Citizenship by "2 descents" - MN1 Section 3(2) - 3 year rule

[contented]

I am born abroad and a British citizen by descent (my mother is British). My younger daughter born, now 13, was also born abroad and has never lived in the UK. So is currently not British. We live in the EU so before brexit this was never an issue.

Now I would like for her to become British to avoid possible immigration issues later. It seems I can do this through section 3(2) of MN1. This section has a three year clause, as follows:

The British citizen by descent parent must have lived in the UK (or, if the child was born on or after 21 May 2002, in a British overseas territory) for a continuous period of 3 years at any time before the child’s birth. During that period they should not have absences exceeding 270 days. The application must be made whilst the child is under 18 years of age.
The 3-year residence requirement for the parent does not need to be met if the child is stateless.

The time when I lived in the UK for three years in one go is a long time ago and I don't have many records from then (more than 20 years ago). I am wondering what documents I should provide to prove my stay in the UK. I have work records, but they don't cover a full three year period (even though I was in the UK for three years). I also went to school and University in the UK so I could provide education certificates to cover that period, but I can't prove where I was living in the UK anymore. I can provide an address, but the only proof of me at that address is a council tax registration certificate for some of the period (my brother is registered there for the rest of the period, but not me).

Could someone advise on what sort of documents I could provide to prove I lived at an address or how this address will be checked in the UK, given that the UK has no requirement to register at your local council.

(Side note: My older daughter was born in the UK and is British automatically, but I don't think that would influence the application in anyway)

[HCJNL]

I registered my 9 year old son via Section 3(2) and it sounds as though my situation is very similar to yours. I am a British Citizen by descent, my wife is Polish and my son was born in the Netherlands, where we live.

I had educational certificates but, as you point out, there is no information about residence on them. As evidence I submitted primary school reports for a three year period, when I was aged 7 to 10, which my mother had kept. I also gave them my UK address during this 3 year period and told them that I did not travel outside the UK during this period, or even hold my own passport during that period. I did not provide any evidence concerning these points. My documents were accepted, and my child duly registered, without any requests for extra information.

TIP 1: You will need to send off your child's current passport, and will not get it back for several months. So if your child is entitled to an ID card, but does not have it yet, it is a good idea to obtain it before sending off your passport.

TIP 2: Before sending off your child's current passport, make a full copy of every page, including blank pages, before you do it. The reason is that you will need to send this off to the Passport Office when you apply for your child's first UK passport, together with the registration certificate, following registration. This way you will be able to apply for a UK passport as soon as you receive a registration certificate, without needing to wait for the return of the non-UK passport (which is always posted separately and usually arrives later, occasionally much later)

[contented]

Thank you for this great information. Our situations sound near identical.

Can I just double check: you simply entered the address you were living at during the qualifying period, without any other documentation? (eg ownership deeds or council tax documentation of your parents)

Can I ask you roughly how long ago you went through this procedure? Was it after Brexit? I am just asking this because I wonder if after Brexit they are getting more strict given the politics around immigration. It costs 1000 pounds and I am really concerned about proving residency at the address. It seems strange they don't require proof. (For 100 pounds I would just go ahead and apply!)

In any case thanks again for the info.

[secret.simon]

Can I ask you roughly how long ago you went through this procedure? Was it after Brexit? I am just asking this because I wonder if after Brexit they are getting more strict given the politics around immigration.

Nationality and immigration are governed by different laws and regulations. There has been no major change to nationality law as a result of Brexit.

Do you have any government issued correspondence (from the NHS, DWP, HMRC, etc) covering three continuous years?

[contented]

Do you have any government issued correspondence (from the NHS, DWP, HMRC, etc) covering three continuous years?

My time in the UK is patchy. I have worked there for several years so have things like P60 forms from the Inland Revenue, but never for a complete three year period. I can provide addresses, but not dates when I lived there beyond what is on the Inland Revenue forms. On these forms, I am missing about 3 months to cover the entire 3 years period, even though I lived at the address for longer!

I also lived in the UK whilst going to College and then University, so I can provide things like GCSE and A Level certificates as well my University Degree. This is a 5 year period at least. I can provide the address I lived at during that time, but have no proof of having actually lived there, except for the council tax records of me (covering 2 years) and my brother (covering an adjacent two years).

[HCJNL]

...you simply entered the address you were living at during the qualifying period, without any other documentation? (eg ownership deeds or council tax documentation of your parents)

Correct.

Can I ask you roughly how long ago you went through this procedure?

