Recent experiences with travelling AFTER ceremony?

[jsanc]

Have been given such a run around by all the agencies & calls. My situation is that I need to travel very soon after my ceremony, but before I can feasibly get my British passport. It's either that, or I won't be able to make the ceremony deadline since I need to be abroad for about 2 months. I have a stamp ILR (not a BRP) which isn't required to be sent back or cut up.

UKVI general helpline gave mixed advice. Some said you cannot hold ILR along with citizenship, so your ILR becomes invalid after you attend your ceremony. Some said since it's a stamp, it should be fine, others said they don't know. They advised me to call Border Force.

I did, after 300 attempts finally got to speak to someone at Manchester Airport Border Control, who very confidently told me that yes, in fact you can travel with your foreign passport, your naturalisation certificate, and your ILR, since they will be able to see it in the system and confirm your status. You might be asked to sit aside for a bit while they check, but they can check and it won't be a problem.

On the other hand, the guidance notes for nationality policy does say if you are required to be temporarily abroad you should be given an extension (p22-23)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... als_v4.pdf

So I've also applied to citizenship.support for an extension but obviously they reply notoriously slow, so I need to make a decision very soon: do I attend the ceremony and travel with my naturalisation certificate and ILR, or do I travel without attending the ceremony, and wait for an extension?

Anybody has any recent experiences like this or advice? Many thanks in advance.

[secret.simon]

Some said you cannot hold ILR along with citizenship, so your ILR becomes invalid after you attend your ceremony.

That bit is correct. A British citizen can't hold any form of leave to remain, whether limited or indefinite.

in fact you can travel with your foreign passport, your naturalisation certificate, and your ILR, since they will be able to see it in the system and confirm your status.

This sounds about right. Your ILR vignette and naturalisation certificate serve different purposes if you are returning in this manner.

Your ILR vignette will be used by your airline to allow you to board (your naturalisation certificate will not matter to airline staff). Once you arrive at the UK airport, you will need to present yourself to the Border Force staff, who can check the details of your naturalisation certificate and let you into the UK (here the ILR vignette is useless as you no longer hold ILR after your citizenship ceremony).

On the other hand, the guidance notes for nationality policy does say if you are required to be temporarily abroad you should be given an extension (p22-23)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... als_v4.pdf

Depends on the reason given for the absence. And an absence from the UK of more than 6 months would trigger the application to be reassessed as to whether you continue to meet the future intentions requirement.

If the applicant asks for an extension of time and gives an acceptable reason, an extension of up to 3 months may be allowed (or whatever longer period may be justified by the reason given for the request).
...
(if this is a naturalisation case under section 6(1) of the BNA 1981, any absence of 6 months or longer may affect the applicants ability to meet the future intentions requirement and the case should be referred to a Senior Caseworker)

[AmazonianX]

The border control personnel at airport you spoke with gave you sound practical advice.
Other forum members in similar situation were advised in line with what you were told and besides slight time of wait at PoE for IO to check and confirm their status and story watch, reentry into UK was smooth.

[jsanc]

Depends on the reason given for the absence. And an absence from the UK of more than 6 months would trigger the application to be reassessed as to whether you continue to meet the future intentions requirement.

I am only away fro 2 months and it is a required work trip. I am requesting an extension of 2 weeks, in fact I have been emailing them two months ago since I knew the delay in hearing back from application means I would not be able to apply for a passport in time, but they simply haven't responded in any helpful way. They only confirmed that my application was granted and that the deadline would be before I come back to the UK, and then said "if you still need an extension contact us no more than 3 weeks earlier to the deadline" which makes 0 sense if you need to adjust travel plans to fit within the deadline. Hence the stress!


Right now my options are basically:

- attend ceremony before I travel and hope that I will be allowed to board with the documents as described by the border force
or
- wait for the extension to come through and if it doesn't for whatever reason, fly back before the deadline at exorbitant costs and make my colleagues all run around like headless chickens (it's a group work trip and everyone is needed for a different part)

The main concern I have with option 1 is that I remember seeing somewhere on the home office website (can't find it now) that the naturalisation certificate is not a proof of travel document or something like that, which border force says yes, you need a passport for travel, okay, but also in the nationality policy it says "Once you have completed the naturalisation process, you will no longer be able to enter the UK using your BRP or by presenting your citizenship certificate at the UK border." Is naturalisation certificate the same as the citizenship certificate mentioned here? Will the naturalisation certificate be enough to prove my citizenship status and entry clearance at the border?

