Contacting INIS/changing permissions online.

[meself2]

Hi everyone,

I am currently holding Stamp 4 on conditions that are no longer valid, tied to a family member. I would like to stay in the country as I'm doing an ILEP degree programme.
Looking at this link https://www.irishimmigration.ie/registe ... ermission/ , I see that there is an option for Stamp 1 holders to change to Stamp 2 visa online. I applied to do so, putting Stamp 2 as my stamp for renewal and explaining my situation in "Additional details" field.
Today I got a refusal letter stating that since my permission is tied to a family member, he needs to renew it first and all.
I tried to contact them by email but all I got is a generic reply that all permissions are extended till January 15th, 2022 (mind you, there is a next extension in place already) and they just closed my ticket.
How do I even contact INIS and what can I do in this situation, if anyone has any ideas? Thanks.

[meself2]

Tried to contact them via other methods.

Emailed: immigrationsupport@justice.ie once again - just gave me an automatic reply and closed my query straight after without human involvement it seems. Feels like they have a bot that, if IRP is mentioned, just sends an automated reply and closes the ticket. By the way, these letters were classified as spam initially, so check your spam folders when you rmail them and expect a reply.
Unit 1 - no autoreply, no response at all at the moment.
Unit 2 - got an autoreply instantly, they responded in 2 hours asking to contact unit 1, as this is about Student permission. Asked for clarification as I considered it to be a permission change query, got another reply (even 2, from 2 different people), stating that basically "Unit 2 only processes complex change of status applications", which is not the case for me. Fair enough and, honestly, kudos to them for replying quickly and efficiently.

Phoned Burgh Quay Freephone (1800741741) in hopes to get an appointment and sort it out there, but it just doesn't work, hangs up almost as soon as it's dialed. If anyone has any tips about contacting them, please let me know.
Hope that'll help someone who tries to deal with similar issues.

[littlerr]

Stamp 4 holders are not allowed to change to stamps with a lesser privilege without authorisation from the relevant department that issued your stamp 4.

You said your stamp is tied to a family member. Is it based on your spouse who is Irish? Has the relationship broken down? Have you informed SOIN unit about this? And have they issued you a letter acknowledging the change of situation and allowing you to obtain a different permission?

[meself2]

Stamp 4 holders are not allowed to change to stamps with a lesser privilege without authorisation from the relevant department that issued your stamp 4.

Didn't know that, thanks!

You said your stamp is tied to a family member. Is it based on your spouse who is Irish? Has the relationship broken down? Have you informed SOIN unit about this? And have they issued you a letter acknowledging the change of situation and allowing you to obtain a different permission?

Dependent of a STEP program permission holder (which can no longer be prolonged). DoJ is notified, got a letter from them saying we can "see our website for information on permissions to reside in the State".

Does it mean I need to get my permission from scratch, as a first-time appointment, so there are no ties to previous permission?

[littlerr]

Stamp 4 holders are not allowed to change to stamps with a lesser privilege without authorisation from the relevant department that issued your stamp 4.

Didn't know that, thanks!

You said your stamp is tied to a family member. Is it based on your spouse who is Irish? Has the relationship broken down? Have you informed SOIN unit about this? And have they issued you a letter acknowledging the change of situation and allowing you to obtain a different permission?

Dependent of a STEP program permission holder (which can no longer be prolonged). DoJ is notified, got a letter from them saying we can "see our website for information on permissions to reside in the State".

Does it mean I need to get my permission from scratch, as a first-time appointment, so there are no ties to previous permission?

Once you have an IRP number assigned, you can no longer be treated as a new applicant. They are always 'renewals' irrespective of whether you are looking to get the same or different stamp.

I'm not familiar with the STEP programme so I honestly don't know how that particular department works. Usually, dependents' permissions are solely based on their sponsors - if their sponsor is no longer eligible for the permission, the dependent loses their permission as well and usually will have to apply for new application from outside of Ireland, even if the dependent is now studying or working full time and may qualify for a student/work permission. So I guess that's why they are saying that your sponsor's permission has to be renewed first, but that's just my speculation.

You also said that you have got a letter from them. What exactly does the letter say? Does it say you can have seek for independent permissions? If not, you will need to get a new letter that confirms that. Have you contacted that department directly? Their email address is startup@justice.ie.

[meself2]

First off, thanks a ton for all this information!

Once you have an IRP number assigned, you can no longer be treated as a new applicant. They are always 'renewals' irrespective of whether you are looking to get the same or different stamp.

What I meant by renewal is that when you apply for a permission on this new INIS Dublin website, there is only an option to renew your permission, not register for the first time (which is understandable, I guess). I was wondering if I can do it online or I have to come into Burgh Quay and show all the stuff again. According to this link, Stamp 1 holders can renew online, while Stamp 3 people must come in person, hence the confusion. If you don't have an answer to that, its' totally fine, as the system is relatively new I guess.

Usually, dependents' permissions are solely based on their sponsors - if their sponsor is no longer eligible for the permission, the dependent loses their permission as well and usually will have to apply for new application from outside of Ireland, even if the dependent is now studying or working full time and may qualify for a student/work permission. So I guess that's why they are saying that your sponsor's permission has to be renewed first, but that's just my speculation.

