Switching EU visa type C to spouse visa

[jackiepham]

Hello,

I am currently on my visitor visa type C (<=90 days). I am an UK resident, have obtained pre-settled status and I am now on holidays with my Polish husband in Europe. We both are UK residents. Initial purpose was just to come to Europe for holidays.

Out of all suddent, my husband has just found a new job in Germany and we want to settle somewhere in Germany. We want to apply for a spouse visa right from here so that we don't need to go back to the UK when my current visa type C will expire in 1 month.

Is there any way to do it? Or I must go back to the UK and apply from there?

Many thanks,
Jackie

[ALKB]

Hello,

I am currently on my visitor visa type C (<=90 days). I am an UK resident, have obtained pre-settled status and I am now on holidays with my Polish husband in Europe. We both are UK residents. Initial purpose was just to come to Europe for holidays.

Out of all suddent, my husband has just found a new job in Germany and we want to settle somewhere in Germany. We want to apply for a spouse visa right from here so that we don't need to go back to the UK when my current visa type C will expire in 1 month.

Is there any way to do it? Or I must go back to the UK and apply from there?

Many thanks,
Jackie

You can apply in-country for a residence card for family members of EU/EEA nationals (Aufenthaltskarte). Provided you have all the necessary, like your marriage certificate. If this is from outside the EU, it may have to be apostilled.

You both have to register your residence at the local Bürgerservice - this has to be done every time you move within Germany and you have to un-register if you permanently leave Germany. This is a general requirement that also applies to German citizens.

You can be health insured on your husband's insurance through his work, there is no additional cost for family insurance. He can chose his health insurance provider freely.

Here is a link to the residence card application procedure in Berlin. Wherever you decide to go within Germany will have a very similar process:

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/

[jackiepham]

Thanks for the reply!

One more question, if we'd be unable to find an accomodation to rent out for long-term in Germany within this short time frame, would they be okay with us using a temporary address for the application, say Airbnb? Apparently my in-laws are in Poland so my husband always uses his parent's address if needed. So let's say when I apply for my visa, can I use my in-laws' address in Poland, together with my husband's employment contract in Germany?

Many thanks,
Jackie

[ALKB]

Thanks for the reply!

One more question, if we'd be unable to find an accomodation to rent out for long-term in Germany within this short time frame, would they be okay with us using a temporary address for the application, say Airbnb? Apparently my in-laws are in Poland so my husband always uses his parent's address if needed. So let's say when I apply for my visa, can I use my in-laws' address in Poland, together with my husband's employment contract in Germany?

Many thanks,
Jackie

You cannot use an address in another country to apply for an immigration status in Germany. Residence = a permanent address in Germany is one of the requirements. You can use his parents address when applying for a residence permit in Poland.

In order to register your residence, the landlord has to provide you with a signed form that confirms the date of your moving into the accommodation. If the AirBnB operates legally and you are staying for longer than a week, you can use a holiday let, AirBnB, etc. for registering. Just don't forget to re-register every time you move (usually within one week of moving but COVID has relaxed that a bit in most places) and to have your name on the letter box or add a "c/o" and the person's name that is on the letter box, otherwise, all correspondence will be undeliverable and you won't get your tax number, etc.

Try to search for 'Wohnen auf Zeit' in your desired area, that's people subletting their home while abroad.

[jackiepham]

Thanks so much! That's actually super helpful. Thanks,

[jackiepham]

Hello,
In case we are not able to find a place to register the address before my current visa expires on the 10th Oct, we both would have to go back to the UK together. Is it still possible for me to apply for the residence visa from the UK? Of course my husband and I will stick together all the way long but if it’s like that, how would we deal with the address matter when we would have to book online a hotel or Airbnb for a short term, for the sake of my visa application. Is it still okay?

Thanks so much for your help!!

[jackiepham]

And if, just if, we both would stay here in Schengen and find a permanent place to stay, which means my visa would be expired by then, would I get a fine/ be deported? Would it affect my records afterwards? We really don’t want that to happen so we are considering both options whether we should stay in Schengen together after my visa expires or going back to London together and I will apply from there?

Really confused right now and I would be forever grateful if you could help

[ALKB]

And if, just if, we both would stay here in Schengen and find a permanent place to stay, which means my visa would be expired by then, would I get a fine/ be deported? Would it affect my records afterwards? We really don’t want that to happen so we are considering both options whether we should stay in Schengen together after my visa expires or going back to London together and I will apply from there?