It is confusing. Has anyone ever had citizenship ceremony extensions granted to them, or heaven forbid, refused (for what reason)?

[newuser198]

i am in the same situation and hoping that naturalisation certificate is the citizenship certificate and planning to use that to get back into UK. But reading the UKVI documents, it does say we cannot use the naturalisation certificate to reenter, which is kinda worrying.

[alterhase58]

i am in the same situation and hoping that naturalisation certificate is the citizenship certificate and planning to use that to get back into UK. But reading the UKVI documents, it does say we cannot use the naturalisation certificate to reenter, which is kinda worrying.

First of all the certificate is not a travel document.
You can use it in conjunction with a valid foreign passport to support your assertion that you are a British citizen. As you know, a British citizen cannot be refused entry to the UK, though it may take a bit longer without a British passport.

[Ticktack]

Depends on the reason given for the absence. And an absence from the UK of more than 6 months would trigger the application to be reassessed as to whether you continue to meet the future intentions requirement.

I am only away fro 2 months and it is a required work trip. I am requesting an extension of 2 weeks, in fact I have been emailing them two months ago since I knew the delay in hearing back from application means I would not be able to apply for a passport in time, but they simply haven't responded in any helpful way. They only confirmed that my application was granted and that the deadline would be before I come back to the UK, and then said "if you still need an extension contact us no more than 3 weeks earlier to the deadline" which makes 0 sense if you need to adjust travel plans to fit within the deadline. Hence the stress!


Right now my options are basically:

- attend ceremony before I travel and hope that I will be allowed to board with the documents as described by the border force
or
- wait for the extension to come through and if it doesn't for whatever reason, fly back before the deadline at exorbitant costs and make my colleagues all run around like headless chickens (it's a group work trip and everyone is needed for a different part)

The main concern I have with option 1 is that I remember seeing somewhere on the home office website (can't find it now) that the naturalisation certificate is not a proof of travel document or something like that, which border force says yes, you need a passport for travel, okay, but also in the nationality policy it says "Once you have completed the naturalisation process, you will no longer be able to enter the UK using your BRP or by presenting your citizenship certificate at the UK border." Is naturalisation certificate the same as the citizenship certificate mentioned here? Will the naturalisation certificate be enough to prove my citizenship status and entry clearance at the border?

It is confusing. Has anyone ever had citizenship ceremony extensions granted to them, or heaven forbid, refused (for what reason)?

Not sure how else you want this to be explained to you. But I'd give it one more go to the multiple breakdowns you already have above.

You can travel and enter into the UK with you ILR still. The airlines would carry you.
When you get to the UK, you might have a problem at the POE.
At this juncture, you naturalisation certificate comes into play (which you also need to have with you). It proves that you're a Brit. It's not a travel document, but it proves to a fellow compatriot that you're welcomed here. So they let you in. Probably with a warning not to do it again and go get your British Passport or ROA.

[jsanc]

Not sure how else you want this to be explained to you. But I'd give it one more go to the multiple breakdowns you already have above.

You can travel and enter into the UK with you ILR still. The airlines would carry you.
When you get to the UK, you might have a problem at the POE.
At this juncture, you naturalisation certificate comes into play (which you also need to have with you). It proves that you're a Brit. It's not a travel document, but it proves to a fellow compatriot that you're welcomed here. So they let you in. Probably with a warning not to do it again and go get your British Passport or ROA.

I think like many people who are worried about this, we have trouble believing that this is an allowed option, since it is not made explicit on Home Office guidance and many websites & even UKVI advises you to simply not travel while you are waiting for your passport. But I completely agree from logic & legality pov, this should be allowed. Does not mean the worry dissipates though -- does not "feel" we have the right to anything yet at this juncture, just stuck in limbo.

But you are right. I personally think the border force advice is sound as well, and the poor souls at the UKVI helpline really doesn't know anything beyond the very basics of what's available online. They basically told me travel with ILR afterwards isn't possible and they also said naturalisation certificate cannot be used as a travel document and when I ask in combination can that work they say they have no idea. And everyone else just refers you back to them so it's hopeless.

