4EUFam and fingerprints

[dublin3]

Hi everyone I have one more question I hope someone will help me as someone told me that under EU law Irish authorities can not take our fingerprints its illegal and its proved as well but if I apply for EEA family permit in British high commission in Dublin they will ask me to give my fingerprint so shall I give them my fingerprints or refuse to do so because this application is under EU law as well if it is illegal to do in Ireland so it will b same in UK as well..
I will be waiting for the answer of my stupid question..
thanks guys

[dublin3]

I am shocked to see that I didn't even get one reply of my question??? any Ideas please let me know..
thanks!

[meats]

I am shocked to see that I didn't even get one reply of my question??? any Ideas please let me know..
thanks!

Where's the harm in giving them your finger prints? Unless you're a criminal of course.

[dublin3]

there is no harm mate.. Did you read Obie's post when he got his 4Eufam card they asked him to provide his fingerprints which he refused and later he proved to them that this is against the law I hope you need to do some research on this topic I find on this forum when someone don't know the answer for question they don't post any replies untill they have enough knowledge to answer the question I think you should start doing that....
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 1+approved
please read Obie's post if you don't mind..

[Obie]

You can insist on not having it taken, but they will refuse to process your EEA family permit. You can report them, but before the complaints will come true, your time would have been wasted.

If your are in country like in the UK, they know they cannot request fingerprint before processing a resident card, or force you to have ID card. You can write to the commissioner, but it might take a long time for it to reap dividend.

The best option is flying without the permit, if you meet the conditions for entry to be granted.

[dublin3]

thanks very much my friend but believe me I am too scared to fly without permit..
I know that friend of my went there with his wife without visa and they gave him entry after asking few questions but you know my condition don't you ? so thats why I was thinking about applying one..
thanks Obie

[Obie]

I suspect the legality of the EEA Family Permit and the need for biometrics will be dealt with by the European Courts of Justice, in due course, or shall i say well overdue course. In the mean time, you will need to apply for it, and accept all the requirements, which i don't necessarily agree to.

If you wife has been exercising treaty rights for sometime here and she accompany you to the UK, i am sure you will be fine.

Perhaps you might want to consider deferring you UK travel, until after your EUfam application has been confirmed. That will add a boost to your case.

[dublin3]

Obie you are right I am not gonna apply right now I will wait for my EUfam card as it will come I will apply for EEA family permit. I was reading the requirements and I thought about you that you refused to give your finger print as you wrote it was against the law so I wanted to make sure that why UK is doing it if the application is under EU law..anyways my wife is exercising her treaty right for last 4 and half years she is full time employed as you know and if they refuse my application then I will use your route
Cheers mate.

[ca.funke]

Hi rebel82,

I filed a complaint with the commission about this, see the third entry of the following thread:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=30541

Where's the harm in giving them your finger prints? Unless you're a criminal of course.

Hi meats, the harm is that taking these fingerprints is against the law

I'm not saying that out-of-principle I don't want fingerprints taken. To be honest I would prefer them to be taken. But that's a separate discussion.

What's more important than taking or not-taking them, is adherence to the law. So here are the -IMHO only- 2 options:

• Don't take the fingerprints OR
• change the law and after that take them.

Governments should not ask their citizens to abide by the law, while they themselves don't care.

Regards,
Christian

[dublin3]

Thanks very much for more information and I am really happy that you understand the point of my question you and Obie are really helpful
thanks again mate..
Kind regards,
Imran

[Obie]

Interesting isn't. When Meats' compatriot were rejecting having their biometric taken for the government's abandoned Compulsory ID Card scheme, i don't remember people insinuating they might be criminals, that is why the vast majority of Brits were rejecting the idea. There was a huge public outcry, not to mention the campaign from the civil liberty organisations.

I remember. I was living there then. I use to think, what is all the force about. A civil rights expert told me, "it is a violation of one's privacy and their liberty there is a potential for misuse" and i understood fully.

It is funny, the double standards that are usually applied to foreigners.

The bottom line is, if the UK government don't make it compulsory for their citizens to have their biometrics taken, then beneficiaries of EU law, should not be made to take it. That would be illegal, fullstop. No two way about it.

Meats i hope you follow the gist. Are you with me bro. Then again i won't be surprised if you are not, taking into account our past encounters.

One can only hope.

[acme4242]

If I understand right, 4EUFAM holders are by law suppose to be treated the same as their EU family member.

As its unlawful to forcefully take fingerprints of innocent EU citizens, therefore the same applies to their family.

The UK had ID card upto the 1950s, they where dropped after complaints against the Police that where using it as a tool of oppression, where they would stop people who they already knew, and demand ID papers.