Really confused right now and I would be forever grateful if you could help

Here in Schengen? You mean in Germany? Or in another Schengen country?

If you stay in Germany and your husband works in Germany, it should not affect your immigration history under EU rules, but it's messy and ideally, you would register your residence before your visa expires and in any case before 90 days since your arrival are up! The 90 days since arrival also goes for your husband! Very important would be for your husband to start exercising treaty rights = start working. Of course you need to find a place to stay and he needs to enroll in the German health system and put you on his health insurance as a family member.

Where in Germany are you looking to stay?

He could also stay in Germany (why do you keep saying Schengen? Are other countries involved?), register, start working and you apply for a Schengen visa for EEA family members from the UK, showing his registration certificate and ideally a pay slip and a bank statement showing his salary going into his (German) bank account. The latter two are not really necessary for the application but very useful.

When does your visa expire and how far are you in the search for accommodation? When would your husband start work? Don't you have to go back to the UK anyhow or did you bring all your belongings along with you?

[jackiepham]

Hello, apologies for the late response and again, thanks so much for your help on this. It’s been a lot for us over the last few days.

After much consideration we’ve decided to reside in Poland for a short while before moving to Germany (to avoid the initial hassles). Highly chance that his company would allow him to work from home up to three month until I will have rights to stay here and we eventually find something in Germany and settle there. However it again has to be confirmed later to be sure 100%.

My visa will expire on the 10th October, so around 10 days left. We are on the way driving back to Poland. For what we have researched I can apply for the Temporary Residency to stay in Poland as a spouse of a Polish citizen before my current visa will expire, in one of the voievodeship offices in Wroclaw, Poland (where my husband registered his address). For your understanding do you think it would be possible in this case?

To be honest to you, moving back to Europe has been our long lasting wish and this time after staying almost 3 months here it has become more clear than ever that we both love to settle somewhere here. If applying for a temporary visa to stay in Poland is the most rational way to do it then we are happy to give it a try. The stuff in London we’re willing to give up with not much regret.

[ALKB]

Hello, apologies for the late response and again, thanks so much for your help on this. It’s been a lot for us over the last few days.

After much consideration we’ve decided to reside in Poland for a short while before moving to Germany (to avoid the initial hassles). Highly chance that his company would allow him to work from home up to three month until I will have rights to stay here and we eventually find something in Germany and settle there. However it again has to be confirmed later to be sure 100%.

My visa will expire on the 10th October, so around 10 days left. We are on the way driving back to Poland. For what we have researched I can apply for the Temporary Residency to stay in Poland as a spouse of a Polish citizen before my current visa will expire, in one of the voievodeship offices in Wroclaw, Poland (where my husband registered his address). For your understanding do you think it would be possible in this case?

To be honest to you, moving back to Europe has been our long lasting wish and this time after staying almost 3 months here it has become more clear than ever that we both love to settle somewhere here. If applying for a temporary visa to stay in Poland is the most rational way to do it then we are happy to give it a try. The stuff in London we’re willing to give up with not much regret.

In Poland, domestic immigration law would apply to you as spouse of a Polish national. I don't know much about Polish law, maybe somebody else can chime in here. As far as I know, you can apply in-country but since you can't claim the EU right of free movement, you probably have to apply before your Schengen visa expires. Maybe your husband could look up the relevant government web site since he speaks the language.

He might also want to check what kind of tax/social contributions he might or might not owe when residing in Poland but working for a German employer.

A quick google shows the requirement of submitting a recent copy of your marriage certificate that is no older than three months at the time of submitting your application for a residence permit as the spouse of a Polish national.

"REQUIRED DOCUMENTS

In the case of a temporary residence for family members of a Polish citizen (spouse), in addition to the basic documents referred to in the TEMPORARY RESIDENCE - GENERAL INFORMATION tab, the foreigner must also submit:

in the case of a spouse:

- a current copy of the marriage certificate (issued no earlier than 3 months before submitting the application);

- a copy of the spouse's ID card (original available for inspection);

- documents confirming living together and running a common household, including, for example, joint photos, a joint rental agreement or a deed of ownership of a common house / flat;"

Source:

https://www.migrant.info.pl/the-legal-s ... ldren.html

[jackiepham]

Thanks so much for responding

We married in Dec 2020 so defo it’s more than 3 months old. However we really doubt that bit of info. What if someone just came over to Poland and married a Polish citizen only for visa purpose? So we will check at the office once we reach Poland (tried to call them and email but so far no luck)

The purpose of all this is to buy us some more time until my husband will get his address registered and his job settled so I can follow him after. So the worst case if Poland rejects my application later on it’s still okay since I still can legally stay here until the final outcome issued.

