Work Permit Processing Times

[Friedrich]

On DETE's processing times page it lists the dates of applications being processed as of a certain date. I know it's unpredictable to an extent and varies by case but assuming a totally straightforward, best-case scenario when an application from a certain date is being processed and is finally out of the queue, how long does it usually take to process? Is it then just a matter of a day or two, best-case?

For example, as of 10 July they were processing Standard Critical Skills applications from 27 May so if my app was straightforward and had been submitted on 27 May would it be likely approved or denied today or tomorrow?
https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/what-we-do ... ing-dates/


I ask this because I've been having a hard time with my employer and have been delayed in getting my permit submitted. Unfortunately, because I'm moving my current job over to their Dublin branch by choice, the effort and cost burden are mine to bear. It should happen within the next day or 5 . While my timeline slipped my 18 year old financially dependent daughter applied and was accepted to U of Galway and now has a deadline to be there for orientation, classes, etc. in September. I know my permit is at the mercy of DETE staff's schedules but I was really, really hoping my daughter, wife, and I could arrive at the same time under my Critical Skills permit sponsorship (we're non-visa required US citizens and with Critical Skills should be able to arrive immediately after the permit is effective). Technically, I think my daughter will be on her own Stamp 2 permissions but https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/m ... alisation/ is leading me to believe that *maybe* down the road if she applies for naturalization that she might be able to use my reckonable residence but only if we arrive together and she is able to get another year or so of reckonable residence of her own after graduation and she applies before she's 24 (not sure if that's inclusive of age 23):

Young adults

You can use your parent’s reckonable residence if you are a young adult and do not have the required reckonable residence yourself.

You are a young adult if:

You are aged between 18 and 23 when you make your application
You entered Ireland legally with your family
You are in school or you went straight from school to third level college in Ireland
You are dependent on your parents


Or, am I totally misunderstanding the above?

Thanks

[meself2]

Not sure about the permit timelines.

so if my app was straightforward and had been submitted on 27 May would it be likely approved or denied today or tomorrow?

It's for DETE to even decide whether it's straightforward or not. And no, it'll take a bit more time - they take a few days to process the decision.

Re your daughter's naturalization, this might be a point to consider:

You are dependent on your parents

I think my daughter will be on her own Stamp 2 permissions

Would that still make her dependent on you, as her permission on Stamp 2 is independent?

If you can afford for her not to work, Stamp 3 as a dependent on CSEP holder might be a better option.

[Vadrar]

Re your daughter's naturalization, this might be a point to consider:

You are dependent on your parents

I think my daughter will be on her own Stamp 2 permissions

Would that still make her dependent on you, as her permission on Stamp 2 is independent?

If you can afford for her not to work, Stamp 3 as a dependent on CSEP holder might be a better option.

I’d imagine Stamp 2 might well be considered independent, irrespective of financial arrangements and arrival times, as she’s travelled for her own purposes (discretionary post school
study) once she’s come of age. Typically this view of dependency is for children who were in the Republic before they finished school and stayed on.

But as meself2 is suggesting, Stamp 3 is reckonable residency in its own right, so the question about dependency (for naturalisation purposes) goes away (despite it being granted under your permission for immigration purposes.)

If she is going to apply for naturalisation she should ensure she has eligible documents in her name from the beginning (ie at least an Irish bank statement with transactions and some sort of address proof - at least a mobile phone bill, but name on an utility bill better) for her application- just in case her status as dependent is rejected and she can’t use your documents.

[Friedrich]

Thank you for the reply.

It's for DETE to even decide whether it's straightforward or not. And no, it'll take a bit more time - they take a few days to process the decision.

This makes logical sense to me. So my timeline is probably on life support at this point and that's in a very best case scenario. Finally got all but one signature back from HR and that looks like it might not get to me before next week now. I asked about Trusted Partner but HR had to check with someone else if that's still valid for the company. They used to be a TP, maybe. She wasn't sure.

Would that still make her dependent on you, as her permission on Stamp 2 is independent?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. At 18 she's never lived outside of our house, has not worked, and still eats our food. As long was she's in school we're okay with that. We might even be able to prove that dependence to immigration.

If you can afford for her not to work, Stamp 3 as a dependent on CSEP holder might be a better option.