[opinion]
It is a mistake of the past, to allow any "authority" too much powers.
[/opinion]

[meats]

Interesting isn't. When Meats' compatriot were rejecting having their biometric taken for the government's abandoned Compulsory ID Card scheme, i don't remember people insinuating they might be criminals, that is why the vast majority of Brits were rejecting the idea. There was a huge public outcry, not to mention the campaign from the civil liberty organisations.

I remember. I was living there then. I use to think, what is all the force about. A civil rights expert told me, "it is a violation of one's privacy and their liberty there is a potential for misuse" and i understood fully.

It is funny, the double standards that are usually applied to foreigners.

The bottom line is, if the UK government don't make it compulsory for their citizens to have their biometrics taken, then beneficiaries of EU law, should not be made to take it. That would be illegal, fullstop. No two way about it.

Meats i hope you follow the gist. Are you with me bro. Then again i won't be surprised if you are not, taking into account our past encounters.

One can only hope.

There was a bit more than finger prints involved in those stupid ID cards this incompetent government were trying to force upon us. I seem to remember retina scans and a chip that had all your personal details on it. So, no, you can't really compare the two.

[Obie]

Meats, it appears you haven't applied for a passport lately. Retina data is now taken. Which is why you photograph has to be of certain quality.

Also the newly issued passport has biometric information.

Brits rejected it, not because of their criminality, but because of the civil rights violations associated. Fingerprint is one thing that did not make it appealing to them.

Not to mention the possible harassment members of the ethnic minority community would have had to endure.

[meats]

Meats, it appears you haven't applied for a passport lately. Retina data is now taken. Which is why you photograph has to be of certain quality.

Also the newly issued passport has biometric information.

Brits rejected it, not because of their criminality, but because of the civil rights violations associated. Fingerprint is one thing that did not make it appealing to them.

Not to mention the possible harassment members of the ethnic minority community would have had to endure.

I applied for a passport this year. The big one was having your personal details on the chip that people didn't like. The passports are going to get worse and worse with data due to terrorism in the world and in an attempt to try and catch out the people who forge passports.

Harrassment of ethnic minorities?

[Obie]

I think the UK should be kicked out of the union. Their presence there is not conducive to the good of the union.

They keep talking about how people should be law abiding, Minister Woolas, or whatever he is called went on radio 1 uttering so much tripe, about how immigrant don't have any freedom of speech right, and his rubbish probationary citizenship. Talking about how people should be of good character, when they are pocketing so much tax payers money in the form of second homes allowances and fraudulent mortgages claim.

Signing up to EU law, and at the same time misinterpreting it. Asking people who are holders Resident card under directive 2004/38EC to apply for this stupid permit. It is preposterous.

If they think they are unique island, and very special, let them get the hell out.

I might be affected by their expulsion, but i don't care. They are prolific offenders, where EU law is concerned.

I forgot to mention the bit where the European courts ruled that people who were not convicted of any crimes should have their details removed from Police database, government did not budge.

Also they are taking over a year to process EU residency application, which is just crazy. The Department of Justice here, the lowest of the lows, are managing to keep their heads above water, with regards to the six months legal requirements. The UK, however is acting as if they are exempted from the rules.

It is crazy.

[meats]

I think the UK should be kicked out of the union. Their presence there is not conducive to the good of the union.

Trust me, the majority of the UK would love a referendum on EU membership so that we can finally leave the EU!

[ca.funke]

Hi Obie,

for a change that's something meats and me agree on, and I guess we could get you into the same boat:

We'd all like to see the UK leave the Union, although for different reasons. Actually, maybe even the reason is the same: We think we should go our way, they think they should go their way. (That's valid for both sides, from different perspectives)

It's like a marriage that went bad, and now it's time to pull the emergency-break. No bad feelings at all, it's just better to go separate ways.

In this regard we should be happy about Lisbon (if the Czechs sign it): For the first time the EU amended their own rules, allowing countries to leave. As such the UK, Ireland and the Czech-Republic (actually all member-states) are now free to leave, should they so wish

Regards, Christian

[Obie]

Hi Christian,

I agree with you fully. I can't believe i would ever bring myself to say i agree with meats. This is like a paradoxical situation, where we both agree on things, but for different reasons.

The thing i like most about meat apart from his debating skills, is his true reflection of the mindset of the British people.

I have always said the Brits don't want to be there and should be kicked out, to maintain the integrity of the Union. There presence is like a marriage of convenience, which in its entirety is a sham. They make a complete mockery of the union.

I can't wait to see the further isolation, the millions of them that work in the community being kicked out, the trade opportunities and business establishment been curtailed, those pensioners in Spain being expelled.

Thanks to Lisbon, they can peacefully make their exit. That is if they have any dignity of course.

[dublin3]

I would be very very happy if UK get kicked out from union even though I would never be able to go there but still I would be happy..