[newuser198]

i am in the same situation and hoping that naturalisation certificate is the citizenship certificate and planning to use that to get back into UK. But reading the UKVI documents, it does say we cannot use the naturalisation certificate to reenter, which is kinda worrying.

First of all the certificate is not a travel document.
You can use it in conjunction with a valid foreign passport to support your assertion that you are a British citizen. As you know, a British citizen cannot be refused entry to the UK, though it may take a bit longer without a British passport.

Understood, thank you very much.And yes, i am going to use my BRP to travel out and use the certificate the border to get into UK.

[newuser198]

Not sure how else you want this to be explained to you. But I'd give it one more go to the multiple breakdowns you already have above.

You can travel and enter into the UK with you ILR still. The airlines would carry you.
When you get to the UK, you might have a problem at the POE.
At this juncture, you naturalisation certificate comes into play (which you also need to have with you). It proves that you're a Brit. It's not a travel document, but it proves to a fellow compatriot that you're welcomed here. So they let you in. Probably with a warning not to do it again and go get your British Passport or ROA.

I think like many people who are worried about this, we have trouble believing that this is an allowed option, since it is not made explicit on Home Office guidance and many websites & even UKVI advises you to simply not travel while you are waiting for your passport. But I completely agree from logic & legality pov, this should be allowed. Does not mean the worry dissipates though -- does not "feel" we have the right to anything yet at this juncture, just stuck in limbo.

But you are right. I personally think the border force advice is sound as well, and the poor souls at the UKVI helpline really doesn't know anything beyond the very basics of what's available online. They basically told me travel with ILR afterwards isn't possible and they also said naturalisation certificate cannot be used as a travel document and when I ask in combination can that work they say they have no idea. And everyone else just refers you back to them so it's hopeless.

very true, UKVI just simply read back the rule book and perhaps thats what they are instructed to do so. However, your conversation with border force is quite appealing and looks at the logical angle of how one must be validated at the entry. Hopefully, things should go smooth.. i will update here on first week of june thats when i am planning to return back.

[jsanc]

i am in the same situation and hoping that naturalisation certificate is the citizenship certificate and planning to use that to get back into UK. But reading the UKVI documents, it does say we cannot use the naturalisation certificate to reenter, which is kinda worrying.

First of all the certificate is not a travel document.
You can use it in conjunction with a valid foreign passport to support your assertion that you are a British citizen. As you know, a British citizen cannot be refused entry to the UK, though it may take a bit longer without a British passport.

I have the same worry as the person above, but yes, it's because the document doesn't specify which part of travel naturalisation certificate cannot be used for. *Of course* it can't be used as a travel document, but that is a moot point because it's very unlikely you lose your foreign passport as soon as you are granted citizenship, so many like us will still have a valid passport, and we want to know whether naturalisation certificate can be used in lieu of a visa which after the ceremony would have expired. This is not explicitly stated anywhere, one way or another. That's why it's confusing.

Has anyone run into trouble with doing this before? What exactly could they do if they think this is not okay? It will take a while for me to believe I can't be refused entry into my home country lol my previous country can refuse you whenever and wherever they want :,)

[jsanc]

i am in the same situation and hoping that naturalisation certificate is the citizenship certificate and planning to use that to get back into UK. But reading the UKVI documents, it does say we cannot use the naturalisation certificate to reenter, which is kinda worrying.

First of all the certificate is not a travel document.
You can use it in conjunction with a valid foreign passport to support your assertion that you are a British citizen. As you know, a British citizen cannot be refused entry to the UK, though it may take a bit longer without a British passport.

Understood, thank you very much.And yes, i am going to use my BRP to travel out and use the certificate the border to get into UK.

No wait, I feel obliged to point out that the guidance does say you need to cut up and post the BRP in 5 days after the ceremony otherwise you run the risk of incurring a fine. I don't have a BRP as I have a stamp in my passport so it's a different issue, but I don't want anyone else to get into trouble based on different situations. (You might still be able to do that though, I don't know)

[jsanc]

Not sure how else you want this to be explained to you. But I'd give it one more go to the multiple breakdowns you already have above.

