Apply outside or inside?

[MorningStarMC3]

Hi,

Person A = Is British national
Person B = is EU Citizen
Both living together in France for 4 years
Both want to live permanently in UK

Person A starts job in UK, in December 2023, with 25k slary.
Person B has no finances, no professional skills.
Person B wants to leave France and travel to UK with Person A in December

QUESTION:
Is it best that Person B waits in France (maybe 2 or 3 months) while there is already accomodation, and apply from 'outside'? Or, does Person B go to UK with Person A in December, and apply from 'inside' UK? (NOTE: If person B goes to UK in December, Person B wil lose accomodation in France).

Thank you for your help!

[meself2]

On what basis will person B apply inside UK?

They can't switch to spouse visa if they're in the UK as a visitor.

[MorningStarMC3]

Hi meslf2,

<<On what basis will person B apply inside UK?>>

That's a good question (I'm still learning!). At the moment it would appear that a Spouse Visa would be the thing. I read the following from one of the many websites offering immigration paperwork services:

"..A Spouse Visa or Partner Visa (also known as the Family of a Settled Person Visa), enables a national from outside the UK to enter or remain in the UK with their partner. An applicant must be married, cohabitating or in a civil partnership with a British national or someone who is settled in the UK. This visa route offers a path towards settlement in the UK or Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). This allows an individual to remain in the UK permanently, and if desired, it also allows them to apply for British Citizenship. In order to successfully apply for this visa, you must meet a number of requirements. This includes general and financial requirements, along with more specific requirements surrounding your relationship..."

Reading this, they have cohabitation for 4 years so this would appear to be the way to go (unless this fact is wrong?)

[meself2]

They can apply for a spouse visa if they're cohabiting long enough indeed.
But they can't do it inside UK.
https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa

When you cannot get a family visa
In some circumstances you cannot apply for, or switch to, a family visa

You have a visitor visa or a visa for 6 months or less
You’ll usually need to leave the UK to apply for a family visa if either:

you have permission to be in the UK as a visitor
your visa is for 6 months or less

[MorningStarMC3]

Hi meself2,

That webpage is a bit confusing because it says in the section "APPLY AS A PARTNER OR SPOUSE", and under the section: "HOW LONG YOU CAN STAY" (on the same page) it says, quote: "You can stay in the UK for 2 years and 9 months on this visa."

Again, on the same page, it is only if they're applying as, quote: "fiancé, fiancée or proposed civil partner... after this you’ll need to apply to extend your stay...".

So, to me it reads, if you're just coming across with a partner you've been living with for 2+years, you can stay for 2 years and 9 months, but if you're engaged you can only stay for 6 months?

Have I missed something here, as that doesn't make sense..

[meself2]

Hi meself2,

That webpage is a bit confusing because it says in the section "APPLY AS A PARTNER OR SPOUSE", and under the section: "HOW LONG YOU CAN STAY" (on the same page) it says, quote: "You can stay in the UK for 2 years and 9 months on this visa."

Again, on the same page, it is only if they're applying as, quote: "fiancé, fiancée or proposed civil partner... after this you’ll need to apply to extend your stay...".

So, to me it reads, if you're just coming across with a partner you've been living with for 2+years, you can stay for 2 years and 9 months, but if you're engaged you can only stay for 6 months?

Have I missed something here, as that doesn't make sense..

The way it works is that if someone wishes to marry in UK (and they usually don't have 2+ years cohabitation), they apply for a fiance/e visa (which allows to stay for 6 months), so they can facilitate the wedding; once the marriage is done, the newlywed spouse can apply for a spouse visa, which, in turn, allows them to stay for 2 years and 6 months (2 years and 9 months is for overseas applications I think).

If you're already living together for 2+ years, you're free to apply for spouse visa straight away.

[MorningStarMC3]

Hi meself2,

Thanks for the clarification, that now makes sense.

So, just to be clear: Both Persons A and B (sorry, see first post again) could enter the UK in December, then Person B could apply 'inside', but still stay in the UK for 2 years and 9 months. This person 'B' would not have to leave the UK during that period. Of course, they'd need to re-apply to go to the next stage in the process after, but that's further down the line and can be dealt with then.

In brief, we don't want Person B to go to the UK in December, only to find 6 months later they need to come back to France, because then, they would be giving up their French property and there would be no place for them to live whilst an application is being processed. However, it looks like from what you're saying, applying as a 'partner or spouse' means they can let go of the property and join Person A in December for 2 years and 9 months..

Does all that sound logical?

[meself2]

Both Persons A and B (sorry, see first post again) could enter the UK in December, then Person B could apply 'inside', but still stay in the UK for 2 years and 9 months.

I do not understand how do you think it is feasible.

Person B, assuming they're going there just on the strength of their EU passport, will be admitted into the UK as a visitor. But, as you can see in my previous message in this topic, you cannot switch to a spouse visa while being in the UK as a visitor.

[Ticktack]

What need to happen is person A(Brit) needs to travel to the UK and get a job paying £18,600 and above. Work that job for 6 months (because B needs evidence of that)
Person B (EU) can enter and exit the UK throughout this period (not more than 6 months), but not legally living here (just visiting). No NHS, just as a visitor, for up to 6 months.

After A get 6 months worth of payslips. Person B needs to exit the UK, to apply from France or anywhere else, but preferably France because of accommodation and familiarity with terrain.
Application could take 8-12 weeks or more. Once spouse visa is granted, B can move to the UK.

[MorningStarMC3]

Because in Post 3, you asked "<<On what basis will person B apply inside UK?>>

and I said:
".. it would appear that a Spouse Visa would be the thing, because I'd read on one of the websites offering immigration paperwork services that an applicant must be married, cohabitating or in a civil partnership"

to which you replied:
"They have cohabitation for 4 years so this would appear to be the way to go.."

