doubts on my EEAFP visa

[apenteado]

Hello!

First of all I’d like to say that I’m amazed with the quality of the posts in this forum. There are only two days I’ve been browsing trough different topics and I’ve already learnt so much!

But, I haven’t found the answers for some specific questions I have. I hope you guys may help me.

I’m a Brazilian photographer (www.andrepenteado.com) married with half Brazilian half Hugarian lovely woman:-). Last year she got an scholarship to do an one year fulltime masters on Psychology at LSE (from oct/05 – sep/06) and we decided moving to London. As I had already had lots of assignments until last December I arrived only in the last days of 2005.
As she has her Hungarian passport I got an “EEAFP: to join spouse” visa. We wrote in my application that we were thinking about staying here for two years due to the fact she wants to work in her field after finishing her course.

Now, here are my questions:

1) The British Consulate in Brazil issued a visa valid for 6 months only (it expires on 26/04/05) and told me I’d had to renew it here. Is it the usual?
Do I need any special documents or procedure to renew it or I just have to go to the Home Office with my passport?
2) The Consulate told me I was allowed to work legally in the UK. Is that right? (just double checking) I read that when my wife finds a job she’ll have to register under the “Worker Registration Scheme”. Do the same apply to me? When I find a job will my passport and my visa be enough to show the employer I can work legally? Or do I need another document?
3) I may work as a Freelancer Photographer (for magazines) or as an assistant for a Photographer. Do these options have different rules? Is the first consider self-employed?
4) My wife is already registered under the NHS. Am I entitled to do the same?
5) almost the last one: does anyone recommend a good and cheap English Course. I know that if I want to live here for two years I have to improve my language skills.
6) Finally the last one: does anyone know if there is a problem with the Immigration and Nationality Directorate website? I've been trying to use it for the last three days without success. It takes so long to load it that I always quit...

I'd like to thank you in advance for any help you may offer!

Andre

[Rogerio]

Hi Andre,

welcome to Britain from a fellow Brazilian.

Amazing photos on your website. Congratulations!

I can try and answer some of your questions, and undoubtedly some of our other friends on here will contribute further. Using your numbering, here it goes:

1) will let others answer

2) Your wife will have to register, as these rules apply for the newly joined European Union Countries. This does not apply to you. When you find a job, your passport containing the visa is sufficient to prove your entitlement to work for the future employer.

You may want to print off documentation from the Home Office pages to show to the employer, just as a backup. Try looking at the following Home Office webpage, as it contains a summary of all stamps and their meanings.

The page can be found at
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... tamps.html

3) You are free to take up any kind of employment in the UK, either self employed, or employed.

4) Yes, your local surgery will only need your passport & proof of residence in the area. Ring them first to check what exact documents they will need from you. When you join them, you will typically be initially seen by a nurse to do a check up on you, blood tests etc. Then you're free to make appointments to see your GP (general practioner = doctor).

5) I am assuming you are in London. Some friends have chosen to take their English language course at the Hammersmith and West London College. Not many Brazilians go there, which forces you to socialise with other nationalities. However there are hundreds of English Language Courses in London. I would consult the British Council website and get the full listing of approved courses. These approved courses are regularly monitored by the British Council to ensure proper methodology is being used to teach English as a foreign language.

You can find the British Council website at http://www.britishcouncil.org/home and navigate there to "learning English in the UK" section.

6) The IND website has hiccups every now and then. I just tried now and it is awfully slow. Hopefully it will go back to normal in a day or two.

All the best for you and your wife and drop me a line if you want to ask something else.

Regards

Rogerio (brzuk@hotmail.com)

[John]

Andre, further to the post from Rogerio, and using your numbering :-

1. Yes, totally normal. There used to be an initial period of 12 months but now just six months.
2. Nothing to add to Rogerio's post
3. Same
4. Same
5. Same
6. The IND website is painfully slow, particularly during working hours. Suggest you try again in the evening or at a weekend.

