Housing Benefit - partner classed as a PFA. PLEASE HELP!

[marius22]

Please help!

I'm 22 yrs old , currently in receipt of LHA - SHARED RATE.
My girlfriend is 20 yrs old, lives in Romania but she would like to come to the UK to live with me, hence no NINO and will probably be classed as PFA for benefit purposes.
If I move in a 1 bedroom self-contained flat and write to the council a change-of-circumstances letter where I explain that I will move to a 1 bedroom flat with my g/f, will I get the couple rate LHA ?

I haven't been lazy, i've been going through all the guidance I could find, even spent some time on the phone with community legal advice and nobody yet would tell me: "buy the plane ticket for your g/f, rent the flat, you'll get the couple rate regardless of what they'll class your g/f for benefit purposes"
Can somebody please tell me that?
I am familiar with the "The Social Security (National Insurance Number Information: Exemption) Regulations 2009 No. 471" though from what I've been reading some LA's might totally ignore this guidance...
I am really confused, will the council use form DCI 1LA to apply for a NINO for her ? what will happen if they get a answer back after the interview saying that they reject issuing a NINO to her ? will the council put me back to the shared rate of LHA ?
The weirdest thing ever is: "there is no provision to treat the partner who qualifies for benefit as a single person" but I found so many case-works with problems like this ...
I really hope you can help me out on this one ...

Looking forward to your reply

Thank you very very much!


Marius

[marius22]

please...

[John]

Wait a minute Marius, let's first look at the wider problem! She is an A2 national, and yes, she has the right to enter the UK. But what is she going to do once she gets here? That is, in what way does she intend to exercise her EU Treaty Rights, limited as they are by the fact that she is an A2 national.

As you will be aware, A2 nationals are not allowed to be employed without permission, but can be self-employed, a student, or self-sufficient. So in what way will she be exercising her EU Treaty Rights?

Do appreciate that as a tourist, she only has the right to be in the UK for a maximum of 3 months.

[marius22]

Hello John,

Thank you very much.

I would say that's the least of our worries... trust me on this one - about 90% of the Romanians in the UK came here as a 'tourist' and have been here for almost 3 years ... and nobody gives a damn... the home office doesn't even get involved when it comes to Europeans ...
The law says that if she is exercising a treaty right than she can apply for a registration certificate to confirm that but she is under no law obligated to do so...
I didn't want to go through the hassle of the system with her ... that was the major thing that I'm trying to avoid because I went to the jobcentre so many times with so many different people and you would be amazed by the way 'Glasgow' handles NINO applications ... they just ignore all guidlines .. for example since august 2009 you can't register as self-employed without a NINO and before it used to be the other way around, u had to be self-employed in order to apply for a NINO and now they just refuse a lot of self-employed applications because in one word they are really dearly beloved... not all of them, I got my NINO on the 3'rd appointment, I was laughing with the interviewer, he even said 'ok, so u went home and did your homework and came back prepared '
So as easy as everything would be if she'd be to work a few hours a week as self-employed and as many problems as that would solve I would still leave that as a last resort...
She will take a English course I guess but it will be a 3 month course so that's not enough to apply for a registration certificate as a student... basically I'll be sustaining her financially from my low-income...
The work restrictions are a pain in the mule and are costing the economy a lot of money ... truth is that the home office has no idea about how many eastern europeans are actually working cash in hand at the moment and the number of them that even gave their passport to their employer and they passed it on to their accountant and so on and a lot of Romanians are working as if they'd have the right to work because even the whole blue-card thing is bs ...
One thing I'm afraid of and I would be curious if anybody ever heard of the council actually doing it. When it comes to self-employment they can say that the work is 'not genuine & effective', basically because it's herratic work and not constant and so on ... and I'm afraid that if they'll take my small income and say that we both have to live off it now they might say that the work I'm doing is not genuine and effective... I don't know if the council ever played this card with somebody ...

I'm exploring all the options at the moment John and I really appreciate your help in this matter ... there plenty of CABs in the area but honestly a lot of people never dealt with complex issues regarding benefit law and wouldn't be able to advise me...

Let me know what you think ... thanks

[John]

since august 2009 you can't register as self-employed without a NINO and before it used to be the other way around

I have to say, from personal and recent experience, I don't agree with that. Without going into too much detail I can say that a client of mine, from Romania, who is self-employed, registered as self-employed and has just been issued with her NI number. No problem at all.

Maybe it is a question of providing sufficient proof that the self-employment is real?

I would say that's the least of our worries... trust me on this one - about 90% of the Romanians in the UK came here as a 'tourist' and have been here for almost 3 years

Well it is not the least of your worries, because it is so intertwined with your benefits question. In the absence of being employed (with permission), being self-employed, or being a student, what is left? Yes, being self-sufficient! And if you are self-sufficient you don't need to claim benefits, do you!

Which is why I started by asking, in what way is she intending to exercise her EU Treaty Rights, because I think that is central to your benefits question.

[marius22]

Hey John,

Thanks for the reply,

Let's say that she won't be exercising any treaty rights and they class her as a 'person from abroad' for benefit purposes, she won't pass the HRT nor the R2R... in this situation do you think the LHA will pay for the couple rate or the shared rate ?
I'm just trying to skip a lot of hassle, if she'll register as self-employed, she's not going to pay any taxes anyway on a income under £6k/yr so it's just a waste of time to do it like that ...
I'm not worried at all about the home office, she won't apply for citizenship or anything like that ... either way she'll just be my partner on the HB claim...

I went with a friend of mine about 1 month ago to a NINO identity interview or whatever they call it and he provided:
*invoices
*cash book
*letters of recommendation
*proof of address
*ID/Passport
- no self assessment as you can't register as self-employed anymore without a NINO.

about a week ago I went with another friend at the same Jobcentre ( camden ) same paperwork he got rejected and the reason was really appalling.... 'you failed to provide sufficient proof of your RIGHT TO WORK' -> I was there, he obviously said he's self-employed and not employed...
another aquaintance of mine, didn't speak almost any english, same jobcentre - camden, security guard asked him: "what's your name? what's your address?, -OK, you speak a good english, you can go upstairs alone". 15 minutes of arguing they wouldn't even call a manager downstairs, I told the guy he's not qualified to assess somebody's english level and the reception lady told me that 'due to health & safety regulations she can't allow 2 people upstairs' so I said fair enough, we'll wait for 2 people to come down so the 2 of us go up and it'll be the same number of people upstairs, she wouldn't ... I took their name, made a complaint, I got told that next time if it happens to call the 0845 number straight away ...
a lady during a interview was asking 'what have you been doing in the UK for the past year if only now you started being self-employed', answer: 'I was self-sufficient', 'what does that mean self-sufficient?, at your age and from Romania ?'
I don't even want to get into that John honestly... I found really nice people working in the same Jobcentre too but not all of them ... there is still a lot of beloved in the system and u can't even blame anybody ... the kind of people they deal with every day especially in that camden jobcentre...
they should make some clear regulations on issuing NINOs... would make life easier for a lot of people ...
btw, can you tell me if you had any clients that applied for a NINO on the grounds that they want to pay voluntary class 3 contributions ? do you know what paperwork they ask for if you apply under that criteria ?

Even if it won't be a problem with my g/f being a PFA I still don't know when I'll be able to actually move into a decent flat ... 1 month deposit, 1 month rent in advance, fees, refferences of all sorts, credit-checks ... not so easy ... especially in Westminster ...

thanks again mate.

Cheers