[ca.funke]

...should be kicked out...

Sounds bitter to me.

Why not just organise the exit, and see the consequences unfold after.

[meats]

I can't wait to see the further isolation, the millions of them that work in the community being kicked out, the trade opportunities and business establishment been curtailed, those pensioners in Spain being expelled.

Thanks to Lisbon, they can peacefully make their exit. That is if they have any dignity of course.

Alas, i think the freedom of movement will be retained unfortunately and a similar agreement will no doubt be put in place to that of Switzerland and Norway.

If not then that's better still. The only Brits that would have to really worry about that is those on the Costa del Sol, the majority of the rest are working with locals and have integrated into society, and not pub owners who have turned the Costa del Sol into a no go area for all Brits who aren't on benefits!

Unless Klaus holds up the Lisbon treaty until our election we won't be leaving courtesy of the Lisbon treaty. That being said, if Bliar ever becomes EU president then hopefully the Tories will hold a referendum on EU memebership so that that lying conniving evil little c**t loses his job as EU president! Should the EU wish for more UK integration, which won't happen anyway, then appointing Bliar as president is a sure fire way to ensure that that never happens.

I did read a suggestion on a discussion board of a popular daily newspaper earlier today which made some sense. That being inviting the US into the Commonwealth and then treating that a lot more seriously than we do. That would be by far the best thing to do, no freedom of movement but having it as a trade bloc. Which, by the way, was what the EU was when we joined in 1973. Now it is a socialist monstrosity.

And whilst that's happening we can all sit back and watch the EU fall into civil war.

[ca.funke]

And whilst that's happening we can all sit back and watch the EU fall into civil war.

...we DO have different reasons...

Regards from (free) Switzerland

[Obie]

That would be by far the best thing to do, no freedom of movement but having it as a trade bloc.

Meats when the EC was created by 6 countries namely Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg, Italy and France , the intention was to create a single market and promote economic intergration.

You cannot have economic integration without moving Good, Services and capital. You cannot move goods, service and capital without moving people. You cannot have Economic integration without having political integration, which is how the ECC and subsequently the EU came to be born in 1993.

Therefore, this idea that it was created as simply a trading block, where these good and services and economic integration are meant to happen, without the movement of people hold no vericity, and frankly speaking impractical. I hope i make sense to you.


No one forced the UK to join or to continue to stay. In 1960 they applied and it was vetoed by Charles De Gaulle, they reapplied again in 1970, before the veto was lifted and there application approved 2 years later.


In 1975, the Brits voted by an overwhelming 2 to 1 margin to stay in the EU, therefore it is not as if the option hadn't been provided to them in the past.

It was simply rejected by the Brit.

I am sure the mechanism which will facilitate there departure, should they wish, will soon be implemented .

I am sure there won't be a civil war in the EU. The likelihood of that, will most likely decrease after the UK's departure, due to their polarising effect on the Union.

[meats]

That would be by far the best thing to do, no freedom of movement but having it as a trade bloc.

Meats when the EC was created by 6 countries namely Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg, Italy and France , the intention was to create a single market and promote economic intergration.

You cannot have economic integration without moving Good, Services and capital. You cannot move goods, service and capital without moving people. You cannot have Economic integration without having political integration, which is how the ECC and subsequently the EU came to be born in 1993.

Therefore, this idea that it was created as simply a trading block, where these good and services and economic integration are meant to happen, without the movement of people hold no vericity, and frankly speaking impractical. I hope i make sense to you.


No one forced the UK to join or to continue to stay. In 1960 they applied and it was vetoed by Charles De Gaulle, they reapplied again in 1970, before the veto was lifted and there application approved 2 years later.


In 1975, the Brits voted by well over 2 to 1 to stay in the EU, therefore it is not as if the option hadn't been provided to them in the past.

It was simply rejected by the Brit.

I am sure the mechanism which will facilitate there departure, should they wish, will be implemented soon.

I am sure there won't be a civil war in the EU. The likelihood of that will most likely decrease after the UK's departure, due to their polarising effect on the Union.

We were part of EFTA when we joined the EEC, it was then primarily a trading bloc. Please brush up on your history with regards to that Obie. de Gaulle vetoed the UK's entry to the EEC twice as he was scared of American interference. It was only when Pompidou (i think that's who followed de Gaulle) came into power that the UK's and the other EFTA's members applications were accepted.

I think the likelihood of a civil war in the EU is pretty big. You've got lots of different languages, cultures, personalities all in there and you're basically expecting them to be ruled from Paris and Berlin. Whilst the HQ is in Brussels it's well known that what the frogs and krauts want they get more often than not when it comes to the EU.

The sooner we leave the EU and end these 'love at first sight' sham marriages the better! Love at first sight my arse, more like here's a few grand now marry me and shut up.