Rules regarding travel without Stamp4EU wife IRP card holder?

[Corkyboy]

Hello,

I'm from the UK and my wife is a Stamp4eu IRP card holder and we have been living and working in Ireland.

Does anyone know the EU Treaty Rights rules about whether or not I am allowed to go and travel for a short while, whilst she continues to work in Ireland?
If so, how long?

I saw that Stamp4eu card holders can now travel without their EU or UK spouse, but not sure if it applies to Ireland, and whether the same applies to me?
What date was that allowed?

Thanks for any help.

[Vadrar]

Hello,

I'm from the UK and my wife is a Stamp4eu IRP card holder and we have been living and working in Ireland.

Does anyone know the EU Treaty Rights rules about whether or not I am allowed to go and travel for a short while, whilst she continues to work in Ireland?
If so, how long?

I saw that Stamp4eu card holders can now travel without their EU or UK spouse, but not sure if it applies to Ireland, and whether the same applies to me?
What date was that allowed?

Thanks for any help.

All content pasted in quotation marks from here: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/fc9c5 ... a-citizens

Although as a British citizen you are no longer a Union citizen, while your wife holds an EU Treaty Rights permission to be in Ireland, you can read the following regulations about Union citizens pasted below as being relevant to yourself and her as explained here:

'Ireland / United Kingdom Social Security arrangements from 1 January 2021

The European Union and the United Kingdom agreed a Trade and Cooperation Agreement which contains a Protocol on Social Security to take effect from 1 January 2021. The Protocol provides for a wide range of social security issues into the future. On the 31 December 2020, the Convention on Social Security agreed between Ireland and the United Kingdom was commenced. Together these Agreements ensure, that all existing social security arrangements for Irish and UK citizens are maintained into the future. Ireland as an EU Member State, will extend on a unilateral basis the advantages of the Convention to Union citizens, as required.'

Regarding your questions:
1) Do you have a child in school? If so, you can depart and your wife can stay as long as child is in school:

'Where a Union citizen dies or departs from the State and, at the time of his or her death or departure, he or she had a right of residence in the State under these Regulations, and his or her child, being resident in the State, was enrolled in an educational establishment in the State for the principal purpose of studying there (10) , then the surviving parent, irrespective of nationality, will be entitled to reside in the State until completion by the child of the course of studies or training concerned. The conditions applying to this scenario are as follows.

The person must:

have custody of the child, where the child is under the age of 18 years, or
where the child is aged 18 years or over their presence and care continues to be needed in order for the child to be able to pursue and complete his or her education'

2) If you don't have a child in school, you aren't divorced/annulled etc or dead, you can likely leave for up to 6 months in 12 before her permission would be revoked on the basis that you are no longer present in Ireland. (For general travel; there are some military service and health exceptions etc.) This is because you are generally considered to retain continuity of residence (which is a condition of her derived permission) if your absences are fewer than 6 months in 12.

'Continuity of residence ... is not affected by temporary absences not exceeding 6 months in a 12 month period, absences of a longer duration for military service or one absence of 12 months for issues such as pregnancy and child birth, serious illness, study or a posting to another Member State or Third Country.'

I have seen an argument that while she could join you out of Ireland during these 6 months, and not endanger her permission, but not be absent from Ireland in addition to your permitted 6 month absence. That is to say, if you were not jointly present in Ireland as a couple for say 7 months in a year that her permission could be revoked. The case in which this came up didn't end up being revoked on this basis (it was revoked on a different basis so Immigration didn't end up pursuing this matter) so I don't know whether this would stand scrutiny in court or was just sabre rattling.

3) The new stamp4Eu rights to travel in the Schengen zone do not apply to you. That is to say, you gained no new rights that you didn't already have. All it means is that if a stamp4EU holder previously had to get a Schengen visa to travel in the Schengen they don't need to now. As a British citizen you have never needed a Schengen visa, so it makes zero difference to you. It is your wife that has gained some rights. She is however still limited to 90 days in 180 in the Schengen zone.

[Corkyboy]

Thanks a million Vadrar,

I guess a week or two travelling on my own without her is no problem then? Is that right?

Just curious, but do the DOJ have access to data on if I do travel?
Like, how to they know if you've actually been out of the country when you have no needed stamps in your passport recording said travel?

Thanks again.

Gold

[Vadrar]

Thanks a million Vadrar,

I guess a week or two travelling on my own without her is no problem then? Is that right?

Just curious, but do the DOJ have access to data on if I do travel?
Like, how to they know if you've actually been out of the country when you have no needed stamps in your passport recording said travel?

Thanks again.

Gold

A few weeks won't be a problem at all.

Stamps definitely aren't needed to track travel; indeed increasingly not even passports are needed for travel tracking anymore.

Travel is not/rarely recorded by stamps in passports anymore, just like visas are increasingly rarely physically stamped in passports anymore. it is pretty much all digital tracking now if you are travelling to developed countries. For example, this is precisely the point of the EU EES (Entry/Exit System) introduction: it collects entry and exit data (for non-EU nationals) and shares it EU wide (and in certain instances, beyond). It hasn't started officially, but has been soft launched in several airports already and will expand to all. Ireland and UK have one of the closest immigration sharing protocols in the world, and doesn't need physical stamps to do this. UK airports are allowed to (and are starting to) collect data via facial recognition systems, so movement can be recorded without a passport ever being shown, even within the Common Travel Area. Heathrow is talking about going passport-less entirely, though whether this will happen in reality is another story. Ireland and the US have agreements to share immigration data, and of course all foreigner entry to the US is digitally recorded and monitored by the US. US airports collect entry data with facial recognition now - there are apps where some people can take a selfie while in the airport and skip immigration lines entirely. The facial recognition schemes also prevent people using a concurrent passport or multiple citizenships to double dip on their allowances.

Ireland can also ask people to self-report if they suspect an issue and can request evidence (eg ask someone who claims not to have left Ireland to show bank statements to support that claim.) Airlines can also be asked for their records, but usually not for immigration purposes and this data is anonymised and dumped more quickly than immigration information collected by governments.

But if you are only travelling for a few weeks there's no concern at all about your wife's permission.