Accommodation requirements for spouse visa

[tigrouetoile]

I am a British citizin living in Germany with my Moroccan husband. We have both been in Germany for over five years, have been together five years, living together since Oct 2004 and married since Sep 2005.

My husband now has a permit residence and work permit for Germany but our plans were to marry towards the end of his PhD and then move to England to settle there. I have recently been offered and accepted a full-time, permanent job in Britain and so proof of financial means should not be a problem. However, I am slightly worried about proof of accommodation. The company I will be working for has offered us 1-months' temporary accommodation in the company's house and when I called the visa section in Düsseldorf to check whether this would be acceptable, the woman said she couldn't tell me - that it may be acceptable but that it may not be. It would obviously make our lives easier to use this address and find permanent accommodation when in England (due to start my new job 6th March) but what are our chances of a temporary address being accepted? We have an official letter from the company stating that they have offered us this accommodation and the address as well as a list of letting agents with which we are already registered.

Any advice??!

[John]

Yes I think that should be OK but do get the company to document exactly what is being offered. Something like :-

Mrs ABC will join this company as an employee as from (date). In order to assist in the move of her and her husband from Germany this company is making available (address) which is owned by this company. This is a 3-bedroom house and they will have exclusive use of the house for a period of one month commencing with (date). Ignoring Spam, bathroom and toilet the house has 3 rooms exceeding 50 square feet in size.

Obviously facts need to be adjusted but that should suffice.

Incidentally, what is your husband going to be applying for? There appear to be two choices. He could apply for a spouse visa, or alternatively an EEA Family Permit (given that you have clearly been exercising your treaty rights for a period exceeding six months). The application fee for a spouse visa would be €403, whereas an EEA Family Permit would be free.

The downside? If you go the paid-for route your husband could be applying for British Nationality three years after arriving. With the free route it would be four years.

[JAJ]

The downside? If you go the paid-for route your husband could be applying for British Nationality three years after arriving. With the free route it would be four years.

Perhaps the additional downside is that husband will likely be getting permanent residence later under the EEA route (four years as opposed to two).

And he could be in a more difficult situation in the UK if his British spouse was to die and he only had an EEA permit.

[ppron747]

The downside? If you go the paid-for route your husband could be applying for British Nationality three years after arriving. With the free route it would be four years.

Perhaps the additional downside is that husband will likely be getting permanent residence later under the EEA route (four years as opposed to two).

And he could be in a more difficult situation in the UK if his British spouse was to die and he only had an EEA permit.

Am I right in thinking that there's another upside, though, and that the question of accommodation isn't an issue with the EEA route?

[John]

Paul, I think I would agree with that. Also far less chance of a rejection .... not that I am suggesting that in this case an application for a spouse visa would get rejected.

And form VAF1 for an EEA Family Permit is probably easier to complete than the VAF2 for a spouse visa.

And the financials! Not just €0 or €403 in Germany ... but renewals in the UK .... £0 or .... £335 (by post) or £500 (in person at a PEO).

I think that if the OP produces evidence she is just about to move back to the UK and has a job to go to, and also evidence that she has lived and worked in Germany for (at least) six months, and of course proof that her husband is indeed her husband .... I can't see why the EEA Family Permit would not be granted speedily.

[JAJ]

I think that if the OP produces evidence she is just about to move back to the UK and has a job to go to, and also evidence that she has lived and worked in Germany for (at least) six months, and of course proof that her husband is indeed her husband .... I can't see why the EEA Family Permit would not be granted speedily.

All this presumes that husband is happy to wait a lot longer for UK permanent residence.

While UK employers are happy to employ EEA *nationals* I would wonder if those on the temporary EEA family permit may have problems finding long-term, career orientated jobs because of the fact they do not have a secure status in the UK in their own right.

Is it possible to arrive in the UK on an EEA permit and then immediately apply to the Home Office for a regular spouse visa (once established in the UK?)

[John]

All this presumes that husband is happy to wait a lot longer for UK permanent residence.

Of course

While UK employers are happy to employ EEA *nationals* I would wonder if those on the temporary EEA family permit may have problems finding long-term, career orientated jobs because of the fact they do not have a secure status in the UK in their own right.

The employer is going to examine the passport anyway. OK it might make a slight difference when on the first 6-month EEA Family Permit but any employer should take account of the readily available extensions.

Is it possible to arrive in the UK on an EEA permit and then immediately apply to the Home Office for a regular spouse visa (once established in the UK?)

