Me (UK Citizen) Wife (LTR) New Baby (Born in UK)

[strake]

If this is somewhere on the board, please accept my apologies..I did try to search..honest.

I am a UK citizen and my wife is on an LTR that expires in October 2006. We intend to apply for an ILR around August and would then wait for the three years from first entry etc etc to apply for citizenship. Citizenship is important to us for a number of reasons, the main one being we both travel a lot and visa issues for my wife (Yakutian subject of Russian Federation) are a complete pain....
However, we have just become proud parents of a daughter (in London) and I wondered if that event can in any way shortcut the route to my wifes citizenship given she is a: Married to a Brit and b: the Mother of one...
Many thanks in advance

[John]

Hi, congratulations on the birth of the child. But the birth makes no difference to when your wife can apply for Naturalisation as British.

So her current two-year spouse visa expires in October 2006 so presumably was granted in October 2004. Question ... when did your wife enter the UK? After that spouse visa was issued in Russia? Or was she here in the UK prior to that, for example on a fiancée visa? If so, again, when did she enter the UK?

The main reason for asking this is that she will need to pass the "was physically in the UK exactly three years before IND receive the naturalisation application" test. So, for example, if she first came to the UK in October 2004 then it will not be until sometime in October 2007 that she could possibly pass that test.

There are other tests as well. Since arriving have there been long periods of time outside the UK?

And do note that she either needs to pass the Citizenship Test, or alternatively get a completion certificate from a combined ESOL/Citizenship course. What is her standard of English like?

Finally, being married to a British Citizen, does it make any difference to when your wife can apply for naturalisation? Indeed, yes .... a three-year qualifying period instead of five years.

[strake]

John,

Many thanks for your quick response.

These are the key dates and answers to your note:
1. From Jan 2000 to Dec 2003, a number of Visitor and Business visas (probably irrelevant?)

2. 09 April 2004 Fiance Visa (took-up residence 23 April 2004)

3. 10 October 2004 Leave to Remain Issued

4. No individual trip outside the UK longer than 14 days.

5. Language/English no prob..

Thanks again

[John]

Using your numbering :-

1. Maybe not irrelevant at all! Any times in the UK from 27.02.03 (three years ago today) up to and including 23.04.04 (when she entered using the fiancée visa) .... can you list exact dates of entry into the UK and dates of leaving. Any such visits might assist very considerably!
2. Noted
3. Noted
4. Noted
5. OK, but she will need to study for and pass the Citizenship Test in order to be permitted to apply for Naturalisation. If not already started she should start studying ASAP.

[strake]

John,

Multi-Visa issued 22 August 2003 to 22 February 2004 had the following trips. Only the first visit was stamped at Heathrow but we know all the dates:

1. 10 October 2003- 27 October 2003

2. 26 December 2003- 02 January 2004

3. 09 January 2004-25th January 2004

Then Fiance Visa entrance 23 April 2004...

Hope that helps..

[John]

OK, assuming the times outside the UK have not been excessive since your wife arrived in the UK on the fiancée visa it appears to me she can apply, shall we say, on Wednesday 11th October 2006, but if she is going to apply in October 2006 then the application must be received by IND in Liverpool no later than say 25th October 2006.

Let's assume that the application is posted to Liverpool on 10th October, or preferably she goes to an NCS office that day, so the application is received in Liverpool on 11th October 2006 :-

• the three-year qualifying period is from 12.10.03 to 11.10.06 and she was in the UK at the commencement of that three-year period
• during the three-year qualifying period she was not absent from the UK for more than 270 days
• during the last year of the qualifying period, that is, from 12.10.05 to 11.10.06, she was not absent from the UK for more than 90 days
• she has ILR in her passport
• she has passed the Citizenship Test

There is a bit of leeway on those 270 and 90 day numbers but not a lot.

So the question is ... even taking the pre-fiancée visa absence periods into account .... 27.10.03 to 26.12.03 and 02.01.04 to 09.01.04 and 25.01.04 to 23.04.04 ... can she meet the 270 day test in the three-year qualifying period? If so it looks likely that she can apply in October 2006 as indicated above.

But she does need to study for and pass the Citizenship Test! She can start studying now ... no need to wait until near October.

Hope this helps.

[strake]

John,

Thanks.

I'm sure there is no problem with the 270 days but I thought we were only allowed to apply for ILR after two years on LTR..ie October 2006.

[John]

I thought we were only allowed to apply for ILR after two years on LTR..ie October 2006.

