2004/38/EC and non-EU spouse of cross-channel commuter

[trocadero]

Does anyone know whether a UK citizen who resides in France but commutes back to the UK to work for 4 days each week can exercise treaty rights under article 7. 1. (b) of directive 2004/38/EC?:

"[EU citizens may stay if they] have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on
the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State"

The information I've found on 7 1. (b) advises retirees how to use it and suggests pension documents as evidence.

I'm a UK citizen with a non-EU husband and we would like to move to France in the coming year. I'm a freelancer and my work suits cross-channel commuting. My husband is French-speaking and French-educated and would like to work in France. Can he do so with 7.1.(b)?

Many thanks

[86ti]

Does anyone know whether a UK citizen who resides in France but commutes back to the UK to work for 4 days each week can exercise treaty rights under article 7. 1. (b) of directive 2004/38/EC?

It is quite common actually in border areas to live in one country but work in another. I think to be resident in one country you must be there for more than 183 days. If you stay 4 days a week in the UK that might not work out. Another point to consider is maybe taxation that may or may not affect residency.

Obviously, I don't know much about this problem but I would be interested in an answer too.

[Ben]

Hi trocadero,

In accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC, your spouse is entitled to reside in the country in which you reside. Therefore, if you reside in France (on a self-sufficient basis, being that you work in another Member State), your spouse is entitled to reside with you in France.

Being that he will be resident in accordance with the provisions of the Directive, he will be permitted to work, to study, or to set up a business.

Note that you are both required to hold health insurance, being that you will not be working in France.

[Richard66]

Your situation has beed forseen. You need to look at your rights as a cross-border worker. Take a look here:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/workingpa ... ary_en.htm

[trocadero]

Thanks to all for your responses. The Paris Town Hall website provides information on how EU citizens can formalise the exercise of their treaty rights:

http://www.servicepubliclocal.com/spl/a ... 112/F12017

I would need to apply for a carte de séjour "CE - non actif" and my husband for a "CE - membre de famille - toutes activités professionnelles". As benifa said, we would need to show evidence of health insurance and sufficient resources - at least the equivalent of French minimum wage for the duration of our intended stay.

Has anyone on these boards been through this application process in France?

86ti is right that working in one country and living in another will complicate tax affairs. I understand that a lot of cross-border workers are tax resident in the country where they work. The "CE - non actif" may force me to be tax resident in France - I'm not sure - but we need it so that my husband can work there.

Thanks

[86ti]

One more thing. If the husband works wouldn't he be paying for health insurance and wouldn't the health insurance extend to trocadero?

[Richard66]

I think you should inform yourself better before you take unessessary steps. I do not believe corss-border woekers are resident in two countries, besides that, there are tax agreements between almosdt all bordering countries.

Have you read the link I sent you?

[Ben]

Have you read the link I sent you?

I'm not sure if the date at the very end of that document is correct, but if it is, it's over 11 and a half years old!

That's not to say that much of the information is not still valid and accurate, mind..

[trocadero]

Hi Richard66

Yes I have read the link that you sent but I don't see anything that would remove the need for us to get cartes de sejour in order for my husband to work in France. Can you explain why you think this is unnecessary?

Thanks
trocadero

[Richard66]

I am not saying you do not need them; I am saying cross-border workers have a special status and I am not sure the Prefecture de Police in Paris is the best entity to contact for this information.

Another thing, you, as an EEA national, are not required to hold a French residence card, but normally you would need to register at the local Mairie. There is a fine for non- compliance.

I remember something about 5 days in one country for work not constituting residence in that country, but it was speaking about Switzerland.

[86ti]

I remember something about 5 days in one country for work not constituting residence in that country, but it was speaking about Switzerland.

That was one of the countries that I had in mind.

If you commute daily over the border but come back in the evening you don't live in the country of your work place so obviously no residence. My understanding, however, is that trocadero would stay in the UK while at work. Is that right?

The problem I see here is that trocadero needs to be resident in France so that her husband can be there under EU laws.

[Ben]

If you commute daily over the border but come back in the evening you don't live in the country of your work place so obviously no residence.

Actually, if trocadero were a citizen of a Member State other than the UK, she would be resident when at work in the UK, according to Directive 2004/38/EC. The Directive makes clear that the presence of a Union citizen, in a Member State, is an exercise of his or her right to reside:

Right of residence for up to three months
1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a
period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to
hold a valid identity card or passport.