Seems like you're right, most likely.

You also said that you have got a letter from them. What exactly does the letter say? Does it say you can have seek for independent permissions? If not, you will need to get a new letter that confirms that. Have you contacted that department directly? Their email address is startup@justice.ie.

The letter is addressed to the main permission holder, saying "as you no longer meet the criterion under STEP this office cannot renew you or your family members included in your application residence permissions under this programme.
Please see our website for information on permissions to reside in the State. Please also see D for information no permissions to work in the State".
I was assuming the last part allows us to apply for other permissions. Is it just a standard line that they add to all letters?

[littlerr]

What I meant by renewal is that when you apply for a permission on this new INIS Dublin website, there is only an option to renew your permission, not register for the first time (which is understandable, I guess). I was wondering if I can do it online or I have to come into Burgh Quay and show all the stuff again. According to this link, Stamp 1 holders can renew online, while Stamp 3 people must come in person, hence the confusion. If you don't have an answer to that, its' totally fine, as the system is relatively new I guess.

You can actually see that for any permission changes that require a visit to Burgh Quay, it is all because the person needs to change their permission from an independent permission to a dependent permission, so an officer has to verify that this sponsor actually exists. For everyone else, the use of online renewal platform is sufficient. You can, of course, try and book an appointment for Burgh Quay and visit them in person (which may help you explain the issue to them better), but it shouldn't be required and it may not change the outcome I'm afraid.

The letter is addressed to the main permission holder, saying "as you no longer meet the criterion under STEP this office cannot renew you or your family members included in your application residence permissions under this programme.
Please see our website for information on permissions to reside in the State. Please also see D for information no permissions to work in the State".
I was assuming the last part allows us to apply for other permissions. Is it just a standard line that they add to all letters?

Yes it is just a typical standard line, but you can try and upload that letter as part of the renewal application. Explain the situation that your sponsor has lost the permission and that you have got this letter which mentions that you can look for alternative permissions. No guarantee whether it would work though, as it is not an explicit confirmation from the department that you can look for alternative permissions.

[meself2]

What I meant by renewal is that when you apply for a permission on this new INIS Dublin website, there is only an option to renew your permission, not register for the first time (which is understandable, I guess). I was wondering if I can do it online or I have to come into Burgh Quay and show all the stuff again. According to this link, Stamp 1 holders can renew online, while Stamp 3 people must come in person, hence the confusion. If you don't have an answer to that, its' totally fine, as the system is relatively new I guess.

You can actually see that for any permission changes that require a visit to Burgh Quay, it is all because the person needs to change their permission from an independent permission to a dependent permission, so an officer has to verify that this sponsor actually exists. For everyone else, the use of online renewal platform is sufficient. You can, of course, try and book an appointment for Burgh Quay and visit them in person (which may help you explain the issue to them better), but it shouldn't be required and it may not change the outcome I'm afraid.

The letter is addressed to the main permission holder, saying "as you no longer meet the criterion under STEP this office cannot renew you or your family members included in your application residence permissions under this programme.
Please see our website for information on permissions to reside in the State. Please also see D for information no permissions to work in the State".
I was assuming the last part allows us to apply for other permissions. Is it just a standard line that they add to all letters?

Yes it is just a typical standard line, but you can try and upload that letter as part of the renewal application. Explain the situation that your sponsor has lost the permission and that you have got this letter which mentions that you can look for alternative permissions. No guarantee whether it would work though, as it is not an explicit confirmation from the department that you can look for alternative permissions.

I see, thanks once again!
I'll reach out to startup@justice.ie to see if they can provide such letter (hopefully, that will be dealt with by the end of this week as it gives me two chances to apply). I'll share anything useful I come across in this thread.

[meself2]

it's been three weeks, progress made: none
unit 1 and startup@justice.ie never reached out to me, not even an auto-reply. Emailed investmentandstartup@justice.ie recently as kind of a shot in the dark and got at least an auto reply promising they'll get back to me in a month (20 working days). Hopefully they aren't busy! But yeah, it might be the case that startup@justice.ie is not really monitored, who knows.
Will send a chaser of some sort in a month since my first email as I've got no other options.
In the meantime, if anyone got a response from immigrationsupport@justice.ie ticket, please share the text. No idea why, but all my queries are getting a standard auto-reply text in 15 minutes or so after I send them (saying IRP will take 15 days to arrive and so on) and being closed straight after.

[meself2]

Month passed, no reply to my emails whatsoever. The only think that came to my mind is to send a letter to them via post, as time is ticking, so did that and waiting again. Not even sure what else to do now (if someone has any ideas, please fire away, if not, thanks for being with me on this journey!).

[meself2]

Physical letter helped, got a permission! Seems like it was the way to go all along. What I learned from it:

- Unit 1 never came back to me via email while it was their area of responsibility, which is not very nice.
- Main registration support email probably has their filters on word "application"? Not sure, but got a letter without this word without getting an auto-reply and closure of the ticket.