You can travel and enter into the UK with you ILR still. The airlines would carry you.
When you get to the UK, you might have a problem at the POE.
At this juncture, you naturalisation certificate comes into play (which you also need to have with you). It proves that you're a Brit. It's not a travel document, but it proves to a fellow compatriot that you're welcomed here. So they let you in. Probably with a warning not to do it again and go get your British Passport or ROA.

I think like many people who are worried about this, we have trouble believing that this is an allowed option, since it is not made explicit on Home Office guidance and many websites & even UKVI advises you to simply not travel while you are waiting for your passport. But I completely agree from logic & legality pov, this should be allowed. Does not mean the worry dissipates though -- does not "feel" we have the right to anything yet at this juncture, just stuck in limbo.

But you are right. I personally think the border force advice is sound as well, and the poor souls at the UKVI helpline really doesn't know anything beyond the very basics of what's available online. They basically told me travel with ILR afterwards isn't possible and they also said naturalisation certificate cannot be used as a travel document and when I ask in combination can that work they say they have no idea. And everyone else just refers you back to them so it's hopeless.

very true, UKVI just simply read back the rule book and perhaps thats what they are instructed to do so. However, your conversation with border force is quite appealing and looks at the logical angle of how one must be validated at the entry. Hopefully, things should go smooth.. i will update here on first week of june thats when i am planning to return back.

Huh so you are already outside the UK? Already attended your ceremony? In that case do let us know how it goes, I'd be interested to find out.

[newuser198]

Not sure how else you want this to be explained to you. But I'd give it one more go to the multiple breakdowns you already have above.

You can travel and enter into the UK with you ILR still. The airlines would carry you.
When you get to the UK, you might have a problem at the POE.
At this juncture, you naturalisation certificate comes into play (which you also need to have with you). It proves that you're a Brit. It's not a travel document, but it proves to a fellow compatriot that you're welcomed here. So they let you in. Probably with a warning not to do it again and go get your British Passport or ROA.

I think like many people who are worried about this, we have trouble believing that this is an allowed option, since it is not made explicit on Home Office guidance and many websites & even UKVI advises you to simply not travel while you are waiting for your passport. But I completely agree from logic & legality pov, this should be allowed. Does not mean the worry dissipates though -- does not "feel" we have the right to anything yet at this juncture, just stuck in limbo.

But you are right. I personally think the border force advice is sound as well, and the poor souls at the UKVI helpline really doesn't know anything beyond the very basics of what's available online. They basically told me travel with ILR afterwards isn't possible and they also said naturalisation certificate cannot be used as a travel document and when I ask in combination can that work they say they have no idea. And everyone else just refers you back to them so it's hopeless.

very true, UKVI just simply read back the rule book and perhaps thats what they are instructed to do so. However, your conversation with border force is quite appealing and looks at the logical angle of how one must be validated at the entry. Hopefully, things should go smooth.. i will update here on first week of june thats when i am planning to return back.

Huh so you are already outside the UK? Already attended your ceremony? In that case do let us know how it goes, I'd be interested to find out.

I have attended the ceremony and leaving UK on Friday and aiming to be back on first week of June. Will keep this thread posted on the outcome .

[AmazonianX]

It will go easier than you imagine.

[jsanc]

I have attended the ceremony and leaving UK on Friday and aiming to be back on first week of June. Will keep this thread posted on the outcome .

Many thanks. May I also ask whether your old passport ie the one you are travelling with is one that grants entry to the UK normally? Eg European passports or Australian or US etc. because these passports normally grant visitor entry to the Uk anyway so that might be easier.

Best of luck friend.

[jsanc]

It will go easier than you imagine.

I found a border force official reply to a freedom of info request on this issue which states it’s up to the border officer to decide and naturalisation certificate alone might not constitute as enough evidence of your citizenship. You can imagine the fear that puts into anyone who’s ever lived under a regime where one person/officer decisions can literally affect your life. I’m yet undecided what to do and don’t I know how ridiculous this is? Yes, but such the nature of people who come from countries where citizens have no inherent rights.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... tish_passp

[alterhase58]

When we had the long passport delays last year many EU citizens were forced down that route. Clearly if you are nervous about this consider changing plans and wait for your passport.
A single officer cannot strip you of British citizenship.

[jsanc]

When we had the long passport delays last year many EU citizens were forced down that route. Clearly if you are nervous about this consider changing plans and wait for your passport.
A single officer cannot strip you of British citizenship.

