EU Treaty rights application - initial response - help!

[ninid]

Hi all
I'm new to this so bear with me please! I'm Irish and my non EU hubby applied for EU fam stamp 4 recently. He got letter today from INIS saying that the Irish national must produce evidence that he/she has exercised their EU treaty rights in another EU country. What does this mean? What evidence do we need to give them?
They also asked for evidence of residence in the State over the past 5 years - I take it this means his residence?:oops: We did send info. on last 2 residences but we don't have evidence for full past 5 years. Don't know how to get evidence of previous residence. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[sideshowsue]

Have you and your non-EU husband returned to Ireland from another EU country? That is, were you either working or resident elsewhere in the EU and have since recently taken up residence in Ireland?

If yes, then they're looking for documentary evidence like pay slips, utility bills, mortgage/rent receipts, bank statements etc from your former residence outside Ireland.

If you are not returning to Ireland from another EU country, then you are not 'exercising your treaty rights' and, therefore, your non-EU spouse is ineligible for the EUFam card. The right of your spouse to reside with you is based upon national law rather than EU/Treaty law. As such, you must meet the requirements that the INIS have set out in detail here.

Don't know why they're looking for details covering the last 5 years, though. But then again, the INIS moves in mysterious ways and its logic has very little overlap with earth logic.

[ninid]

thanks for your speedy reply sideshowsue.
I lived outside Ireland in another EU country but returned around 7 years ago. Does this mean I have 'exercised my Treaty rights' and if so would my husband be eligible for the EU Fam card?

to give you the background myself and my husband have been together for over 5 years and married for over 2. We met here - and have lived here since then. He has always been legal here. He has stamp 4 but we thought EU Fam would make it easier to travel within Europe for now ie that he (or I to be more precise!) wouldn't have to go to the hassle of getting visas each time we go on hols. He is considering applying for citizenship down the line but we thought this would be an option for now.

[acme4242]

It is true, because you are Irish you are unprivileged. and have less rights.

Another hope is if you happen to hold another EU citizenship, e.g. UK,
if you or either one of your parents where born in the north, or
in Britain. Then you can reapply as a UK citizen and get the 4EUFAM

To apply as Irish, and qualify under treaty rights sometimes
referred to as SURINDER SINGH after the guy who won the ECJ case, you need to have been either
a) employed
b) self-employed
c) student
d) self sufficient, retired.
in another EU state before returning to Ireland with your spouse.

Failing that, I would suggest you go to your TD, and give him an
ear full.

Just to let you know who is to blame and responsible for all this,
it was John O'Donoghue Fainna Fail, who took away post-nupital
citizenship, and it was Micheal McDowell who took away the rights
of the family concerning automatic rights of residence.
O'Donoghue is still a TD, while McDowell got kicked out.

The Irish could, if they wished, help you, by allowing you to decide
to apply under EU or Irish rules. Thereby removing the current reverse
discrimination you suffer. I think Italy allow their citizens the choice.
But the Irish are not obliged to by EU law, as its a domestic issue
except under SURINDER SINGH conditions.

As I am not an expert, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[sideshowsue]

to give you the background myself and my husband have been together for over 5 years and married for over 2. We met here - and have lived here since then. He has always been legal here. He has stamp 4 but we thought EU Fam would make it easier to travel within Europe for now ie that he (or I to be more precise!) wouldn't have to go to the hassle of getting visas each time we go on hols. He is considering applying for citizenship down the line but we thought this would be an option for now.

Prefacing my remarks with the caveat that I'm no expert on immigration policy, it seems to me most unlikely that your spouse can obtain an EUFam card because: (1) your relationship started in Ireland (2) your family life with your spouse has only taken place in Ireland (3) You and your spouse have not lived together as a couple outside Ireland in another EU country. Therefore, for the purposes of determining residency requirements and the right to remain in Ireland, it is Irish national law that holds jurisdiction in your case and not EU/Treaty law.

I understand your frustration with the inconvenience of travelling outside of Ireland if your spouse is a visa-required national. Nevertheless, I think there are provisions in EU law to facilitate such inter-EU travel for the spouses of EU nationals. That said, theory and practice often fail to join up since many embassies either (illegally) refuse to acknowledge these provisions or embassy staff are simply ignorant of these EU Directives which seek to facilitate inter-EU travel. Have a look at this thread which has certain parallels with your present situation. A UK national wants to travel to Ireland with non-EU, visa-requiring spouse. Although, in theory, the process should be simple and straightforward, in practice, the Irish embassy is causing no end of hassle.

Hope that helps.

[ninid]

Thanks for your replies and for the thread.
tis frustrating stuff alright.
I called INIS today and was advised to lodge proof of having resided/worked in another EU country previously. I was told this would evidence me having exercised my EU treaty rights before the application was made. Am going to lodge what they asked for and see what happens. will keep you posted...in the mean time i have a lot of reading up to do on this stuff!