So I'm confused why, if earlier posts it appears she can apply for a Spouse Visa (as a long time cohabitant), but you're saying that she would have to go on a Vistor Visa.

Could you please clarify? Apologies if I've missed something..

[meself2]

You cannot apply for a spouse visa if you're in the UK as a visitor - post2133894.html#p2133894. When person B will go to UK, they will be considered a visitor there (since UK allows visa free visit for their passport for tourism). They would not be able to apply for inside the UK because of it.

They need to apply outside of the UK, as mentioned by Ticktack above.

[MorningStarMC3]

Hi, and thank you both (apologies Ticktac, I missed your post)

I checked again what you are saying on the GOV website and I cannot see any reason why she cannot apply for a Family Visa:

APPLY AS A PARTNER OR SPOUSE:
YES - you and your partner both need to be 18 or over
YES - Your partner must be a British or Irish citizen
YES - You and your partner must intend to live together permanently in the UK after you apply.

WHAT YOU’LL NEED TO PROVE: (YOU MUST BE ABLE TO PROVE ONE OF THE FOLLOWING:)
YES - you’ve been living together in a relationship for at least 2 years when you apply
YES - You also need to prove you have a good knowledge of English

NO - IF YOU’RE APPLYING AS A FIANCÉ, FIANCÉE OR PROPOSED CIVIL PARTNER
(Because "If you’re applying as a fiancé, fiancée or proposed civil partner, you can stay for 6 months."

HOW TO PROVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP:
YES - All bills/shared house over 4+ years

HOW LONG YOU CAN STAY:
"You can stay in the UK for 2 years and 9 months on this visa"

HOW TO APPLY:
Person B is still in France so:
A - They can apply 'outside' (France) and wait. Or...
B - They can travel to the UK in December and apply 'inside'

When you look at Person B's criteria, compare that to what is written on the .GOV website, I cannot see anything that would prevent Person B from applying for a 'Family Visa' and gettibng the 2 years and 9 months.

Again apologies if I'm missing something really obvious here...??

[Casa]

You cannot switch to any other visa from within the UK (including a Settlement Visa) if you currently hold one of the visa categories below:
visit visa
short-term student visa
parent of a child student visa
seasonal worker visa
domestic worker visa

Over the years, we have seen many examples from forum members who attempted to remain in the UK on a visitor visa and then apply for a Settlement visa, without leaving.

This is a very long and bumpy path, with high legal costs to fight the inevitable refusal by the Home Office, with little chance of success

The intention to marry in the UK or to form a civil partnership, requires a fiance visa which grants a maximum stay of 6 months and which could then be extended for a further 2.5 years once the marriage/partnership ceremony has taken place.
Providing all of the settlement criteria is met.

Alternatively, for those who wish to marry or form a civil partnership but have no intention to remain in the UK following the ceremony, they would apply for a Marriage Visitor visa which grants a maximum stay of 6 months; which again doesn't lead to settlement.

[MorningStarMC3]

Hi Casa and thanks for taking the time to reply,

I think something's getting lost in transalation so forgive me if I'm msiunderstanding. But no switch is required because this person is currently outside of the UK, with no VISA application yet made. Maybe this thread is getting too long and some of the details are getting lost so, to re-cap:

1: Person B lives outside of the UK
2: Person B has not yet made any type of Visa application
3: Person B fulfills (100%) all criteria (details in my previous post) for a Family Visa

So my questions is:
Can you see any reason why this person isn't able to apply for a Family Visa?

Thank you Casa.

[Casa]

HOW TO APPLY:
Person B is still in France so:
A - They can apply 'outside' (France) and wait. YES Or...
B - They can travel to the UK in December and apply 'inside' NO

Again apologies if I'm missing something really obvious here...??

The confusion is in your previous post (immediately prior to mine) You appeared to be continuing to ask if 'B' could apply for a settlement visa from within the UK while there as a visitor.

Therefore I clarified this for you, as many have tried to do in this now lengthy thread.

[meself2]

Person B fulfills (100%) all criteria (details in my previous post) for a Family Visa

First if all, not all criteria are outlined on this specific page - it's split into sections. There's also a requirement to provide knowledge of English (do a test or if they did a degree in English, get it accredited); also person A must show they either have enough savings (which is some rather big amount, others will advise) or work for 6 months in the UK, earning more than a certain amount under taxes. Eg section in income - https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income

Can you see any reason why this person isn't able to apply for a Family Visa?

This whole thread was about telling you that yes, person B can apply for spouse visa (subject to the requirements above) but they MUST DO IT FROM OUTSIDE THE UK. I don't know how to make it more clear, unfortunately.

Edit: overtaken by Casa, thank you!

[Casa]

Further to the previous post by meself2, if you are meeting the financial criteria with savings alone, the amount required is £62,500. Unless the full amount is from the sale of property, the £62,500 must have been held in an accessible account for a minimum of 6 months.

[Ticktack]

Truly, this thread is getting long. But please note that before anyone responds to your queries, they always read from the top to bottom.

Hopefully you don't miss this again. Full breakdown.

Person B doesn't need a visa to come to the UK (termed as visiting the UK).
Person B cannot just come to the UK and apply for a spouse visa (leave to remain in the UK).
In this regards, unless person B is Irish, person B is treated as a visa national (requiring a visa to enter the UK to stay/renew visas that lead to settlement).
Person B needs a leave to enter/remain visa to enter/remain in the UK.
This can "only" be done initially from outside the UK.
It's a privilege that person B can travel to the UK without a visa (visit), but that's where the privilege ends post BREXIT.