Another option is to extent my current visa. We will go for whatever will work because we really don’t want to go back to the UK.

Perhaps someone from this forum with similar experiences can help? Thank you!

[jackiepham]

Hi ALKB (apologise I don't know your name ) I hope you're doing well.

I want to give you some updates on my case. We reached Poland as planned. We consulted a Polish professional lawyer and he said yes, I can totally apply for the Temporary Residence to stay longer in Poland. However, it can take up to 1 year or more and during this processing time, I would have to stay in Poland, which does not make sense since I know both me and my husband will reside in Germany. And also during this time they will actually come to our place and check if we are actually there. So it's quite risky.

So I boarded a flight heading back to the UK last week and now in quarantine. My husband for the time being is heading to Berlin, finding a flat for us and registering himself and at the same time working. All clearly show a chaotic train of thought I know

I flew back to the UK on the 5th Oct, so there are still 5 days left on my visa to spare and I can use them until Jan 2022. If when my husband will sort everything out in Berlin, I fly to Germany on the current visa type C and within these 5 days I register the residence in Berlin and once get it straight away apply for the 5 year residency, do you think it would work? This way my husband and I can stay together while waiting for the result of the application in Berlin. Last time you mentioned I can apply in-land and I am wondering if that'd be the case?

One more question, if my husband finds a flat, is it possible for the landlord to put both of my names on the contract if I am not physically there?

Thanks so much!
Jackie

[ALKB]

I flew back to the UK on the 5th Oct, so there are still 5 days left on my visa to spare and I can use them until Jan 2022. If when my husband will sort everything out in Berlin, I fly to Germany on the current visa type C and within these 5 days I register the residence in Berlin and once get it straight away apply for the 5 year residency, do you think it would work? This way my husband and I can stay together while waiting for the result of the application in Berlin. Last time you mentioned I can apply in-land and I am wondering if that'd be the case?

One more question, if my husband finds a flat, is it possible for the landlord to put both of my names on the contract if I am not physically there?

Thanks so much!
Jackie

You can do that. The tricky bit will be to get everything done quickly. Even though you would not be illegal after your visa expires, you would not have any documentary proof to show that and that would be a bit of a headache. So, it would indeed be good to get as much as possible done very quickly.

Berlin wasn't easy regarding appointments before the pandemic (three months waiting time were quite usual) and nowadays the online appointment booking system simply shows no appointments available at all. When my mother realised that her national ID card had expired, I set up my daughter (who was on a school break at the time, thankfully) to check the system every half an hour or so for cancelled appointments going live and book the first one that becomes available Berlin-wide (one does not need to go to a specific or the nearest 'Bürgeramt'). We managed to get my mother an appointment for next day but it was a bit of an operation to achieve that.

Also, the Berlin immigration department has split their services in two and as far as I know, this has made things easier and quicker for privileged nationalities and family members of EU nationals. Again, you will need to check the online booking system.

The landlord can put your name on the rental agreement but it's not necessary. The landlord should be informed that you are planning to move in at a later date, though. In any case, you will need a separate confirmation about your move-in date from the landlord to take to registration, as will your husband when he registers. You don't actually take the rental agreement to registration. Invest a few Euro into getting a sturdier registration certificate than the flimsy carbon copy thing you get automatically (where I live, they do that for everybody now, not sure about Berlin at this time) you will need the registration certificate a lot.

Registering:

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/120686/

Applying for residence card:

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/

[jackiepham]

Thank you so much! I found your information super helpful. My husband and I actually talked to a lawyer to day and paid a hefty amount but the info she gave was so little compared to yours.

So basically I would not be illegal even when my visa expires? Do you know for how long I can overstay? Let's say I get there and manage to get the anmeldung done, but then the appointment for the visa application might take few months. Although I will try to do exactly what your daughter did - refreshing the page every half an hour but well, we never know...