I guess I don't understand how immigration determines what stamp she'll get. If we have input in the form of proof they need then maybe that's the way to go. My concern now with my timeline is that in order for her to get to school in time, we may need to send her ahead of us a few weeks early. And by definition, she'd be living on her own during that time even if we're the ones paying for her to live and so she would still be financially dependent. And she might have to arrive on her own in the state. At best, if my permit is still processing, I will have to stay behind until that's final. My wife can travel with her to drop her off, basically, but my wife would then have to leave and re-enter with me after I get my permit. A lot of hoops to jump through if the permit doesn't make it in time but I want to make sure we're jumping through the right hoops.

[Friedrich]

I’d imagine Stamp 2 might well be considered independent, irrespective of financial arrangements and arrival times, as she’s travelled for her own purposes (discretionary post school
study) once she’s come of age. Typically this view of dependency is for children who were in the Republic before they finished school and stayed on.

But as meself2 is suggesting, Stamp 3 is reckonable residency in its own right, so the question about dependency (for naturalisation purposes) goes away (despite it being granted under your permission for immigration purposes.)

If she is going to apply for naturalisation she should ensure she has eligible documents in her name from the beginning (ie at least an Irish bank statement with transactions and some sort of address proof - at least a mobile phone bill, but name on an utility bill better) for her application- just in case her status as dependent is rejected and she can’t use your documents.

Thanks as well. I think that's what I was originally thinking. As a dependent and as part of our core family unit, I was hoping she could get a stamp 3 from the start so that she definitely would have reckonable residence. My concern is that if she has to go ahead of us, even for a few weeks, she gets a stamp 2 from the beginning and won't be able to switch that over to a 3, so she'll be in country for 4 years during school that won't count for naturalization. It may not matter, she might not care to get citizenship by that time. Who knows? But I want to preserve any possibilities by doing things the right way from the beginning.

[meself2]

, she gets a stamp 2 from the beginning and won't be able to switch that over to a 3,

Why won't she be able to switch?

[Vadrar]

I’d imagine Stamp 2 might well be considered independent, irrespective of financial arrangements and arrival times, as she’s travelled for her own purposes (discretionary post school
study) once she’s come of age. Typically this view of dependency is for children who were in the Republic before they finished school and stayed on.

But as meself2 is suggesting, Stamp 3 is reckonable residency in its own right, so the question about dependency (for naturalisation purposes) goes away (despite it being granted under your permission for immigration purposes.)

If she is going to apply for naturalisation she should ensure she has eligible documents in her name from the beginning (ie at least an Irish bank statement with transactions and some sort of address proof - at least a mobile phone bill, but name on an utility bill better) for her application- just in case her status as dependent is rejected and she can’t use your documents.

Thanks as well. I think that's what I was originally thinking. As a dependent and as part of our core family unit, I was hoping she could get a stamp 3 from the start so that she definitely would have reckonable residence. My concern is that if she has to go ahead of us, even for a few weeks, she gets a stamp 2 from the beginning and won't be able to switch that over to a 3, so she'll be in country for 4 years during school that won't count for naturalization. It may not matter, she might not care to get citizenship by that time. Who knows? But I want to preserve any possibilities by doing things the right way from the beginning.

I don't think there is an issue in general changing to Stamp 3 from other stamps.Here's the link for changing stamps: https://www.irishimmigration.ie/registe ... 0Stamp%203.

However, I'm not sure what the age limit of 18, in regards to being eligible for Stamp 3, means for your daughter though. I presume she can extend it if granted while she is within age, but you'll need to check about that and how long she still has as an 18yo compared to the timeline for granting it. Edit - I was reading wrong section - the 'under 23 and in full-time education' provision means she should be fine as long as her course is full time.

[Friedrich]

I didn't realize that might be possible. But according to:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/registe ... ermission/

Stamp 3 for her would require her to be between 16 and 18. is that inclusive of age 18, so up to 19 years old, minus a day?

[Vadrar]

I didn't realize that might be possible. But according to:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/registe ... ermission/

Stamp 3 for her would require her to be between 16 and 18. is that inclusive of age 18, so up to 19 years old, minus a day?

Have a look at this:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/my-situ ... ependents/

I think she should be fine. I was reading the wrong section when I wrote that comment about 18 above.

[Friedrich]

I didn't realize that might be possible. But according to:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/registe ... ermission/

Stamp 3 for her would require her to be between 16 and 18. is that inclusive of age 18, so up to 19 years old, minus a day?

