[Complex] Advice / feedback on obtaining citizenship through descent and trouble getting children registered

[fizzlettuce]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this forum and would appreciate any guidance on the best and most cost-effective route to UK citizenship for my uncle.

Background
I have personally gone through the Ancestry route—applying, extending, obtaining ILR, and eventually naturalising as a British citizen. This process took about seven years. My immediate family followed the same path, and we are now settled in the UK.
However, my uncle remains in Pakistan, and while he is eligible to apply via the Ancestry route, the new Health Surcharge costs (~£5,000) make this a significant financial burden. Given his age (72), I am looking for a faster and more affordable alternative to UK citizenship.


Applicant’s Details:

Born: March 1953
Place of birth: Lahore - Pakistan (Post-partition)
Nationality: Pakistani
UK Status: ??? Seeing as my grandmother tried to register him and the other boys, I would assume he is a British Subject.
She did contact the embassy to register them
He was added as a child on her passport and able to travel with her till the age of 18.
Travel to UK: Never - was planned to travel, but mother fell pregnant and ill.


Applicant's Mother:

Born: Jan-1917
Place of Birth: Lahore - India (Pre-partition)
Nationality:
British (through CUKC) (Father was born in Wales and was in Crown service at her birth) Did have a British Passport
Pakistani
Army Service: Corporal - Womens Auxiliary Corps India
(Considered a British Voluntary service)
Army Service No: Available
Army Service Period Aug 1942-1944
Pre-Army service Occupation: Teacher
Travel to UK: Was planned to until wife fell pregnant with 3rd son, and then fell ill. Circa 1957
UK Passport Issue: Jul-56
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: No
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: No


Applicant's Father
Born: Sep-1917
Place of Birth: Delhi- India (Pre-partition)
Death: July-1990
Place of Death: Lahore - Pakistan (Post-Partition)

Nationality:
Pakistani
?????? (British Subject on account of his parents? )
Army Service: Auxiliary Force India - N.W.R (North Western Railway) Battalion
(Considered a British Voluntary service)
Army Service No: Available
Army Service Period: Aug 1942-1944
Pre-Army service Occupation: Unsure
Travel to UK: Was planned to until wife fell pregnant with 3rd son, and then fell ill. Circa 1957
UK Passport Issue: Never issued
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: No
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: No

Applicant’s Maternal Grandfather

Born: Sep-1881
Place of Birth: Pembroke, Wales - UK
Death: July-1921
Place of Death: Mussoori - India
Nationality:
British
Army Service: Various roles roles and regiments
Army Service No: Available
Army Service Period Sep 1903-July 1921
Pre-Army service Occupation: Unsure
Travel to UK: Yes
UK Passport Issue: Yes
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: N/A
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: No
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes

Applicant’s Maternal Grandmother

Born: Jul-1887
Place of Birth: Jamalpur - India
Death: July-1955
Place of Death: Lahore - Pakistan (Post-Partition)
Nationality:
British Subject??? Based on Husband / Father
Travel to UK: Unsure
UK Passport Issue: Unsure
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: No
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes

Applicant’s Maternal Uncle

Born: Jul-1915
Place of Birth: Lahore - Pakistan (Pre-Partition)
Death: May-1980
Place of Death: London - England
Nationality:
British Citizen, with letter stating his Children could be
Nationality of Wife: Pakistani
Travel to UK: Yes
Army Service: Various roles
UK Passport Issue: Yes
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes


Applicant’s Paternal Grandfather

Born: Jun 1879
Place of Birth: Delhi - India
Death: Jun-1947
Place of Death: Ambala - India
Nationality:
British Subject?? Based on Parents???
Army Service: Railway guard
Army Service No: Unavailable
Army Service Period: Unsure, but was until death.
Pre-Army service Occupation: Unsure
Travel to UK: No
UK Passport Issue: No
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes


Applicant’s Paternal Grandmother

Born: December-1884
Place of Birth: Delhi - India
Death: May-1972
Place of Death: Perth - Australia
Nationality:
British Citizen (Naturalisation) and born to UK Citizen (British Subject)
Travel to UK: Yes
UK Passport Issue: July-1962
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes

Applicant’s Paternal Grandmother’s Father

Born: Jan 1841
Place of Birth: London, England
Death: circa 1885
Place of Death: India
Nationality:
British Citizen
Travel to UK: Yes
Army Service: Gunner Royal Artillery
Army Service No:
Army Service Period Unsure - was still in Army 1884
UK Passport Issue: Yes
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: N/A
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes

Applicant’s Paternal Uncles

Born: Similar time as father
Place of Birth: Delhi - India
Death: circa 1885
Place of Deaths: UK and Australia
Nationality:
British Citizens (Naturalisations)
Travel to UK: Yes
UK Passport Issue: Yes
Birth Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Marriage Record available on online British overseas registers: Yes
Death Record available on online British overseas registers: N/A


Some additional Documents I’ve got: (not limited to this list)

Passports and Military records as per mentioned above.