About applying for an extension near the end of the 6 months, well I would post you a link to the IND website ... but it is too slow to do that at the moment. I shall post again later.

[apenteado]

Rogerio and Jhon,

Thank you very much for all of your answers.
The IND site is getting me mad! I know all the information I need is there but I can't reach it!!! Well I'll keep trying...

I've been dealing with a problem that probably will hit me again when I try to register under NHS: I still don't have a proof of residence. I've been here for just 14 days.

I know I'll need one to open an bank account (I can't join my wife's account because she has an student account and it doesn't allow a second user) and to get a mobille I need a bank account....do you have any clue how do I get out of this looping situation?

Thanks!

[Rogerio]

My twopence.... I suggest that the first port of call would be the bank where your wife holds her account. They know she is a student, and obviously will know she is married to you.

Here's a list of the some UK banks:

HSBC (0800 032 4738)
NatWest (0800 200 400)
Barlcays (0500 007 234)
Halifax (log onto their website and leave your number, they'll ring you back)
Lloyds TSB (0800 056 0020)
Abbey (0800 587 2758)
Nationwide 0800 30 20 10
Intelligent Finance www.if.com

As to the Mobile, have you thought of a Pay As You Go mobile, at least for the time being? I am not sure what the requirements are, but will certainly not be as strict as a contract phone.

Contract Phones normally require a search of your credit rating with companies such as Equifax and Experian, which in the UK hold everyone's credit rating information. As you don't have any history of credit, you are very likely to be denied a contract mobile. So the sooner you start working, and having a bank account, and get credit the better to start building your credit history over here.

Experian and Equifax (and a couple of smaller ones whose names I don't know) use a mixture of items to assess your credit worthiness: if you are registered in the electoral roll (your wife can be for local elections, but not for general elections, but you can't be as you're not a national of any EU country or of the Commonwealth), length of such registration, credit agreements and if you have defaulted in any payment, and length of residence in your current address. As you can see, these take years to build.... so brace yourself!

And remember, as soon as you register with your GP, you will receive an NHS card stating your name and address, and you can use that as a proof of address too. The earlier you register with the GP the sooner you will get the card.

Another source of information for you is www.oilondres.co.uk which is a website for Brazilians in the UK. It contains a whole load of useful information as to immigration issues, opening bank accounts issues, cheap phone cards to Brazil, mobile on PAYG and on contract, etc. Maybe you'd like to have a look at that website and see if there are any tips you can get.

[John]

As to the Mobile, have you thought of a Pay As You Go mobile, at least for the time being? I am not sure what the requirements are, but will certainly not be as strict as a contract phone.

There basically are no requirements ... apart from having a mobile phone! Having a prepay phone, at least initially, solves the problem of not appearing on any credit reference agency in the UK.

Just top-up whenever you need.

[apenteado]

Thank you very much again guys!

I'll work on all the information you gave me and if ou need a photographer just email me!

[John]

Earlier in this topic I said I would provide a link to the form that needs to be completed to get the extension shortly before the six months are up :-

Form FMRS

That form, Apenteado, is appropriate because your wife is from an A8 country and is still registered on the WRS.

[JAJ]

As she has her Hungarian passport I got an “EEAFP: to join spouse” visa. We wrote in my application that we were thinking about staying here for two years due to the fact she wants to work in her field after finishing her course.

Now, here are my questions:

1) The British Consulate in Brazil issued a visa valid for 6 months only (it expires on 26/04/05) and told me I’d had to renew it here. Is it the usual?
Do I need any special documents or procedure to renew it or I just have to go to the Home Office with my passport?
2) The Consulate told me I was allowed to work legally in the UK. Is that right? (just double checking) I read that when my wife finds a job she’ll have to register under the “Worker Registration Scheme”. Do the same apply to me? When I find a job will my passport and my visa be enough to show the employer I can work legally? Or do I need another document?

