Sponsoring parents trip to UK as visitors - visa dates clari

[captain74]

Hi

I intend to sponsor my parents on a trip to UK next year. I want them to come over to UK around June/July.

However, they are leaving for a trip to USA in early January (they have a ten year visa for USA) and would like to come to UK straight from USA.

My question is should they apply for UK visa before leaving the home country? If yes, will they be able to get the visa start date of six months ahead?

Finally, if they get a Visa start date of let us say March but enter UK in June, when does their six month period in Uk begin - March or June?

I thought the period started when a person entered UK but some of the posts seem to suggest otherwise.

Please guide!

Thanks!

[Wanderer]

Nationalities?

Steve

[bbdivo]

As Steve has asked Nationalties may have an influence on where to apply.

Generally speaking embassies usually want the individual to apply for the Visa in the country they normally reside in.

UK Visitor Visa's are usually valid for 6 months during which you need to enter in and you'll normally get a 6 month stamp to stay once you do enter.

[captain74]

They are both Indian Nationals and are currently in India

[John]

I think they should apply for their visitor's visas in India before they leave.

will they be able to get the visa start date of six months ahead?

Unfortunately not, a maximum of three months ahead. That would be a problem if they intended to stay in the UK for nearly six months, but not a real problem if they were intending to stay three months or less.

[captain74]

John

please clarify your last comment - is their time counted from the date of visa or from the date they enter UK?

[John]

Captain74, I think it goes like this. Say in January they are granted a visitor's visa, delayed by the maximum three months. It would start in April and if for a period of six months then it would expire in October.

Then if we assume that they do not actually enter the UK using the visa until say July .... well the expiry date is still October ... so effectively on these assumptions their maximum stay in the UK on that visa would be three months ... July to October.

Is that clear?

[captain74]

Yep clear John!

I was under the impression that your six months start when you actually enter UK (Just as bbdivo thinks)

[John]

No, the visa, when issued, will have a start date and an end date clearly specified. The person needs to ensure that they leave on or before the end date.

[captain74]

Thanks John!

In that case I think I should ask them to apply for a 1 year visa instead of a six month visa. However, it is their first trip to UK and I am not sure the visa issuing officer will grant 1 year.

Would it be taking a chance if they apply for the UK visa from US in April/May etc. I mean, is it allowed to apply for the visa away from your home country or is it prohibited by law?

[John]

Would it be taking a chance if they apply for the UK visa from US in April/May etc. I mean, is it allowed to apply for the visa away from your home country or is it prohibited by law?

I think you will find that the British Missions in the States will decline to entertain any visa application from them. Simply, they would be merely visiting the USA and not resident there. So it would not be against any law, simply they will not agree to it.

One year visa? Well in theory that would work, but in practice you have already highlighted the problem in getting a one-year visa issued. Suspect that plan would fail.

The answer is of course to go back to India after the trip to the USA and then apply for a UK visa.

[bbdivo]

No, the visa, when issued, will have a start date and an end date clearly specified. The person needs to ensure that they leave on or before the end date.

I'm not so sure about that John, Its definately the case with Working Holiday Visas, in that you have to leave on the end date stated on the Visa, but with regular Visitor Visas I'm sure they stamp the normal 6 month entry stamp unless under exceptional circumstances they give you something else?

[John]

That is how it used to work, up to I think late 2000. But now I think it is the case that specific start date and end date are printed upon the EC.

Certainly when my parents-in-law visited us using visitors visas that was the case.

Anyone able to confirm that?

bbdivo, just re-read your post. Are we confusing here those that don't need visas in advance of getting to the UK, for example citizens of the US? They could well get say six months leave when they arrive in the UK.

But the subject of this topic relates to Visa Nationals, who must always get a visa before proceeding to the UK.

[bbdivo]

I have just had a look at the manuals on the IND web site and its not 100% clear. It does say that the they (the IO) should give 6 months (or 3 months for certain EU document holders) or if the visa specifically says less then they must use what the Visa says, but not specifally to the end of the valid to date.

Here's the manual (see 2.3 and 2.6):

Chapter 2, Section 1

and heres an example of a visa (you can see the valid to from dates and the numbers of days to allow entry for):

Example EC

I suppose people with examples will tell us exactly what they are doing.

