Advice on very complicated case

[zain]

Hi all, I really appreciate if someone could kindly provide me an advice on my case as it is in very crucial stage.

I came here when I was 15yrs old on 31/10/1996 about 12yrs ago with my brother & mother and applied for a political asylum due to a religious persecution but i was minor and was depended on my mother.
To cut & simple my case was separated from my mother's case on my solicitors instruction in 1998.

So up till now my case has been completed been refused in fact it’s been refused from the tribunal as well my human right application has been refused as well.
The last letter I received from HO saying that “I do not have further rights to stay in UK so I will be deported and the deportation date will be informed soon". This letter came in couple of years ago and since then I have heard nothing from HO.

It will be appropriate to mention that I have been regularly attending my Weekly Reporting in Croydon since 2004.

The crucial part

Last year i got married (Islamic marriage) and my wife came here on a student visa and been studying regularly since then and now she is expecting a baby next month.

We haven't yet declared our marriage to HO and her visa is expiring in Dec.

My 2 queries are that would this affect my case & her case if we declare our marriage.

Thanks for taking a time out & reading.

Many Thanks

Zain

[Cosmopol]

This will not affect either of your cases, because neither of you has the right to stay in the UK (once her visa expires).

[zain]

This will not affect either of your cases, because neither of you has the right to stay in the UK (once her visa expires).

No but she would like to stay here and finish her studies, she had to stop her studies due to her condition but next year she will be submitting her final assignment which is agreed by her Uni.

So don't you the HO will object that why it wasn't been declared earlier?

[Cosmopol]

I hope any subsequent application she makes for a student visa will be judged on its own merits, with no reference to your situation. Should you come into the spotlight, it certainly wouldn't help, as raises doubts regarding her real motives, despite her studying record...

[Frontier Mole]

Where did you get married? If it was in the UK you are NOT married under UK law.

As you have no status and as she only has a limited leave to enter your relationship is meaningless. There is nothing to prevent you and her going home to PAK(?) as a family unit.

[tasha75]

As you have no status and as she only has a limited leave to enter your relationship is meaningless. There is nothing to prevent you and her going home to PAK(?) as a family unit.

FM, what is the HO position, if there is a child in the family and both parents are from different countries? Are they removed separately to their native countries? Where will the child go if father against child going to mother's country?

[tasha75]

zain, do you know if your case is a legacy case?

[Thandia]

Hi all, I really appreciate if someone could kindly provide me an advice on my case as it is in very crucial stage.

I came here when I was 15yrs old on 31/10/1996 about 12yrs ago with my brother & mother and applied for a political asylum due to a religious persecution but i was minor and was depended on my mother.
To cut & simple my case was separated from my mother's case on my solicitors instruction in 1998.

So up till now my case has been completed been refused in fact it’s been refused from the tribunal as well my human right application has been refused as well.
The last letter I received from HO saying that “I do not have further rights to stay in UK so I will be deported and the deportation date will be informed soon". This letter came in couple of years ago and since then I have heard nothing from HO.

It will be appropriate to mention that I have been regularly attending my Weekly Reporting in Croydon since 2004.

The crucial part

Last year i got married (Islamic marriage) and my wife came here on a student visa and been studying regularly since then and now she is expecting a baby next month.

We haven't yet declared our marriage to HO and her visa is expiring in Dec.

My 2 queries are that would this affect my case & her case if we declare our marriage.

Thanks for taking a time out & reading.

Many Thanks

Zain

Seeing as you claimed asylum before March 2007, you may want to contact the HO to check whether your case is a legacy one & to find out whether it has been allocated yet to a case reolution team. You probably are because I have yet to meet a failed asylum seeker pre March 2007 who isn't. Once you get confirmation, the HO may be able to give you the address of the team dealing with your case. I would reccommend you then contact an immigration advisor & get assistance as to how to send in further representation so that your case is considered positively. A positive response will get you ILR outside the rules. However, unless you're very confident in sending in further represantation yourself, please make sure you get specialist advice as I've already indicated. Good reasons to include are your length of stay in the UK, any educational &/or professional qualifications you've gained, how well you're integrating into your community, the birth of your child (this u really must be sure you want to include) & try & show that you will not be a burden but rather an asset etc etc. HTH.

As to the crucial part of your questions, I'm sorry I cannot assist in that regard.

[Frontier Mole]

As you have no status and as she only has a limited leave to enter your relationship is meaningless. There is nothing to prevent you and her going home to PAK(?) as a family unit.

FM, what is the HO position, if there is a child in the family and both parents are from different countries? Are they removed separately to their native countries? Where will the child go if father against child going to mother's country?

I am not bad at most immigration matters (I think) but I do not have a clue about the approach given the circumstances you put forward. I believe it would come down to a number of points-

The countries each party came from.
The nationality laws for those countries to see if the child was of X or Y or both nationalities.
The ability of either party to join the other in their respective countries.
The UKBA splitting families’ policy.
The ease of obtaining in country documentation to remove as a family unit for one country or the other.

The point about the father no wanting the mother to have the baby is outside the remit of UKBA - they would have to sort that out in the family courts.

No more questions like this one please

[vinny]

Stage 2: If (or assuming that) family life exists, will refusal / removal interfere with that family life - are there insurmountable obstacles to the family enjoying family life elsewhere?