Therefore, if trocadero were a citizen of a Member State other than the UK, she would be resident in the UK every time she sets foot in the country. However, since trocadero is a UK citizen and, importantly, she would not be exercising a Treaty right in France in an economic capacity, "Surinder Singh" conditions would not apply, and so she would not be covered by the provisions of the Directive when returning to the UK (to work or otherwise). In short, therefore, whether or not she is "resident" in the UK, when returning there for work, would be dependent on UK national laws regards residency (and I am not family with that).

The problem I see here is that trocadero needs to be resident in France so that her husband can be there under EU laws.

The Directive has answered this also:

1. Without prejudice to the second subparagraph, the Union citizen's death or departure from the
host Member State shall not affect the right of residence of his/her family members who are
nationals of a Member State.

This provision is important to trocadero, as it ensures that whenever she departs France to go to work in the UK, the right of residence of her family members, in France, is not lost.

[86ti]

The problem I see here is that trocadero needs to be resident in France so that her husband can be there under EU laws.

The Directive has answered this also:

1. Without prejudice to the second subparagraph, the Union citizen's death or departure from the
host Member State shall not affect the right of residence of his/her family members who are
nationals of a Member State.

This provision is important to trocadero, as it ensures that whenever she departs France to go to work in the UK, the right of residence of her family members, in France, is not lost.

But couldn't

2. The validity of the residence card shall not be affected by temporary absences not exceeding six months a year, or by absences of a longer duration for compulsory military service or by one absence of a maximum of twelve consecutive months for important reasons such as pregnancy and childbirth, serious illness, study or vocational training, or a posting in another Member State or a third country.

be interpreted in such a way that to be considered resident you have to stay a certain amount of time in the host country? I am referring here to 4 days in the UK per week assuming staying there continously during this time.

[Ben]

But couldn't

2. The validity of the residence card shall not be affected by temporary absences not exceeding six months a year, or by absences of a longer duration for compulsory military service or by one absence of a maximum of twelve consecutive months for important reasons such as pregnancy and childbirth, serious illness, study or vocational training, or a posting in another Member State or a third country.

be interpreted in such a way that to be considered resident you have to stay a certain amount of time in the host country? I am referring here to 4 days in the UK per week assuming staying there continously during this time.

You may have something here, 86ti. It all depends on the French implementation on the Directive.

However, so long as the periods of residence in France occur while trocadero is exercising a Treaty right, the French cannot deny her husband's right to reside. It would be unreasonable, then, to revoke his Residence Card simply because trocadero works in the UK four days a week.

[Richard66]

Being absent 4 days out of 7 will not affect the spouse's right of residence.

I have not understood some things:

If you and your spouse are already resident in France, how come you seem to be in the dark about French formalities? Or are you still in the UK and thinking to relocate to France?

I am trying to find information on cross-border workers.

[Richard66]

Being absent 4 days out of 7 will not affect the spouse's right of residence.

I have not understood some things:

If you and your spouse are already resident in France, how come you seem to be in the dark about French formalities? Or are you still in the UK and thinking to relocate to France? Is your spouse in the UK with you?

I am trying to find information on cross-border workers.

[trocadero]

The original post answers Richard66's question:

[quote="trocadero"]
I'm a UK citizen with a non-EU husband and we would like to move to France in the coming year. I'm a freelancer and my work suits cross-channel commuting. My husband is French-speaking and French-educated and would like to work in France. Can he do so with 7.1.(b)?
[/quote]


86ti & benifa, It's reassuring to know that Directive 2004/38/EC Article 11 offers some additional protection to my husband's situation once he has a residence card.

[trocadero]

The original post answers Richard66's question:

[quote="trocadero"]
I'm a UK citizen with a non-EU husband and we would like to move to France in the coming year. I'm a freelancer and my work suits cross-channel commuting. My husband is French-speaking and French-educated and would like to work in France. Can he do so with 7.1.(b)?
[/quote]


86ti & benifa, It's reassuring to know that Directive 2004/38/EC Article 11 offers some additional protection to my husband's situation once he has a residence card.

[Richard66]

Indeed, I need to learn reading. Sorry, Trocadero!

[Richard66]

I found this, maybe it helps:

http://europa.eu.int/eures/main.jsp?lan ... =&orgId=15

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/it/c ... html#126_3