Yes but remember EU passports have the right to entry into the UK in any case, so they can’t be stopped at the border even if they just present their passport. For other nationalities this is not the case, you need a visa to enter and that is where the conundrum ie: you can’t apply for a visa because you are technically a British citizen, but you might not be able to prove that with the naturalisation certificate alone. Due to the way home office works, if anyone is stuck in this situation I don’t see how this can be resolved in a timely manner. Will probably end up a hot red
in the newspaper or something lol.

I am currently waiting for clarification on when the deadline actually is — 90 days from the receipt of email or from when the paperwork is issued (about two weeks earlier usually). My council seems to think it’s the latter, since apparently there is a deadline date printed on the paperwork, but all the info I got through email and gov.uk all say it’s 90 days from receipt of email. That two weeks literally makes a difference as to whether I need to change plans or not — stressful, because HO never replies on time!

[newuser198]

I have attended the ceremony and leaving UK on Friday and aiming to be back on first week of June. Will keep this thread posted on the outcome .

Many thanks. May I also ask whether your old passport ie the one you are travelling with is one that grants entry to the UK normally? Eg European passports or Australian or US etc. because these passports normally grant visitor entry to the Uk anyway so that might be easier.

Best of luck friend.

I hav Indian passport, so without a valid visa i wouldn't be able to enter into UK. Hoping that the naturalisation certificate is going to help with that. But after reading the comment from Border force (in that link u shared), now i am doubtful whether or not should i take the risk and travel:( . i might be let in to UK, but i might also incur the fine for holding the BRP still. Does anything think starting the british passport application now and then finish it later would be of any help, atleast i can show that i am willing to get the passport sooner, but due to the wait of 10 weeks, i decided to travel with my BRP and get back into UK with naturalisation certificate?

[jsanc]

I have attended the ceremony and leaving UK on Friday and aiming to be back on first week of June. Will keep this thread posted on the outcome .

Many thanks. May I also ask whether your old passport ie the one you are travelling with is one that grants entry to the UK normally? Eg European passports or Australian or US etc. because these passports normally grant visitor entry to the Uk anyway so that might be easier.

Best of luck friend.

I hav Indian passport, so without a valid visa i wouldn't be able to enter into UK. Hoping that the naturalisation certificate is going to help with that. But after reading the comment from Border force (in that link u shared), now i am doubtful whether or not should i take the risk and travel:( . i might be let in to UK, but i might also incur the fine for holding the BRP still. Does anything think starting the british passport application now and then finish it later would be of any help, atleast i can show that i am willing to get the passport sooner, but due to the wait of 10 weeks, i decided to travel with my BRP and get back into UK with naturalisation certificate?

Well you need to mail in your old passport when you apply for a British passport so you can’t travel in any case. I will say that I am now leaning towards travelling with naturalisation certificate simply because we essentially have two types of entry document: either we are British citizens and can prove so with our naturalisation certificate, or our ILR is still valid because ILR only becomes invalid/irrelevant when you become a British citizen. They can’t say well you can’t prove both because it’s literally either/or.

Not sure how the fine goes but I don’t think border force people are in charge of issuing that, wrong department lol

[secret.simon]

@jsanc & @newuser198, I think that you are confusing two very separate issues.

You will need either a BRP or a visa vignette in your passport or a passport of a visa-free country to get onto a plane or boat to get back to the UK. The naturalisation certificate is useless for that purpose. The absence of the three above will prevent you from even getting to the UK border. And waving the naturalisation certificate in the face of airline staff will not affect anything.

On the other hand, once you make it to the border, showing your naturalisation certificate will cause a delay, but you will be allowed in, once the naturalisation certificate is authenticated by referencing Home Office databases, which the UK Border Force would have access to. At that point, visa vignettes and BRPs are irrelevant.

The two situations are entirely separate and you would need different documentation for both.

I hav Indian passport, so without a valid visa i wouldn't be able to enter into UK.

You will be allowed into the UK if you can get to the border. The point is that without a BRP, you won't be allowed to board the flight back, something entirely different. India is not a visa-free passport country, so it won't be easy to get onto the flight itself.

either we are British citizens and can prove so with our naturalisation certificate, or our ILR is still valid because ILR only becomes invalid/irrelevant when you become a British citizen.