In the opening message in this topic you stated :-

my wife is on an LTR that expires in October 2006. We intend to apply for an ILR around August

In fact the application for ILR must be made in the last 28 days of validity of the 2-year spouse visa. As you later posted that was issued on 10.10.04 you can clearly apply for ILR by mid-September. If that application is made in person at a PEO then it should be issued on a same-day basis. Even by post it should take say 3 to 4 weeks, hopefully permitting the Naturalisation application to be made before her cut-off date near the end of October (given she went abroad on 27.10.03).

Applying for the ILR in person at a PEO would tend to cut out any delay in making the Naturalisation application.

Does that help?

[strake]

John,

Many thanks..I understand.

Your advice is invaluable....
I'll update you later in the year.

Thanks so much again.

[Kayalami]

John,

Multi-Visa issued 22 August 2003 to 22 February 2004 had the following trips. Only the first visit was stamped at Heathrow but we know all the dates:

1. 10 October 2003- 27 October 2003

2. 26 December 2003- 02 January 2004

3. 09 January 2004-25th January 2004

Then Fiance Visa entrance 23 April 2004...

Hope that helps..

My interpretation of the rules pertaining to extant leave continuing during an absence from the UK and such being solely for visas issued effecting leave to enter or remain for longer than 6 months means that IMHO the 'residence clock counter' for naturalisation purposes commenced on 23 April 2004. Thus naturalisation would be on or after 23 April 2007. It is worthwhile getting a definitive/ second opinion on this.

[John]

Of course more opinions very welcome on this.

In Annex B, Chapter 18 of the IND instructions to its staff dealing with Naturalisation applications I can spot no reference to the rule you mention. Indeed at 2.3 it states :-

Physical presence here is normally sufficient for the purpose of the Act. The applicant does not have to have been ordinarily resident or domiciled here. Normally, an applicant is to be regarded as present in the United Kingdom unless physically absent; but in certain circumstances, the Act requires periods of physical presence to be treated as absences (see paragraph 9 below).

In the same annex there is a section headed :-

8. Breaches of the immigration laws during the 5/3 year qualifying period

-: which does not appear to restrict the terms under which someone might be legally in the UK.

But as said above, other views very welcome.

[strake]

Thank you both for your further comments. I guess it's worth testing in October on the basis that the worst that can happen is we are told to come back in six months.

[John]

There are at least a couple of other member of this Board extremely knowledgeable on British Citizenship issues. Hopefully one or more will post an opinion in this topic in the near future.

[ppron747]

My interpretation of the rules pertaining to extant leave continuing during an absence from the UK and such being solely for visas issued effecting leave to enter or remain for longer than 6 months means that IMHO the 'residence clock counter' for naturalisation purposes commenced on 23 April 2004. Thus naturalisation would be on or after 23 April 2007. It is worthwhile getting a definitive/ second opinion on this.

I can't offer a definitive - or even a second - opinion, Kayalami. Will a third do? I suspect you're eliding two different things - the rules for achieving ILR under the Immigration Rules, and the requirements for naturalisation under the BNA 1981.

I don't think the Act particularly cares what sort of presence you had in the UK, so long you were physically present, and you were not here illegally.

It seems to me that, to give an extreme case, it would be entirely within requirements of the Act for an individual to come to the UK on a weekend break, and then to leave the UK for up to 270 days. He/she would then return to the UK and remain here, rooted to the spot, until the third anniversary of the original weekend break.

Provided that on that day three years later the person was married to a BC, and had ILR, there is no reason why he/she shouldn't submit a successful naturalisation application. There's no requirement that the 270 days permitted absence has to be spread out across the three years.

I don't do arithmetic, so I don't know whether John's figures are correct, but I'm sure he's thinking along the right lines.

kind regards

[strake]

Just a quick note to thank all who gave advice here.

This morning, my wife received a letter asking her to make an appointment for a Citizenship Ceremony.

To summarise for others who may be interested:

Spouse Visa May 2004
LTR Sept 2004
ILR Oct 2006
Applied Nat Sept 9 2007 Granted Nov 29 2007

A fairly easy journey overall...if you try not to think of the cost......

[John]

strake, congratulations ... especially to your soon-to-be-British wife!

Of course she is not yet British, but once she has attended the CC, do ensure that she is added to the Electoral Register (unless of course she is already on the register as a Commonwealth citizen).

[avjones]

COngratulations!