Have a look at this:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/my-situ ... ependents/

I think she should be fine. I was reading the wrong section when I wrote that comment about 18 above.

Plus the information is sometimes scattered about. OK, this is making sense to me now. So even if she goes on her own for a a few weeks or a month she should be fine. In fact, I think she'll have 90 days to register so by then all 3 of us will be there and she can register as stamp 3 from the jump. Even if I'm wrong on timing of that, switching from 2 to 3 seems like it will work.

[Vadrar]

I didn't realize that might be possible. But according to:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/registe ... ermission/

Stamp 3 for her would require her to be between 16 and 18. is that inclusive of age 18, so up to 19 years old, minus a day?

Have a look at this:
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/my-situ ... ependents/

I think she should be fine. I was reading the wrong section when I wrote that comment about 18 above.

Plus the information is sometimes scattered about. OK, this is making sense to me now. So even if she goes on her own for a a few weeks or a month she should be fine. In fact, I think she'll have 90 days to register so by then all 3 of us will be there and she can register as stamp 3 from the jump. Even if I'm wrong on timing of that, switching from 2 to 3 seems like it will work.

She won't be able to turn up at the first immigration appointment and just switch. I'm pretty certain she'll need to attend the immigration appointment and finalise her stamp 2, then apply by post as per the instructions on the links given above, get a new permission, attend a second immigration appointment/interview and go from there. Her reckonable residency for naturalisation purposes will start from the date of the second immigration interview, if she isn't regarded as a dependent while on stamp 2.

And, at the risk of being repetitious, I'll give another plug to strongly recommending she gets her own documentation, in her own name, (naturalisation Type A and Type B) from the get-go, to avoid problems later should she decide to apply for naturalisation. I've seen a bunch of snarl ups lately in analogous situations where people presumed they could rely on family members documentations for various reasons and the relevant years have been rejected.

[Friedrich]

She won't be able to turn up at the first immigration appointment and just switch. I'm pretty certain she'll need to attend the immigration appointment and finalise her stamp 2, then apply by post as per the instructions on the links given above, get a new permission, attend a second immigration appointment/interview and go from there. Her reckonable residency for naturalisation purposes will start from the date of the second immigration interview, if she isn't regarded as a dependent while on stamp 2.

And, at the risk of being repetitious, I'll give another plug to strongly recommending she gets her own documentation, in her own name, (naturalisation Type A and Type B) from the get-go, to avoid problems later should she decide to apply for naturalisation. I've seen a bunch of snarl ups lately in analogous situations where people presumed they could rely on family members documentations for various reasons and the relevant years have been rejected.

I thought that the initial stamp permissions start from registration. But as a non-visa national we have maximum of 90 days to register or at a minimum set up an appointment. What I am now thinking is that for her, she could delay that registration until maybe 30 days after arrival or maybe less if I get there sooner, still well before the 90 day limit, and end up with just the one stamp - which would be a stamp 3. That's what I meant 'from the jump' (AKA get-go) - American slang, sorry, in that her initial stamp would be the preferred one and she wouldn't have to switch in that case. It should be similar to me, I have the 90 days to register and will end up with a stamp 1 based on Critical Skills. I could be wrong here though.

As to your 2nd point, absolutely agreed. My family has been discussing setting up accounts as needed and documenting/saving everything that might be relevant and even things that might not seem relevant. It definitely takes some long range planning ahead of time.

[meself2]

But as a non-visa national we have maximum of 90 days to register or at a minimum set up an appointment.

I hope you're aware about waiting times for the first appointment that might be very long - better to register for one early than late. She might even help with setting up for an appointment for the family if she gets there before yous.

[Friedrich]

I think I had heard of delays in Dublin. We'll be out in Galway so will have to register with Garda out there. Are there delays nationwide or mostly just in Dublin?

[meself2]

I'm in Dublin, but I've heard the opposite, actually.
Here's a quote from a forum member about Cork:

When I booked my appointment at the beginning of June the backlog was only at Feb.

So it may not be smooth sailing.

[Friedrich]

Thanks for the heads up. Maybe the Dublin delays I heard about were in the past. I've read a million Reddit threads and almost as many here so hard to remember. I'm hoping for the best but trying to be prepared for the worst.