Be aware that after 4 years working in the UK you can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). This is a more secure status in the UK (with more rights) than an EEA family permit, and is necessary should you want to become a British citizen by naturalisation.

The 4 year period may be increased to five in the near future. Your wife should also obtain ILR once she is qualified.

You also need to know that any children you have born in the UK won't automatically be British citizens unless you have ILR at the time. If born before ILR they can be registered as British citizens once you get ILR, or anytime after age 10 if they grow up until then in the UK.

You should both check whether Brazil and Hungary allow you to keep your citizenship should you ultimately decide to become naturalised British citizens.

[Rogerio]

Brazil does allow for Multiple citizenships.

[apenteado]

John,

I read the form but I still have a doubt:

Section 3 says

"Employment Certification for your family member who holds a Worker
Registration Card and a Worker Registration Certificate
This section is to be completed by the employer of your family member who holds a Worker Registration Card and a
Worker Registration Certificate"

The point is that Laura is studying and won't be looking for a job until next September and I'll have to renew my visa in April. In the other hand, we can proof that we have enough savings to live here within this situation.

Do you think this will be a problem?

Thanks again for all you guys helping me in my new life!!

[apenteado]

Sorry John,

But I have two more questions:

How much time before the expiration of my visa do you think I shoul apply for the renew?

All will I need are this form filled and my passport?

Thanks again!

[John]

Hi, have you downloaded the form FMRS? If not you need to do that. On page 5 of 8 it lists the documentary requirements.

When to apply? I think say 28 days before your current EEA Family Permit expires. Do appreciate that you will need to post your application to the Croydon address given on page 5. It is not possible to apply by post.

Expect it to take two or three months for the application to be decided, in other words, you will hear back after the stated expiry date. However legislation commonly known as "Section 3C" comes to your rescue. That is, if the new application is made prior to the stated expiry date, and you have still not heard back by that date, the EEA Family Permit is "treated as continuing". So you are not an overstayer, and you are allowed to continue to work while they deal with your application.

Take a photocopy of the name and pic page of your passport, and also the EEA Family Permit, before you post your application, and of course use Special Delivery to post to Croydon ... giving you proof that the application has been made on a stated date, and thus Section 3C is in play.

[apenteado]

Hi John.


I read the documents list more carefully now...sorry about asking...

But I still have a doubt on it. It may sound silly, but just now I realized that the British Consulate in Brazil didn't explain me the hole process. When I received my visa and saw the expirate date I emailed the Consulate and asked about the renewing process. They told I'd just have to go to the Home Office. They didn't mention anything about documents like my marriage certificate. As I had already shown it to then to get my visa there, I didn't bring it.

So now I understan I should ask my mom to have it translated to English (they didn't ask that in Brazil) and send me it. Is that right?

And it's still not clear for me the point about Laura (my wife) not having a job. She doesn't have a Worker REgistration Card and a Work Registration Certificate and won't have it until april (my renew date) once she's studying. What should I do?

Thanks again for your patience.

[bbdivo]

Just a repsonse to question 5. Do you really need to go on an english course?!! Your English seems pretty good to me!!

[John]

Apenteado, from the technical point of view this is very interesting! I have been delving on the IND website, and particularly in the EDIs .... the instructions that IND give to its staff on European issues.

Chapter 14 is very relevant here. Click here to download.

It states in the key points in 1 that even A8 nationals have the right during the transitional period :-

to visit, live, study in any Member State

And that of course is exactly what your wife is doing.

At the beginning of 5 it then states that family members of A8 nationals who are exempt from the WRS can apply for residence permits. Could that mean that because your wife is studying and not working, and thus not required to register under the WRS that you can apply for a residence permit.

If that is indeed the case then instead of using form FMRS you should instead use Form EEA2. The wording on that form confirms it should be used if your EEA National spouse is, for example, studying.