Also, do you think it's a good idea to book the visa appointment before hand, say, when I am still here in the UK? I already booked the anmeldung this morning for the 3rd Nov which was the earliest available at that moment. So if I can manage to get the visa appointment a day or 2 after that, would it be good?

Again, sending you a massive thank you.

[jackiepham]

"I already booked the anmeldung this morning for the 3rd Nov" >> Sorry my mistake here it's actually 3rd December

[ALKB]

Thank you so much! I found your information super helpful. My husband and I actually talked to a lawyer to day and paid a hefty amount but the info she gave was so little compared to yours.

So basically I would not be illegal even when my visa expires? Do you know for how long I can overstay? Let's say I get there and manage to get the anmeldung done, but then the appointment for the visa application might take few months. Although I will try to do exactly what your daughter did - refreshing the page every half an hour but well, we never know...

Also, do you think it's a good idea to book the visa appointment before hand, say, when I am still here in the UK? I already booked the anmeldung this morning for the 3rd Nov which was the earliest available at that moment. So if I can manage to get the visa appointment a day or 2 after that, would it be good?

Again, sending you a massive thank you.

Through EU freedom of movement, living where your EU husband lives (within the EU, outside any EU country he holds citizenship of) is a right, the residence card is not mandatory and just documentary evidence of that right, the card does not grant the right, it just confirms it.

Practically, convincing prospective employers, mobile phone providers and whomever else that 'yes, look at my marriage certificate and my registration, I have the right to live and work here, swearsies, please make the effort to look up EU legislation' will not work very well.

I had a look at the appointment system of the immigration department and the next available appointment was in early February 2022. At least pre-pandemic, one could show up there at 6am, queue for a number and wait there for however long it took to be seen. Personally, I'd try that but I am not sure they still do this under the current circumstances.

Booking the appointment within a few days of arriving should get you in the clear (you may want to carry that appointment confirmation around with you) but the lack of a residence card will probably make things a bit difficult for you.

I don't recall whether you have mentioned it before - what are your plans? Employment, self-employment, studying, taking a break?

[jackiepham]

Hello, thanks so much.
Yes I get your point. Totally makes sense. So I can just go to Germany, book an online appointment, say somewhere in Feb and then carry the confirmation, together with the marriage certificate and the registration and it should be fine.

I am going to take a break, and meanwhile, learning German - I already started but it would take a while to be good at the language so I am planning to focus on that for the first 6 months since I arrive. We are financially doing well so I don't need to rush.

One more thing, I heard that when going to register the anmeldung, I will have to carry my birth certificate. Is that right? If yes, do I have to transate it from English to German and get it stamped by local authority in Berlin? Same question to my marriage certificate. We married in London so it's in English.

Many thanks and have a lovely day

[ALKB]

Hello, thanks so much.
Yes I get your point. Totally makes sense. So I can just go to Germany, book an online appointment, say somewhere in Feb and then carry the confirmation, together with the marriage certificate and the registration and it should be fine.

I am going to take a break, and meanwhile, learning German - I already started but it would take a while to be good at the language so I am planning to focus on that for the first 6 months since I arrive. We are financially doing well so I don't need to rush.

One more thing, I heard that when going to register the anmeldung, I will have to carry my birth certificate. Is that right? If yes, do I have to transate it from English to German and get it stamped by local authority in Berlin? Same question to my marriage certificate. We married in London so it's in English.

Many thanks and have a lovely day

I certainly always carry my birth certificate when doing an Anmeldung/Ummeldung, since the register office and registration number of the certificate is entered into the system during the process but I don't think my husband, who was born in a non-EU country, was ever asked for his - it wouldn't have a German registration number to enter. Is there a lot to translate?

Marriage certificate is important and the authorities certainly can ask you to have it professionally translated. I married in Denmark and got an international version of the marriage certificate in Danish, German, English and French. Since you are in the UK right now, could you request something similar from the register office where you got married? Might make things a lot easier in the future.

[jackiepham]

Thank you. My birth certificate is very basic so not much to translate I believe. My parents already posted the original version to Germany but the delivery might take a while due to the COVID situation overthere. Once my husband gets it he will bring it to a professional translator in Berlin. My friend who is also Vietnamese and currently lives in Berlin said she didn't need it for the Anmeldung either, but the lawyer I was in contact with said I would need it. Anw, I will still bring it along to the office just in case.

Good point about the marriage certificate. I will contact the register office and ask them about it.

Many thanks. Wish you a nice day