I think yes BUT! But why would anyone want to do that? I think in particular that the cost of a spouse visa in Germany would be €403 ... circa £260 .... whereas the cost of applying in the UK would be £335 by post or £500 in person at a PEO.

So I think ... not a sensible plan. If they want a Spouse visa the application should be made in Germany.

[JAJ]

While UK employers are happy to employ EEA *nationals* I would wonder if those on the temporary EEA family permit may have problems finding long-term, career orientated jobs because of the fact they do not have a secure status in the UK in their own right.

The employer is going to examine the passport anyway. OK it might make a slight difference when on the first 6-month EEA Family Permit but any employer should take account of the readily available extensions.

What I'm getting at here is not so much the right to work in itself, which is a given with an EEA family permit.

More problematic from the employer's point of view is that if the person on an EEA family permit's relationship in the UK ends, their work rights end too. Which leaves the employer having to replace that person or sponsor for a work permit.

People on temporary spouse visas in Australia often encounter difficulties getting *good* jobs (despite having work rights) because many employers are unwilling to hire someone without permanent residence for anything other than casual work.

Is it possible to arrive in the UK on an EEA permit and then immediately apply to the Home Office for a regular spouse visa (once established in the UK?)

I think yes BUT! But why would anyone want to do that? I think in particular that the cost of a spouse visa in Germany would be €403 ... circa £260 .... whereas the cost of applying in the UK would be £335 by post or £500 in person at a PEO.

So I think ... not a sensible plan. If they want a Spouse visa the application should be made in Germany.

The situation I have in mind could be a case where the Spouse visa might be refused for some reason (eg accommodation). In that case, maybe an EEA family permit might give an immediate entry to the UK coupled, and allow conversion to a spouse visa directly via the Home Office.

In the context of the cost of moving countries, a few hundred pounds here or there ought not to be a primary consideration. Much more important is securing a favourable immigration status in the UK, and although it may be easier/simpler to obtain, an EEA family permit is clearly an inferior visa to a Spouse visa.

And although probably it's not applicable in this situation, the EEA family permit is an even more inferior solution to those who might be eligible for immediate permanent residence if applying through the normal Spouse route.

[tigrouetoile]

Incidentally, what is your husband going to be applying for? There appear to be two choices. He could apply for a spouse visa, or alternatively an EEA Family Permit (given that you have clearly been exercising your treaty rights for a period exceeding six months). The application fee for a spouse visa would be €403, whereas an EEA Family Permit would be free

Thanks for the advice! I hadn't considered the EEA Family Permit as I didn't think he would be eligible for this being Moroccan? He has only had the permanent work and residence permit for Germany since October 2005 when he was able to change his visa here in Germany following our marriage. However, he is keen to and needs to find a full-time job in the UK as we plan to stay there long term and he obviously wants to work. Would an EEA Family Permit make this more difficult to get full-time permanent work from the outset?

[John]

tigrouetoile, look at it this way, you are British and therefore also an EEA Citizen. Accordingly you have certain rights ... including the right to live and work in any other EEA country, and that of course includes Germany.

But your third-country national family members also have the same rights as you! However they need an EEA Family Permit in their passport to prove it.

So armed with such an EEA Family Permit your husband has the same rights to live and work in the UK as you do. So no problem him legally working in the UK once that issued-by-the-UK EEA Family Permit is in his passport .... because he has the same treaty rights as you!

Would an EEA Family Permit make this more difficult to get full-time permanent work from the outset?

I know that was mentioned earlier in this topic but I would be surprised if having that EEA Family Permit was looked upon by potential employers as inferior in any way. Although initially for six months, renewal in the UK will be easy to obtain ..... although not particularly quick for IND to process ... somehow they don't seem to give the same priority to EEA applications that are free!

[tigrouetoile]

Thanks. I have had a look at the info for EEA Family Permits and have indeed seen that as an EEA member, my non-EEA member husband is entitled to the same rights as me, but to enter the UK requires the permit in his passport. The procedure seems fairly similar to the spouse visa and of course it is a hell of a lot cheaper.

I know that was mentioned earlier in this topic but I would be surprised if having that EEA Family Permit was looked upon by potential employers as inferior in any way. Although initially for six months, renewal in the UK will be easy to obtain ..... although not particularly quick for IND to process ... somehow they don't seem to give the same priority to EEA applications that are free!