[John]

bbdivo, you refer to Chapter 2 and indeed specifically to 2.6. I think it is the second bullet point in 2.6 that is pertinent here :-

* a period of less than six months should otherwise normally only be granted if the passport is endorsed with an authorised visa signalling that a specified period of leave should be given. Authorised visas are prefixed by the duration of the visit (in days); IND or MVD; followed by a reference number of either the personal file or a general file in the IMG series

In other words if there is a visa in the passport, and that would always be the case with Visa Nationals, the start date and end date specified on the visa are pertinent here.

But come on folks, anyone who has visited the UK on a visitor visa, or who knows someone who has ..... please state your experience here.

As regards your second link .... the visa sticker .... that clearly has an end date ... of 15/11/02. So for example if that visa was used to enter the UK on say 15/10/02, the person would only get permission to stay in the UK until 15/11/02 ... not the 180 day period also mentioned on the visa.

Lots of useful information in Chapter 1, Section 4, Entry Clearance.

In particular the last paragraph of 2 reads :-

Entry clearances, conferring leave to enter, normally allow unlimited entries within the period of the validity shown on the entry clearance.

[olisun]

"Certainly when my parents-in-law visited us using visitors visas that was the case.

Anyone able to confirm that? " <== Yes I can, I told my mother to get her visitor visa in advance in March this year, with the assumption that the 6 months start from the day one enters the UK.

But it was not the case, my mother's visitor visa was valid from the day it was applied for

[bbdivo]

To be honest its not perfectly clear. I had to enter on a Visa in 1999 (so before the 2000 change) the visa had a valid from-to period of 6 months. I arrived a month into this period and was given 6 months not 5 months.

It may be something that could be challenged.

Olisun do you mean when the IO stamped your Mum's passport, he stamped it for a period less than 6 months?

[John]

bbdivo, there was a change of policy and as I pointed out in a link yesterday to this PDF file, if you go to page 4 of 14 of that you will see that the policy changed on 02.10.2000.

Prior to that date the overseas British Mission effectively only granted permission for the person to proceed to the UK to be issued with a specific type of visa on arrival. (I accept that might not be totally correct technically but that was the effect.)

But as from 02.10.2000 the overseas British Mission grants the Entry Clearance and that is put into the passport. That EC will have a defined start date and defined end date.

So bbdivo the system has certainly changed since you entered the UK on a visa back in 1999.

This issue of dates on the EC does not just affect visitor's visas. It affects all types. My wife's spouse visa was issued in March 2001. There was then a delay of about a month before she could travel to the UK. That meant quite a problem when it came to applying for ILR at or near the end of the spouse visa. In fact there was only one date that satisfied the requirement to apply before the expiry of the spouse visa, and secondly to prove she had spent enough time in the UK to qualify for ILR .... and that was the actual expiry date itself! So we went along to the PEO on that expiry date and indeed the ILR was granted.

Had we known of that problem she would have asked for the dates on the EC to be deferred, but we were unaware of the problem until too late.

[bbdivo]

Actually after reading this paragraph:

From 2 October 2000, an entry clearance (EC) which specifies the purpose for which the holder wishes to enter the UK and is endorsed with either, the conditions to which the holder is subject or “indefinite leave to enter the United Kingdom”, has effect as leave to enter, which is activated upon passing through the Immigration Control. The Entry Clearance will have a “valid from” date as well as a “valid until” date (unless it is ILE). The Immigration Officer will activate the EC by stamping the passport with the date of arrival on the first entry only. A list of the conditions of entry is attached at Annex U. Certificates of Entitlement, EEA Family Permits, Direct Airside Transit Visas and Exempt visas do not have effect as leave to enter.

its begining to make sense. As it specifically says the passport should only be stamped once on first entry only, then I guess you can either stay in the country for six months or until the "Valid until" date, whatever comes earlier.

Out of curiosity, say a person gets issued a 5 year multiple entry visa and they travel to the UK soon after the "valid from" and stay say 2 weeks. What happens if the person returns 1 week before the 6 month period is up? Do they get a new stamp or do they have to leave after the week is up?

[John]

As it specifically says the passport should only be stamped once on first entry only

Do they get a new stamp or do they have to leave after the week is up?

As you yourself have quoted, the EC is stamped only once. The person must leave the UK no later than the expiry date printed on to the EC.