[Cosmopol]

I am not bad at most immigration matters (I think) but I do not have a clue about the approach given the circumstances you put forward.
...
No more questions like this one please

I believe not every single situation has to have a single pre-scripted scenario in law or rules. That's why humans are employed fullt-ime, from IOs and HO case workers to judges.

Quite a number of cases will simply have to wait for their and be decided individually by an official using personal experience, discretion and assessing (hopefully) the full totality of the person's (persons') circumstances and the applicable law... This might be one of those.

[zain]

Where did you get married? If it was in the UK you are NOT married under UK law.

As you have no status and as she only has a limited leave to enter your relationship is meaningless. There is nothing to prevent you and her going home to PAK(?) as a family unit.

Thanks for replying!!

Actually I got married before she came to UK so basically i got married in Pakistan while me being in here then she came to UK.

[zain]

zain, do you know if your case is a legacy case?

Twice I have written to HO through my MP requesting them to consider me in legacy, but both time I was been sent a standard letter saying that they have dealth this many cases and this many are left over and they will look into my case as well.

The last correspondence I had was couple of months ago, since then I haven't heard anything.

Do you think it will be appropriate to write them again through my MP.

[Cosmopol]

Actually I got married before she came to UK so basically i got married in Pakistan while me being in here then she came to UK.

I guess this adds an extra twist to the case, and for practical purposes the marriage will not be recognised anywhere aside from Islamic legal systems...

[zain]

Actually I got married before she came to UK so basically i got married in Pakistan while me being in here then she came to UK.

I guess this adds an extra twist to the case, and for practical purposes the marriage will not be recognised anywhere aside from Islamic legal systems...

So what happens if we declare our marriage before she applied for a visa extension, what affects would it have on my case and on her?

What do u suggest??

[Cosmopol]

So what happens if we declare our marriage before she applied for a visa extension, what affects would it have on my case and on her?

What do u suggest??

I don't think you can "declare" it, as it probably isn't valid in the UK for legal reasons - that's what "not recognised" means. Marriage cannot be "declared" it has to be officially registered with a recognised authority, and be also legal under the laws of the country you are in. I.e., if you marry a seconf woman, it may be considered legal in some countries, but not in the UK - so will not exist for practical purposes.

I don't believe you are married in the eyes of the British law, hence there is nothing to declare, aside from a bona fide relationship and a child.

[zain]

So what happens if we declare our marriage before she applied for a visa extension, what affects would it have on my case and on her?

What do u suggest??

I don't think you can "declare" it, as it probably isn't valid in the UK for legal reasons - that's what "not recognised" means. Marriage cannot be "declared" it has to be officially registered with a recognised authority, and be also legal under the laws of the country you are in. I.e., if you marry a seconf woman, it may be considered legal in some countries, but not in the UK - so will not exist for practical purposes.

I don't believe you are married in the eyes of the British law, hence there is nothing to declare, aside from a bona fide relationship and a child.

So if i apply for Certificate of Approval while my Mrs applies for visa extension then what will happen?

[sonnyblack112]

sorry zain but just out of interest how is it you applied for asylum based on religious persecution if you are islamic and from pakistan where this denomination makes up the majority of the demographic?

[zain]

sorry zain but just out of interest how is it you applied for asylum based on religious persecution if you are islamic and from pakistan where this denomination makes up the majority of the demographic?

Well i belong to an Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and according to Pakistani government we are non muslims so basically we can not call ourselves muslim neither can we practice our religion.

[narmi]

sorry zain but just out of interest how is it you applied for asylum based on religious persecution if you are islamic and from pakistan where this denomination makes up the majority of the demographic?

Well i belong to an Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and according to Pakistani government we are non muslims so basically we can not call ourselves muslim neither can we practice our religion.

Hi Zain

I am regular reader of these two forum( immig board & uk resident). I am not expert in immig but i have following suggestions for you.

1.Did your other family get ILR?.

2.you need to get discuss your case with immig Specialist like Victoria from medivisa.

3.I believe recent house of lords decision in case of Beko-bett, and other three case (which i read in this frum) can helpful in your case. but discuss these cases with an expert and good luck

[4444]

sorry zain but just out of interest how is it you applied for asylum based on religious persecution if you are islamic and from pakistan where this denomination makes up the majority of the demographic?

Well i belong to an Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and according to Pakistani government we are non muslims so basically we can not call ourselves muslim neither can we practice our religion.

Hi Zain

I am regular reader of these two forum( immig board & uk resident). I am not expert in immig but i have following suggestions for you.

1.Did your other family get ILR?.

2.you need to get discuss your case with immig Specialist like Victoria from medivisa.

3.I believe recent house of lords decision in case of Beko-bett, and other three case (which i read in this frum) can helpful in your case. but discuss these cases with an expert and good luck

the recent house of lords judjements will not help coz none of them is settled so there wont be any inteference with family life so the prorpotionality issue will not come into play. Frontier Mole is right.

[zain]

Unfortunately my question is still unanswered; do you guys think that my Mrs. should go ahead and apply for an extension and then after that we should request for a Certificate of Approval.

But in this case when will be the status of my child, does my Mrs. needs to inform HO as soon as we have a baby and wouldn't they object having him in here while she is on a student visa??

Please clarify these questions to me.

Many Thanks

[vinny]

If her leave to enter/remain is running out and she wants to continuing studying, then she should apply for an extension.

See also Babies born in the UK.