I applied for my son on 31 Oct 2020. His Registration Certificate is dated 7 Apr 2021

I wonder if after Brexit they are getting more strict given the politics around immigration.

A Section 3(2) registration is an entitlement. If your child qualifies he/she must be registered. It is not discretionary, like many other citizenship applications. So I would be surprised if Brexit makes a difference.

...I am really concerned about proving residency at the address. It seems strange they don't require proof.

Citizenship for your child depends on evidence of your 3 years residence in the UK before your child was born, not where you were living within the UK.

Ideally you provide proof of your last entry into the UK before the beginning of the 3 year period. Then proof of your movements in and out of the UK during the 3 year period, so they can see that you are within the 270 day limit for absences during the 3 year period. But even if you don't have proof, submit a list of your absences which is as complete as possible.

[contented]

It's so long ago, I have no documentation on my movements. I could come up with a guesstimate, but no more than that. Essentially they would have to take it on trust. I don't know how long they keep records for when you crossed the border for (if at all) for them to cross check my info.

I suppose I write all this info in a cover letter attached to the application?

[secret.simon]

If you are willing to move to the UK with the other parent and child, there is another, easier alternative.

If you, the other parent and the child move to the UK and live here for three continuous years, the child is entitled to be registered as a British citizen under Section 3(5), which confers British citizenship otherwise than by descent.

Registration under Section 3(2) only confers British citizenship by descent, which means that if your child had children outside the UK themselves, they would not be British citizens either. And because Section 3(2) requires the British grandparent to be a British citizen otherwise than by descent, your child's children born abroad (your grandchildren) will not be eligible to register as British citizens under Section 3(2) either.

[HCJNL]

the child is entitled to be registered as a British citizen under Section 3(5)

Good point. Such a move would need to take place before the child's 15th birthday.

In my case, we decided on the 3(2) route when my child was aged 9 because we knew that we had no desire to move to the UK, and were certain we would not change our minds before the child was aged 15.

It's so long ago, I have no documentation on my movements. I could come up with a guesstimate, but no more than that.

You could obtain proof of where and when you attended school, if you don't have school reports, by asking the school. During any 3 year period at school it is easy to show that you are very unlikely to have been outside the UK for more than 270 days, just by adding up the lengths of the school holidays.

[contented]

the child is entitled to be registered as a British citizen under Section 3(5)

Good point. Such a move would need to take place before the child's 15th birthday.

In my case, we decided on the 3(2) route when my child was aged 9 because we knew that we had no desire to move to the UK, and were certain we would not change our minds before the child was aged 15.

Yes, I had read that, but there is no chance of the family moving to the UK in any near future. I might like to retire there one day, especially if my kids end up there.

My immediate concern is that my younger daughter is able to study in the UK as a Home student with access to the lower fees. For my older daughter it is no problem, as she is British. For my younger daughter this doesn't appear to be possible unless she is also British (or else she would need ILR, which she does not have).

The alternative is that we pay the international fees for University, then if she lives there a few more years she can apply in her own right, rather than as a descendent.

But it sounds like I just need to apply with all the school reports that I have - I think my parents kept them all! As well as my University Diploma. It seems it should be OK even without proof of living at an address.

Thanks.

[HCJNL]

School reports did it for me I'm sure you will be fine. Good luck!

[secret.simon]

My immediate concern is that my younger daughter is able to study in the UK as a Home student with access to the lower fees. For my older daughter it is no problem, as she is British. For my younger daughter this doesn't appear to be possible unless she is also British (or else she would need ILR, which she does not have).

Keep in mind that there are residence requirements in addition to settled status requirements to have Home Student status.

Also see this thread on how British citizens living abroad may have restrictions on accessing resources within the UK.

[contented]

Keep in mind that there are residence requirements in addition to settled status requirements to have Home Student status.

(Sorry for going off topic a little here)

Yes, I have read that document as well. Ì thought being British is sufficient as I thought the only requirement my daughter would be missing was (g) no immigration restriction.

But now that I re-read this in fact point (a) is a problem, which states:

(a) you left the UK and exercised a right of residence before 11pm on 31 December 2020,
having already been settled in the UK
.
.
.
First, UK nationals and their family members who went to the EEA / Switzerland exercising
European rights of free movement as workers, students, self-sufficient people or as the family
members of any of those people

This applies to me an my older daughter, but my younger daughter was not born at that time! Does "family members" include unborn family members? My younger daughter never actually "left" the UK! Is it enough that I left the UK?