Non EU spourse and EU nationals under Directive 2004/38/EC

[eldane]

I have been looking everywhere but can't seem to find any information with regards to this situation.

Can a non EU spouse to a EU national who is employed in another host member state in the EU under Directive 2004/38/EC get family reunification when the spouse in under 18 years old?

Directive 2004/38/EC does not mention age however, Border agency has the following found in url http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... s/#header2:

Who is a family member?

If you have a right to live the in the United Kingdom, your family may join you. Your family is defined as:

* your spouse or civil partner;
* children or grandchildren of you, your spouse or your civil partner who are under 21 years of age or who are dependent upon you; and
* the parents or grandparents of you, your spouse or your civil partner.

In the independent monitors parliament report which can be found here: http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/ ... eportApr09 on page 32 it says:

"The visit visa application had been refused citing 320 (7A) because the applicant had ticked the “Noâ€

[sky07]

Spouses have to be over 21. What are you trying to do?

[fysicus]

The EU directive has no age restriction on spouses. Of course, the country where you marry may have such restrictions (and they vary from country to country), but once you are married legally, that's it.

[eldane]

Hello,

Sky07 asks: "What are you trying to do?"

Well, my friend who is EU citizen and exercising treaty rights in the UK met this girl in the Dominican Republic who is 19 years old. However, she is an orphan as her parents died when she was very little and she has been fostered in a monastery by nuns and has no identity papers to prove her age and nationality.
Apparently there are two types of ID cards. One for minors and one for adults over 18 years and she has now been able to obtain a youngsters ID card despite her real age is 19. Her age on that ID card is 16 turning 17 in September and she has managed to "arrange" that she has been adopted by an uncle or something who will give legal permission for her to marry as a "minor".
Obviously my friend wants to bring her over to the UK but I am struggling to find the legal base as to if there are any impediments in doing so before he proceeds to marry her.

That is what I trying to do Sky07.

Fysicus, you mention there are legal restrictions which vary from country to country. I am very aware of that and all is apparently being done as legal as possible the circumstances taken in consideration.

My concern is that I think to remember that there was a meeting in Finland which I have found as being EU justice and home affairs ministers meeting in Tampere in September 2006. I think to remember that there was discussion and an agreement to set a minimum age for family reunification of 21 years.

The minutes from the meeting has the following … as to how best to promote a common European asylum system. Minister Rajamäki will, in the context of EU immigration management, present an initiative of the Presidency on extended European solidarity in immigration, border control and asylum policies.
That is basically the only thing relating to immigration I have been able to find.

As things stands I guess next step will be to seek advice from Solvit or something.

Thanks for any interest shown.

Michael

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Spouses have to be over 21. What are you trying to do?

non-EU spouses of (non UK) EU citizens who are living and working in the UK do not have to be over 21.

[eldane]

Thank you Directive/2004/38/EC, that that eliminated one possibility, However, next question would be must the non EU spouse be over 18 years old or does it suffice to be legally married in order to reunite the family under the directive?

Michael

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

How long has your friend been married to this person? Is this is a substantial and legitimate marriage?

[eldane]

as you can see from my post explaining Sky07 what I am trying....

"Her age on that ID card is 16 turning 17 in September and she has managed to "arrange" that she has been adopted by an uncle or something who will give legal permission for her to marry as a "minor".

Which I believe is future

And obviously he won't marry before the legalities are sorted.

Many thanks,

Michael

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

To me this feels odd. It is a bit procedural. It feels like it is get adopted so you can get married so you can immigrate to the UK.

I wonder how old she actually is.
I wonder about the "adoption".
I wonder about how substantial the relationship is with the person who she may marry.

I am sure the story is far richer than can be easily conveyed second or third hand in this forum. And I am sure I probably don't understand. But I also hope that all the people involved are clear and honest about their goals and motivations. Neither adoption nor marriage is for the faint of heart.

[eldane]

You wrote: "To me this feels odd. It is a bit procedural. It feels like it is get adopted so you can get married so you can immigrate to the UK."

No, I don’t think it’s set-up like that. In fact I know that when they met she was in the process of “regulatingâ€

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

What age does she need to be to marry without permission of her parents? Are her parents not willing to give permission?

[eldane]

See above where I am explaining Sky07 what I was on about...

"...met this girl in the Dominican Republic who is 19 years old. However, she is an orphan as her parents died when she was very little and she has been fostered in a monastery by nuns and has no identity papers to prove her age and nationality. "

Legal age in the Dominican Republic is 18 years hence that is the age when one can enter marriage legally without consent of parents etc.

Regards,

Michael

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So she "has no identity papers to prove her age and nationality", but has obtained false ID that says she is 16. Because of this an "uncle" (who is not really) is involved by "adopting" her, so that he can give "permission" to marry as a minor.

I would suggest she approach the nuns and get their help in getting her proper ID which corresponds with her real age and identity. They likely have the best records at the monistary of who her parents were and exactly when she was born, since it sounds like she has no records at all of any of this.

Your friend might want to go slowly on this. Get it 100% right

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So she "has no identity papers to prove her age and nationality", but has obtained false ID that says she is 16. Because of this an "uncle" (who is not really) is involved by "adopting" her, so that he can give "permission" to marry as a minor.

I would suggest she approach the nuns and get their help in getting her proper ID which corresponds with her real age and identity. They likely have the best records at the monistary of who her parents were and exactly when she was born, since it sounds like she has no records at all of any of this.

Your friend might want to go slowly on this. Get it 100% right. Make sure all the documentation is 100% legit and correct from end to end. To paraphrase "Good intentions are appreciated but good results are what matter.."

[eldane]

Hello,

Just in case some one should actually one day have a similar question I have now found the legal conditions for familly reunion with an EU citizen living in another EU state.

Council Directive 2003/86/EC (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 018:EN:PDF)
Chapter 2, Article 4, paragraph 5

5. In order to ensure better integration and to prevent forced marriages Member States may require the sponsor and his/her spouse to be of a minimum age, and at maximum 21 years, before the spouse is able to join him/her.

Regards,

Michael

[eldane]

Sorry, The system just went mad and came up with debug messages. Hence the quad posting.

[eldane]

Sorry, The system just went mad and came up with debug messages. Hence the quad posting.

[eldane]

Sorry, The system just went mad and came up with debug messages. Hence the quad posting.