At the same time as you apply on form EEA2 your wife should also apply on Form EEA1. She would certainly complete Section 5 of that form to confirm that she is exercising her treaty rights as a student in the UK.

Other opinions most welcome!

[Rogerio]

Andre

1. You will need your docummentation translated into English - but that needs to be done via a certified translator (traducao juramentada, in Portuguese).

This can be done either in Brazil, or here. My recommendation is, get this translated in Brazil, as it will be considerably cheaper than having it done here. You will find many certified translators advertising their services on the web, or if you call the Sociedade Brasileira de Cultura Inglesa in Brazil (whatever state you come from) they will be able to give you a few names. Alternatively, you may trying ringing the British Embassy in Rio, or the Consulates in other states.

2. As John has said, your wife does not need to register if she is not working, therefore not being required to have the card (and nor are you)and she is exercising her treaty rights by being a student here, and bringing you along as her husband.

3. I believe John's forms are the correct ones, but if you are still unsure of which form to fill in when the time comes for you to renew your visa (and your wife's), I would suggest calling the Application Forms Unit of the Home Office, who will be able to help you identify the correct one. You can telephone them on 0870 241 0645.

Maybe you could give them a call now, certify which form you need, read the form, get the list of the required evidence you will need, and in that manner you will have plenty of time to prepare yourself with the docummentation, certified translation, etc.

IMHO, you are right to prepare in advance, but don't get overworried. I am sure that the Home Office has had many people in exactly the same situation before.

4. Another source of good independent information is the Immigration Advisory Service ( http://www.iasuk.org/ ). From their website, "The IAS is the UK’s largest charity providing confidential advice and representation in immigration, asylum and nationality law".

My 2p.

Best of luck,

Rogerio

[apenteado]

Once again thank you very much for all your help guys!

I believe now I have a good path to follow. I need to study all this information and if I still have trouble I will post it in the forum again.

Best regards,

André

[AlexCosta]

Hi Andre,

I'm planning to go to England this year, and I also have a Family permit that will expire on April.

My question is: Do you have to come to Brazil to renew your VISA, or you can renew it in England or another coutry (closer to England)?

How do you plan to manage this situation?

Best regards, and good luck.

Alex

[John]

Alex, it is totally unclear from "I'm planning to go to England this year" exactly when you are intending to go to England? Before the expiry of the EEA Family Permit? After? It does make quite a difference!

Can you clarify please.

[apenteado]

Hi Alex.

I think I'm not the right person to help you once I've just started studying the subject.

But, anyway I know as I have an EEA-FP I don't have to leave the country to renew it. I doesn't work as a tourist visa.

In this forum you'll find people with the knowledge to help you.

Best regards,

André

[AlexCosta]

Hi John,

I'm planning to go before April, that's why I made the question.

I'm concerned with the possibility to arrive in England on March, and have to leave on April to renew my VISA.

My VISA is an EEA Family Permit, and I thought I could only renew it in my home country.

If this is true I will probably reschedule my trip.

Thanks,

Alex

[John]

Alex, having cleared that up, so you intend to go to the UK in March, once you are there you should submit an application for an extension in the UK. It is not necessary to return to Brazil to apply for the extension.

But just picking up on the wording you have chosen to use .... "I'm planning to go to England this year" ...... When you say "I", do you mean "We"? That is, where is the EEA Citizen in all this? Already in the UK? Or planning to move there at the same time as you?

[AlexCosta]

Hi John,

Thanks for your help.

You are right, I'm planning to go with my wife, and kids. They are in Brazil with me, and they have Portuguese nationality.

Best regards,

Alex

[John]

Alex, OK I understand.

When the two of you have got to the UK your wife should make an application on Form EEA1 on behalf of herself and the children, and at the same time you should submit a Form EEA2.

There will be no charge for those applications. I emphasise that the EEA1 and EEA2 forms should only be used after the two of you have got to the UK.