Canadian spouse of Eu National - Working in EU

[BigS]

Hi all,

I am a Canadian citizen currently living with my wife and child in Quebec. My wife and I got married in France (she is a French National) and have been living in Canada since summer of 2006.

I am currently contemplating an internal transfer opportunity with my employer (a global company headquarters in the US with local legal entity/offices representation in every major European country) which can be based in either France, the Netherlands or the UK (Sorry, i know there's a UK specific board but this is more general ).

I have historically spent some time in teh Netherlands (initially under a working holiday visa , overstayed a little ( ) and in the UK (with an employer sponsored Work Permit which expired in 2008 although I left in 2006; I didn't have an NI number but was paying all taxes and deductions; presumably under a temp auto-assigned number)

tl;dr i know
I'm looking to find out what I need to do to prepare for migration back to FR, NL or UK as a canadian national married to a French National, preferably without corporate sponsored work permit (allowing me to request a more comfortable relocation package ).

Any advice oh wise sages of the Immigrationboards?

Many thanks
-BigS

[86ti]

Are you planning to move there together?

[BigS]

86ti

Short answer is Yes.
If it's France, then we simply go there.
If it's NL or UK, my wife would stay with family in France until I make arrangements (housing etc..)

[86ti]

The point is that you can benefit from EU law only if you move there together otherwise you will have to deal with the respective national laws. This means that for crucial moments like registrating your status your wife will have to be present at some point. The UK is here fundamentally different from NL despite the same law. You will have to carefully think how you will enter if you will go alone first.

In any case have a look into Directive 2004/38/EC and the easier to read guide.

[BigS]

I think I understand but need clarity on the following:

As a French National, my spouse has the right to move freely and enter for the purposes of *anything* for up to three months no questions asked.
If we enter the host country together, I am allowed in.

Question 1: what do we need to "report our presence"
Question 2: can I immediately "seek employment" ?
Question 3: if i sign a contract with the local entity of my employer etc.. can my income be used as legitimate "sufficient resources" for my spouse to stay beyond the original 3 month period and onwards pseudo permanently ?

Other points to ponder:
-Any issues with my spouse leaving temporarily as I arrange things (understanding that i should stay put in the chosen country)
-I presume the above applies to the UK but i need the family sticker first ?

Thanks for your guidance

[86ti]

A1: depends on the country. In the UK you probably may want to apply for the residence card (it's optional but for all practical purpose you will need it). In NL or FR you will also have to register with the local commune. In which order and how I do not know. Best to try to find online communities for those countries.

A2: In principle yes but employers want to see a 'visa' of some sort that says that you are indeed entitled to work. In the UK this may be a problem because of the stupid application process. As far as I know you get confirmation of your status in NL and FR much faster at a local authority.

A3: Yes. In principle it doesn't matter who supports the family but again the UK has a somewhat different view on matters. The EEA national has to declare self-sufficiency which may also mean explicit proof of comprehensive sickness insurance (who is insured byt the NHS seems to be the problem). Others may know more about that.

Absences of up to six month without breaking residence are allowed but make sure that your status is confirmed before she leaves, just in case.

What is the family sticker? The EEA family permit is an entrance clearance that you shouldn't need because you are a non-visa national. For the residence card you can only apply within the UK.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

As a French National, my spouse has the right to move freely and enter for the purposes of *anything* for up to three months no questions asked.
If we enter the host country together, I am allowed in.

If you are both “resident inâ€

[BigS]

Thank you both for the responses.

Interesting comment below...
[quote="Directive/2004/38/EC"]The only case that European law would apply for you in France is if your wife had worked in another EU member state and then you both moved “backâ€

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I doubt that work three years ago would count, but I am not a lawyer. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/ and the legal case linked from there for more details.

Welcome back to Europe! Can I ask where you are in Quebec and what you think of it?

[86ti]

Would that apply in our case (We met in NL when I was working there) even though we've spent ~3 years in Canada since ? Not sure what part of teh directive clarifies the "moving back" part

A question that I asked here once or twice too but never got a response. I was once advised (on another forum) that as long as you have claims to social insurance according to Regulation 1408/71 you should be still covered.

[BigS]

See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/ and the legal case linked from there for more details.

I was once advised (on another forum) that as long as you have claims to social insurance according to Regulation 1408/71 you should be still covered.

Looks like I have some reading to do before bugging you guys again. Thanks!

Welcome back to Europe! Can I ask where you are in Quebec and what you think of it?

I'm not "back" yet awaiting official announcement of the intra-company assignment before applying and deciding which country to target

We're currently living on the west side of "Ile Perrot" island (Just west of the main Island of Montreal) and enjoying the quiet natural setting

[86ti]

I was once advised (on another forum) that as long as you have claims to social insurance according to Regulation 1408/71 you should be still covered.

Looks like I have some reading to do before bugging you guys again. Thanks!

I am just afraid that by reading some pieces of EU law you won't get the answer. You may have to consult an EU lawyer in this question...

Somebody else on this forum claimed that France actually treats their citizens the same way as they treat EEA nationals under EU law. This obviously means that the non-EEA spouse would have the same rights and get exactly the same residence card in both cases.

[BigS]

I am just afraid that by reading some pieces of EU law you won't get the answer. You may have to consult an EU lawyer in this question...

You're certainly right about the relative difficulty in finding exact wording to specifically match a situation in any EU law.

I did, however, find the following which may simplify matters for me in case my relocation targets France

From: http://tinyurl.com/qrwtug

Cas de délivrance
La carte de résident peut être accordée :
*au conjoint et aux enfants de moins de 19 ans de l'étranger titulaire d'une carte de résident, qui ont été autorisés à séjourner en France au titre du regroupement familial et qui justifient d'une résidence régulière ininterrompue d'au moins 3 ans en France,
*à l'étranger, qui est père ou mère d'un enfant français résidant en France et qui est titulaire depuis au moins 3 ans d'une carte de séjour temporaire "vie privée et familiale" délivrée en cette qualité (il doit toujours remplir les conditions prévues pour l'obtention de cette carte et ne pas vivre en état de polygamie en France),
*à l'étranger marié depuis au moins 3 ans avec un ressortissant français, à condition que la communauté de vie entre les époux n'ait pas cessé depuis le mariage, que le conjoint ait conservé la nationalité française, et si le mariage a été célébré à l'étranger, qu'il ait été transcrit auparavant sur les registres de l'état civil français.

That basically says that , once married for 3 years (in my case this will be September '09), that I get a permanent resident card in France as long as I apply for it and provide supporting documentation.

oh, English translation of the bold bits for the Francais challenged below

The Resident Card may be granted:
[...]
*To the foreign national married to a French Citizen for at least 3 years, provided that: (1)the relationship between the spouses has not ceased since the marriage, (2)the spouse has kept French nationality, (3)and, if the marriage was celebrated abroad, it has been recorded in the French civil registry.

Does that make sense?
If so, now to get similar clarity for NL and UK

[86ti]

If so, now to get similar clarity for NL and UK

Well, that's just the EEA route as outlined above. For the UK see
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... dlaw/ecis/


For the NL you may find some information (copy and paste the link) here

http://www.ind.nl/EN/verblijfwijzer/ver ... re=Working as an employee&procedurestapnaam=Family member&land=France&duur=1&lang=en