1953 dated letter from Mother’s brother to Ministry of pensions confirming mother and her siblings are on the pension list of paternal grandfather for the use of High commissioner

1953 dated letter from maternal uncle to Secretary War office to request assistance in providing documents related to Maternal grandfather to prove his army service and birth in the UK.

1954 dated letter from British High commission stating that mother’s brother is registered as a citizen based on his Father’s details Section 12(2) of the British nationality Act 1948 and his Wife is now acquired the status under Section 12(5) of the Act by marriage in 1944. Stating both names have been entered in “High commissioners Record of Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies”
Additionally stating that their sons “will be free to enter the United Kingdom at any time without needing to have a visa or permit , and to reside there permanently without restriction. freely enter the united Kingdom and reside there without needing a visa, permit


1955 Letter from maternal uncle (who was working for the service) to mother stating that she qualifies by descent under section 12(2) of the British Nationality Act 1948 with his and his wife’s Citizenship reference numbers.

1956 dated letter from british High commission stating that mother, maternal grandmother and maternal uncle are receiving pension for Maternal Grandfather’s service.

1956 dated Passport of Mother with the Applicant and siblings mentioned on it

1956 dated letter from british high commission to mother instructing to complete the application for inclusion of name in the commissioner’s record of Citizens of the united kingdom and colonies with her father’s birth certificate, her parents marriage certificate , her birth certificate and her marriage certficate

1956 dated Letter from British High commission stating that Mother has been registered as a citizen, and passport provided.
1956 dated letter from British High commission saying to Mother to call up regarding ‘application for an assistant passage to the United Kingdom’

Letter from home office saying to register the sons of Mother.

1962 Dated letter from British High commission to Paternal grandmother with Naturalisation certificate and passport issue

1966 Dated letter from Paternal Grandmother to Home office stating she hadn’t been informed about evacuation of the British women Citizens from India to UK (which was happening due to the 1965 war)

1966 dated letter from Mother to British High commission asking advice for how to register siblings and father to travel back to the UK.

1966 dated letter from Mother to British High commission asking advice for Passport renewal form since it’s expired. Expressing she would like her eldest son (applicant) to travel to UK alone at the age of 13 (seeking advice) and Regarding the process for her husband to travel to UK (based on applicant’s paternal grandmother’s citizenship, and paternal uncles already moved to the UK on the same basis)

1966 dated letter response from British High Commission to mother (in response to above letter) stating that since she is a Citizen of UK and Colonies it could be possible to issue father with an “Entry Certificate” - advised to call up. Advising that the Son couldn’t travel alone without a passport.

1967 dated letter from British High commission to Mother stating a new registration system has been introduced. Stating to bring documents and all children to be registered separately.

1968 dated letter from British High commision to Mother stating that as of the start of the year a new registration system came into effect, and she hasn’t yet completed the new registration. Enclosed a card for herself and sufficient for the members of her family. Complete the cards and return As soon as possible.

1977 dated letter from British High commission to Mother with registration cards for the siblings + father

1979 dated letter from British High commission to Mother attaching form for Passport renewal and advice to call up regarding registration of her children

Various letters from 1951 to 1984 to and fro from mother’s siblings expressing about how she is trying to travel to the UK with her family so she and her husband can be with their siblings and safe from the troubles being faced due to political instability.

Key Questions
Would my uncle qualify under UKM (UKM/ARD) or another discretionary route?
Given that his mother was a British citizen (CUKC), does he have a claim to British nationality?
Are there any faster or more cost-effective options than the Ancestry visa route?
Could the historic letters and records help establish a claim under historical nationality laws?

[razergd1]

I did not read the entire thing. But your best bet his through the uncles mother.
You confuse the types of British nationality. His mother had a British passport after 1983 and if so did it show her as British Citizen or had a right of abode observation in it?

