taking that step now.

Simpson8
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Post by Simpson8 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:58 am

Wow, that's a lot of information - thanks JAJ.

The law is a complicated beast indeed.

Unfortunatly I don't qualify for an ancestry visa, as my grandparents weren't born in the UK either. My grandfather was born in Australia, his family were only here for 3 years and then returned to Scotland. My grandmother was also born in Alexandria, in 1907, although would spend only a few months there during the year and the rest of the time in Scotland.

I thought I may have found a loophole, due to british jurisdiction in Egypt from 1922 to 1949, but unfortunately not.

Like every other aussie, I will have to enjoy a working holiday visa.

Thanks again for your help.

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Frontier Mole
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Post by Frontier Mole » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:47 am

Sorry did not ask the obvious question - were the grandparents British - doh!
As they were not - you have already worked it out - you will have to stay a colonial cousin rather than a nice Brit Cit!

Be lucky :D

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