[Vadrar]

But as a non-visa national we have maximum of 90 days to register or at a minimum set up an appointment. What I am now thinking is that for her, she could delay that registration until maybe 30 days after arrival or maybe less if I get there sooner, still well before the 90 day limit, and end up with just the one stamp - which would be a stamp 3. That's what I meant 'from the jump' (AKA get-go) - American slang, sorry, in that her initial stamp would be the preferred one and she wouldn't have to switch in that case. It should be similar to me, I have the 90 days to register and will end up with a stamp 1 based on Critical Skills. I could be wrong here though.

You'll need to have your Stamp 1 (your IRP) in hand before she can complete section 5 of her paperwork to apply for her Stamp 3. As meself2 says long delays mean that you may, or more likely, may not have that in hand in time for her to then apply by post, get a decision and then arrange an appointment within 90 days of her arrival - especially given it sounds like her 90 days starts before yours does. And it is summer - delays are only going to get longer each month until autumn.

Obviously it is your/her choice, but any immigration irregularity like missing 90 day registration etc so early in her residency will look, at best, messy on any potential naturalisation application. And it isn't even clear it is going to gain her any reckonable residency?

[Friedrich]

You'll need to have your Stamp 1 (your IRP) in hand before she can complete section 5 of her paperwork to apply for her Stamp 3. As meself2 says long delays mean that you may, or more likely, may not have that in hand in time for her to then apply by post, get a decision and then arrange an appointment within 90 days of her arrival - especially given it sounds like her 90 days starts before yours does. And it is summer - delays are only going to get longer each month until autumn.

Obviously it is your/her choice, but any immigration irregularity like missing 90 day registration etc so early in her residency will look, at best, messy on any potential naturalisation application. And it isn't even clear it is going to gain her any reckonable residency?

Per https://www.irishimmigration.ie/registe ... documents/

If your permission is dependent on another individual as a primary sponsor, this person must attend your registration appointment with you

our original intention was to all register on the same date on the back of my CSEP. So if that were possible then none of us would have an IRP at all yet as it would be the first appointment for all of us. That's with the idea of the original stamp being a stamp 3 for her. If she instead starts with stamp 2 (but not unless she gets an appointment to actually get that stamp) a few weeks before I arrive and switches to stamp 3 then I could see how that might be a problem. My guess is that if that's the route she has to take then she'll likely lose a few months of stamp 3 while waiting but at least she would be on stamp 2 to cover some of that gap. I have no idea how to handle no appointments being available even within the first 90 days of arrival. Not much we can do as we can't get stamps without arriving and then we have to wait however long it takes to get appointments.

I feel like I covered the details on arrival, registration, and getting stamps early on in my research but am beginning to get confused again. The stamp permissions are obtained during the registration, right? We're basically on the 90 day non-visa tourist-like permissions upon arrival until registration... except maybe me for work since I'll have the permit with me too. Unless I have it all wrong.

[Vadrar]

our original intention was to all register on the same date on the back of my CSEP. So if that were possible then none of us would have an IRP at all yet as it would be the first appointment for all of us.

In my county there is no chance of getting 3 appointments on the same day - or have any ability to plan/select/finesse for appointment times. People scour, agonise, beg, wait and grab them as single appointments as and when they come up and scramble through. Things may well be different in the county you are heading to (I think you said Donegal or Galway, I can't remember.)

But even if 3 adjacent appointments were available, that same link you give specifies that First Time Stamp 3 registrations require the Minister of Justice's letter (only received after the application has been posted off and approved), the sponsor's IRP and the sponsor themselves. And beyond the sponsor's IRP, the application for the Minister of Justice's letter requires other documents that can take time to arrive once in country - utility bills (can take up to 3 months after account is set up), registration with GP (can take months to find one (though other forms of proof are options that may be quicker to set up - eg health insurance.) How would you manage that with adjacent appointments? My experience is that first time Stamp 3 applicants tend to arrive after the sponsor has arrived (and got their IRP in hand) precisely because of the difficult in timing. If you can conjure it differently, power to you. Hope your daughter has a ball at university - what an adventure for her!

[Friedrich]

Yep, County Galway is our destination and mainly because of my daughter's schooling. I think it will be a great experience for all of us if we can navigate the bureaucracy and other challenges. I'll cross my fingers and hope we can manage in the most efficient way possible but if not, we'll roll with the punches. Worst case scenario it all blows up and we come back to the US and hope everything's not burning around us here too. Interesting times. Anyway, thank you for the insight regardless. It's extremely helpful knowing what to expect and what complications seem likely to arise.