You have 3 things to prove
A. That the mother was CUKC
B. That she had right of abode, so you need to demonstrate that her father was born in the UK.
C. That the grandfather was at crown service at the time of her birth (as she's not UK born).

[fizzlettuce]

I did not read the entire thing. But your best bet his through the uncles mother.
You confuse the types of British nationality. His mother had a British passport after 1983 and if so did it show her as British Citizen or had a right of abode observation in it?

You have 3 things to prove
A. That the mother was CUKC
B. That she had right of abode, so you need to demonstrate that her father was born in the UK.
C. That the grandfather was at crown service at the time of her birth (as she's not UK born).

Thanks for getting back to me - this is very useful. I was thinking the best bet is through the uncle's mother too.

Sorry about confusing the types of British nationality - This is an area I'm still learning about.

Unfortunately she didn't have a passport after 1983 - he had a passport issued in 1966. This was set to expire in 1971, but it was stamped to be extended upto 1976. I see there is an a "entry certificate EXEMPT" stamp enterd in 1971.

A. How do I prove she was CUKC? would this be on the passport? I also got a rejection letter for UKM for my dad's application stating she wa CUKC.
B. I've got her father's Army service record which shows he was enrolled to the service with place of birth showing the UK.
C. I can see a discharge certificate that says he was enlisted July-1916 and discharged July-1919 from the colours. This covers the period when the mother was born in Jan-1917

[razergd1]

Was she born in the British empire? Anyhow, she's a CUKC through the grandfather.

Who issued this passport? Does it state her nationality? Right of abode is a term which came into use only in 1971.

What's is the colours? Is this a unit of the British military or navy?

Can you post your father rejection letter? (Remove personal details).

[contorted_svy]

''the colours'' is kind of a slang expression to describe being an active member in the military.

[fizzlettuce]

Was she born in the British empire? Anyhow, she's a CUKC through the grandfather.

Who issued this passport? Does it state her nationality? Right of abode is a term which came into use only in 1971.

What's is the colours? Is this a unit of the British military or navy?

Can you post your father rejection letter? (Remove personal details).

Thanks for taking the time and getting back to me.

Yes, she was Born in India which was under the "British Empire" in 1917.

Passport was issued and stamped by "Office High Commissioner of the United Kingdom - Lahore " (Country: Pakistan) 1966

National Status : "British Subject: Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies"

Makes sense of the right of abode, as her passport was stamped on 10-Aug-1971 with the "Entry Certificate: Exempt" with a logo of the crown.

The colours refer to active member in the military - Words used in his official dicharge certificate.

Attaching a screenshot of my father's rejection letter after filling Form UK UKM in 2019. This was when he was already on his ancestry visa and was being advised to apply for Naturalisation via ILR. https://ibb.co/6cWYy2RP

[contorted_svy]

National Status : "British Subject: Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies"

This is proof she was a CUKC. If that is stated on her passport that is good enough.

I see there is an a "entry certificate EXEMPT" stamp enterd in 1971.

Not sure if this is the same as Right to Abode as it could also have applied to people in the armed forces or their spouses from what I was able to find.

[razergd1]

They claim that your grandmother derived her status by descent.
Did you submit a proof of crown service of her father at the time of her birth?

Your main obstacle is to proof that the mother was CUKC otherwise by descent. This may be done if you can show that her father was in crown service.

I guess that she had the right of abode as there is no mention of it in the rejection letter

[fizzlettuce]

They claim that your grandmother derived her status by descent.
Did you submit a proof of crown service of her father at the time of her birth?

Your main obstacle is to proof that the mother was CUKC otherwise by descent. This may be done if you can show that her father was in crown service.

I guess that she had the right of abode as there is no mention of it in the rejection letter

Thanks for this! Good point. I did submit the Army Discharge certificate. I guess I might have not pointed out clearly that her father was in crown service at the time of her birth and that she should have been granted citizenship otherwise by descent.

[fizzlettuce]

National Status : "British Subject: Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies"

This is proof she was a CUKC. If that is stated on her passport that is good enough.

I see there is an a "entry certificate EXEMPT" stamp enterd in 1971.

Not sure if this is the same as Right to Abode as it could also have applied to people in the armed forces or their spouses from what I was able to find.

Thank you for reassurance on the CUKC status

I'm not sure if it's the same as Right to Abode either.

I was going through papers and I can see that her brother and his family had travelled by Ship to the UK on 1959.