Again, different documents required at different stages of the journey.

Also see this recent thread.

[newuser198]

@jsanc & @newuser198, I think that you are confusing two very separate issues.

You will need either a BRP or a visa vignette in your passport or a passport of a visa-free country to get onto a plane or boat to get back to the UK. The naturalisation certificate is useless for that purpose. The absence of the three above will prevent you from even getting to the UK border. And waving the naturalisation certificate in the face of airline staff will not affect anything.

On the other hand, once you make it to the border, showing your naturalisation certificate will cause a delay, but you will be allowed in, once the naturalisation certificate is authenticated by referencing Home Office databases, which the UK Border Force would have access to. At that point, visa vignettes and BRPs are irrelevant.

The two situations are entirely separate and you would need different documentation for both.

I hav Indian passport, so without a valid visa i wouldn't be able to enter into UK.

You will be allowed into the UK if you can get to the border. The point is that without a BRP, you won't be allowed to board the flight back, something entirely different. India is not a visa-free passport country, so it won't be easy to get onto the flight itself.

either we are British citizens and can prove so with our naturalisation certificate, or our ILR is still valid because ILR only becomes invalid/irrelevant when you become a British citizen.

Again, different documents required at different stages of the journey.

thank you very much! i still have my BRP with me as i had the ceremony only last week. Even though the rule state that i have to send the BRP back within 5 days, i am holding it still so that i can use it for travelling out of UK in this situation. And thanks for clarifying the procedure at the border on my way in. i will present my naturalisation certificate to get into UK.

[AmazonianX]

@jsanc & @newuser198, I think that you are confusing two very separate issues.

You will need either a BRP or a visa vignette in your passport or a passport of a visa-free country to get onto a plane or boat to get back to the UK. The naturalisation certificate is useless for that purpose. The absence of the three above will prevent you from even getting to the UK border. And waving the naturalisation certificate in the face of airline staff will not affect anything.

On the other hand, once you make it to the border, showing your naturalisation certificate will cause a delay, but you will be allowed in, once the naturalisation certificate is authenticated by referencing Home Office databases, which the UK Border Force would have access to. At that point, visa vignettes and BRPs are irrelevant.

The two situations are entirely separate and you would need different documentation for both.

I hav Indian passport, so without a valid visa i wouldn't be able to enter into UK.

You will be allowed into the UK if you can get to the border. The point is that without a BRP, you won't be allowed to board the flight back, something entirely different. India is not a visa-free passport country, so it won't be easy to get onto the flight itself.

either we are British citizens and can prove so with our naturalisation certificate, or our ILR is still valid because ILR only becomes invalid/irrelevant when you become a British citizen.

Again, different documents required at different stages of the journey.

thank you very much! i still have my BRP with me as i had the ceremony only last week. Even though the rule state that i have to send the BRP back within 5 days, i am holding it still so that i can use it for travelling out of UK BRP not needed for you to travel out of UK,it is needed at departure country by airline to carry you and from then onwards BRP job is finished, the IO is none the wiser that you still have as at this point its the naturalisation cert you will present in this situation. And thanks for clarifying the procedure at the border on my way in. i will present my naturalisation certificate to get into UK. Yes

[Ticktack]

Well you need to mail in your old passport when you apply for a British passport so you can’t travel in any case. I will say that I am now leaning towards travelling with naturalisation certificate simply because we essentially have two types of entry document: either we are British citizens and can prove so with our naturalisation certificate, or our ILR is still valid because ILR only becomes invalid/irrelevant when you become a British citizen. They can’t say well you can’t prove both because it’s literally either/or.

Not sure how the fine goes but I don’t think border force people are in charge of issuing that, wrong department lol

Once you make to the UK border, they have to let you in.

I'll digress a bit.

British nationals travelling from the UK don't need a passport to visit Ireland (Not to talk of entering back into the UK). However, Irish immigration officers will check the ID of all passengers arriving by air from the UK and may ask for proof of nationality, particularly if you were born outside the UK.

So if you were born in the UK before 1983, you could potentially enter Ireland with a Drivers license.

Your naturalisation certificate trumps any thing an IO thinks. Worst case, he'd have to check with his manager. Sometimes, the crazy check delays also depends on what airport you're entering from. Luton airport is probably one of the worst.