It seems the EEA Family Permit may be worth considering, especially as my husband is not looking to become a British citizin. My only concern, however, would be whether it would jeopardise his changes of getting a good job, of which he is very capable given his qualifications and skills, but if you think this shouldn't be a problem, we will certainely look into it.

And you think renewal is easy to obtain? When you say that it is not a particularly quick process, how far in advance would this need to be done?

I have to admit my own terrible ignorance when it comes to this type of knowlege and thank you for your advice as this is an option I would never have worked out myself from the uk visas website!

Rachel

[tigrouetoile]

Also, just a thought, will it be of any disadvantage that my husband is completing his PhD and has not been working since end May 2005? Just looking at the application forms and the boxes for information about employment...

Am probably being overly paranoid, but it is important to us and our future that he can get a visa or permit and the best possible one so that we can settle down in the UK properly.

[John]

tigrouetoile , just been looking at the form VAF1. Although your husband would tick the "A non-EEA dependant of an EEA national" box on the VAF1, the form itself doesn't particularly cope well with such applications.

Whilst section 6 cannot be ignored I don't think you need to worry about honestly completing that section. Evidence supplied with the application will include details of your new employment and therefore show that there is no problem with finances.

Clearly Section 7 can be left blank, as of course can 8 and 9. Section 10 should be used to mention that you have been exercising your treaty rights for in excess of six months ... indeed for five years ... and the supporting evidence must confirm that. Also the marriage certificate needs to be supplied.

If you are still worried about Section 6, appreciate that the same form VAF1 would be completed by a housewife, or house-husband, or indeed anyone not employed for money, if they are applying for an EEA Family Permit.

Problems getting a job? I don't see that a problem would arise. Your husband has the right to live and work in the UK.

[JAJ]

T
It seems the EEA Family Permit may be worth considering, especially as my husband is not looking to become a British citizin.

The longer period to get permanent residence ought still to be a concern, even if he is not interested in becoming a British citizen.

[JAJ]

tigrouetoile, look at it this way, you are British and therefore also an EEA Citizen. Accordingly you have certain rights ... including the right to live and work in any other EEA country, and that of course includes Germany.

But your third-country national family members also have the same rights as you! However they need an EEA Family Permit in their passport to prove it.

So armed with such an EEA Family Permit your husband has the same rights to live and work in the UK as you do. So no problem him legally working in the UK once that issued-by-the-UK EEA Family Permit is in his passport .... because he has the same treaty rights as you!

With respect - no he doesn't. He only has the right to *accompany* his spouse, not live in the UK in his own right. This becomes an issue when relationships end.

I know that was mentioned earlier in this topic but I would be surprised if having that EEA Family Permit was looked upon by potential employers as inferior in any way.

ANY non-permanent visa is by definition inferior to a permanent one, from the point of view of an employer. Any employer interested in hiring for the long term will look beyond the simple question of whether a person has an immediate right to work in the UK, but also whether that right is dependent on something else.

A prudent employer would think hard before taking on someone for a career-orientated job where that person is on a temporary spouse visa or EEA family permit and hence could be forced to leave the UK anytime (if relationship with spouse ends).

An EEA permit leaves you as a temporary resident for four years, while a regular spouse visa leaves you as a temporary resident for two => the EEA permit is hence an inferior visa to a Spouse visa. Cheaper maybe - but then you get what you pay for.

[JAJ]

Paul, I think I would agree with that. Also far less chance of a rejection .... not that I am suggesting that in this case an application for a spouse visa would get rejected.

And form VAF1 for an EEA Family Permit is probably easier to complete than the VAF2 for a spouse visa.

And the financials! Not just €0 or €403 in Germany ... but renewals in the UK .... £0 or .... £335 (by post) or £500 (in person at a PEO).

Assuming one qualifies for both an EEA family permit and a regular spouse visa, what it seems to boil down to is that you pay EUR403 (plus the ILR fee - GBP335?) and in return get Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) two years sooner. Or four years sooner (ie, immediately) if a long-term relationship.

I am surprised that so many people put such a low price on the privilege of having ILR.

While it is true that currently, there is no fee for EEA family permit holders to get ILR after 4 years (provided the application is made on the basis of relationship to the EEA national, not the individual's own circumstances), that could easily be changed. The UK cannot charge for the EEA family permit itself, but I see no reason why those seeking ILR could not be charged whatever fee the Home Office felt like charging. There is therefore no guarantee of a financial saving in the long run.

The difference will become even more stark if the four year period to get ILR off an EEA permit goes up to five years.