Children learning Irish

Jabout · Post by **Jabout** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:49 am

At what age do immigrant children from the U.K., coming to Ireland not have to learn Irish?

Post by **JAJ** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:12 am

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categ ... rom_irish/

also see: http://www.nui.ie/entry/

However, if the plan is to stay in Ireland and become Irish citizens in due course, they might wish to learn the language anyway even if technically exempt.

Post by **ca.funke** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:39 am

citizensinformation.ie wrote:The Department of Education and Science allows students in Ireland to apply to be excused from studying Irish in primary and post-primary school.

The circumstances in which a student will be given this exemption are very limited.

I've been living in Ireland for 6 years now, 4 of which in rural Tipperary and another 2 in Dublin. From Tipperary I took several trips to the "GaeltachtaÃ".

Not once

in all of this time did I hear anyone speak Irish. Not in pubs, not in the bus next to me... nowhere...

One exception: I do know two Irish citizens who actually really speak Irish. Ironically they were born and raised in Cork, not in a Gaeltacht. They speak Irish well enough to have normal decent conversations between them. Just to make the point they sometimes try to speak Irish in postoffices and other official scenarios. The response they usually get is confused looking people with big

's in their eyes. ("Are you speaking Polish to me?")

Don't get me wrong, I love languages, even more I love rare languages, but they should have at least some meaningful relevance. For example I know some "Luxemburgish" and "Swiss German", both of which actually help a great deal getting along in real life in these countries. Maltese is another example of a rare language which is heavily used in Malta, including daily and weekly newspapers.

Irish however is not used anywhere in real life. It is a nostalgic idea and a dream that it should be kept alive. My personal conclusion is that it is already dead. Something that is dead cannot be kept alive.

From an idealistic perspective I hope that my conclusion is incorrect and I will be proven wrong, however unfortunately I doubt it.

I would at all costs avoid forcing children to learn Irish, as there are beautiful alternatives which would prove a real help for the kids in the future.

In general I would consider Spanish and French. If your long-term perspective is in Ireland I would (seriously) consider Polish.

Learning Irish is a waste of energy, as it would be learned for the sake of learning it, nothing else.

In the light of my personal opinion I find it unbelievable to hear that I would have to "apply" for an "exception" for my (not yet existent) children, which would probably not even be granted.

This makes a lovely connection to >>this<< topic, as of course I would have my children learn Irish if the law obliges me to do so. (I still do not feel free to break the law at will, as the government of this state does.)

More likely, however, I will have removed myself from this jurisdiction before it could become relevant

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:24 pm

Irish however is not used anywhere in real life.

I suppose that it depends on where in the country you live. The Gaeltacht region of West Galway is still predominantly Irish-speaking, as are certain areas of Donegal, and I think Kerry as well. But, one only need to look at the stats to see that areas with official Gaeltacht status are rapidly diminishing.

I'm really torn on the Irish language issue. On the one hand, I think it's great to try to preserve a language. My husband and sister-in-law went to Irish-speaking schools, and my sister-in-law went on to get a degree from Trinity in Irish and she's now an Irish teacher. My husband, on the other hand, doesn't have much opportunity to speak it unless he's actually talking to his sister, which is a shame because he loves the language. He really wants our kids to learn it, and while I think it's a nice idea, I can't help but think it would be more useful for them to learn a language that will be useful to know outside of this little island.

Post by **JAJ** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:53 am

yankeegirl wrote: I'm really torn on the Irish language issue. On the one hand, I think it's great to try to preserve a language. My husband and sister-in-law went to Irish-speaking schools, and my sister-in-law went on to get a degree from Trinity in Irish and she's now an Irish teacher. My husband, on the other hand, doesn't have much opportunity to speak it unless he's actually talking to his sister, which is a shame because he loves the language. He really wants our kids to learn it, and while I think it's a nice idea, I can't help but think it would be more useful for them to learn a language that will be useful to know outside of this little island.

Isn't the theory at least that the advantage is for Irish citizens to have a means of communication for use between themselves that only they can understand?

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:25 pm

I'm so for the Irish language!! I can speak it very badly!! I'm ashamed to say!

I can not believe that I never learned to speak it fluently!! It would have helped me when I moved abroad...because peole who already have another language as well as their mother tongue find it easier to learn....languages in my experience!

I have a few friends abroad who went to Irish schools....and still speak Irish!

All my nieces in Ireland go to Irish schools and I plan to send my children there when I have some of course!!! LOL

bloody foreigner · Post by **bloody foreigner** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:50 pm

I totally agree with the idea of learning another language, it's the compulsion part that I disagree with, particularly for so called "dead" (or nearly dead) languages.
It has also been my experience that forcing someone to learn such a language can often cause resentment and resistance in the pupil. I'm not saying that is the case in Ireland.
It is interesting to note that, of those who voice support for learning Irish, most of them do so on the basis that it is fun or interesting, etc., not that it is necessary.
I agree with the comment from one participant that knowing another language makes it easier to learn a third. It also helps you to understand your first, for example; how many people realise that english has no second person plural ("you" for more than one person - could be yous?) How many had even thought about it?

Post by **ca.funke** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:20 pm

bloody foreigner wrote:how many people realise that english has no second person plural ("you" for more than one person - could be yous?) How many had even thought about it?

If I'm not mistaken, although it's not official, this actually exists in "Irish" English - and it's called "yee".

Most Irish say it this way, sometimes (of course not officially) it can even be found in writing

LuasPassenger · Post by **LuasPassenger** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:00 pm

ca.funke wrote:If I'm not mistaken, although it's not official, this actually exists in "Irish" English - and it's called "yee".

Most Irish say it this way, sometimes (of course not officially) it can even be found in writing

The "ye" pronoun is actually an archaic pronoun in English. However, it continues to be popular in Hiberno-English:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_(pronoun)

Post by **ca.funke** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:31 am

Hi LuasPassenger, thanks for the link! Very interesting to finally know more about that

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:35 am

I have to tell you I studied the TEFL course and as an English mother-tongue....I was ashamed that I had not got a clue!!! I think it is terible that they don't teach grammar any longer in the UK and Ireland....and have not done so in more than twenty years! Shame!!!

A friend of mine went for a teaching job in Denmark....she had to take a grammar exam before being allowed to teach! Out of all the people taking the exam she was the only one who failed! And she was the only native English speaker.......

But really how many of us know the conditional tenses? Or what is a Superlative????

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:10 pm

But really how many of us know the conditional tenses? Or what is a Superlative????

LOL! I didn't learn any of that in regards to the English language until I started taking French and Spanish when I was in high school.

Jabout · Post by **Jabout** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:19 pm

Well if the Irish economy continues to decline and emmigration from Ireland starts again, they may want to focus foremost on teaching their children languages such as Spanish, Arabic, Russian, Mandarin, Cantonese, or even German.

Teaching children dead languages such as Irish, Latin, or Navajo is failing them.

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Children learning Irish

Children learning Irish