Immigration Cap

[dev106]

Does anyone know when they are going to announce about the extra 5-points for the in-country new applicants(tier-1 general)????and also what for that 5-points are???

[MJNair]

Article 8 of European Commission for Human Rights says:

Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life
1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.
2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Of all these points mentioned.. we do not seem to fall under any of the exceptions here... national security, public safety, economic well being of the country (we are important for the economy right... we may have to start paying for NHS), protection of health or morals, disorder or crime and freedom of others.

Any lawyers here?

[MJNair]

Let us wait for a couple of weeks more until further details are published on how exactly they are going to implement the changes from July 19th to April 2010. We can then send the petition or letter accordingly.

Do we really know more details will come?

Should we just wait till Dec? Or the best way would be try to have an affect on MAC (if we can).

Let us not wait until December. I think we should start sending our petitions and letter soon after July 19th, when they publish the details of the interim cap. Since they are going to cap the CoS applications for T2, we will get a better idea on how the T1 may be capped (if they intend to cap it)

This will give us enough time to discuss with the HSMP forum and come up with a good letter and petition

[ldbright]

Let us wait for a couple of weeks more until further details are published on how exactly they are going to implement the changes from July 19th to April 2010. We can then send the petition or letter accordingly.

Do we really know more details will come?

Should we just wait till Dec? Or the best way would be try to have an affect on MAC (if we can).

Let us not wait until December. I think we should start sending our petitions and letter soon after July 19th, when they publish the details of the interim cap. Since they are going to cap the CoS applications for T2, we will get a better idea on how the T1 may be capped (if they intend to cap it)

This will give us enough time to discuss with the HSMP forum and come up with a good letter and petition

I totally agree with you. We should be united at this very moment to make sure that our basic rights are protected!

[GSOtodd]

I just have to ask this. Have any of you asked yourselves what is the point of staying in this country and going through all this when there are other countries in the EU and in other places where we could spend our time feeling welcome and working and living without uncertainity? I have gone to bed every night wondering, why bother if they don't want us here. I don't think the US has changed their immigration laws as much as we have changed ours in the past four years.

I'm sure our talents will be appreciated more in other areas. Life is to short to live in uncertainity when we don't have to.

[ukswus]

I just have to ask this. Have any of you asked yourselves what is the point of staying in this country and going through all this when there are other countries in the EU and in other places where we could spend our time feeling welcome and working and living without uncertainity? I have gone to bed every night wondering, why bother if they don't want us here. I don't think the US has changed their immigration laws as much as we have changed ours in the past four years.

I'm sure our talents will be appreciated more in other areas. Life is to short to live in uncertainity when we don't have to.

Good point. The only reason why I moved here in the first place was that Tier 1 visa used to be much better than H1B in the US, in that it allowed employment of dependents, and put people on clear path to settlement, provided they complied with rules.

However, this advantage that still Tier 1 has is quickly dissipating. Given that salaries are considerably higher in the US, taxes lower, and public opinion about LEGAL immigration is far from being as toxic as it is here, I expect the US (and possibly Canada and Australia) will increasingly be a magnet for skilled migrants currently living in the UK.

[GSOtodd]

I came from the US. However, hopefully I'll be able to get ILR in January but still, no guarantees.

[ukswus]

I came from the US. However, hopefully I'll be able to get ILR in January but still, no guarantees.

This may be slightly off-topic, but having lived both in the US and in Europe for a number of years, I feel that if given a choice, I would move to the US, without giving a second thought.

The problem is, most people on this forum don't have such choices, and have to "take it, or leave it", when leaving is rarely a feasible option.

[muhandis.ak]

I guess the choice of country you'd want to migrate to is very subjective & personal. For me, I couldn't dream of being more than a 8-9 hr flight away from India, so countries like the US/Canada are a strict no-no and UK is ideal!

Kala

I came from the US. However, hopefully I'll be able to get ILR in January but still, no guarantees.

This may be slightly off-topic, but having lived both in the US and in Europe for a number of years, I feel that if given a choice, I would move to the US, without giving a second thought.

The problem is, most people on this forum don't have such choices, and have to "take it, or leave it", when leaving is rarely a feasible option.

[Pierrot95]

I just have to ask this. Have any of you asked yourselves what is the point of staying in this country and going through all this...

If only you could be 20 everyday...
It is not easy to start evrything from scratch. We invested our time, our skills and our expectation in this country. Is it that easy to move? Is there any office where I can make an appointment and get out with a package including a permanent job in my domain of expertise, a house with a good deal mortgage arranged, school for the kids with their many years friends, an acceptable job for the spouse and permanent residency cards (or green cards or any equivalent cards) for the whole family? I would leave next week.

====

[letmec2006]

With all the hind-sight, I wouldnt have come out of my country and the position I was in, if I have a second chance. Unfortunately, I cant go back in time or having lived here I can't go back to the same position I was in. But who can determine the future???

[MJNair]

I just have to ask this. Have any of you asked yourselves what is the point of staying in this country and going through all this...

If only you could be 20 everyday...
It is not easy to start evrything from scratch. We invested our time, our skills and our expectation in this country. Is it that easy to move? Is there any office where I can make an appointment and get out with a package including a permanent job in my domain of expertise, a house with a good deal mortgage arranged, school for the kids with their many years friends, an acceptable job for the spouse and permanent residency cards (or green cards or any equivalent cards) for the whole family? I would leave next week.

====

Same thoughts here.. We've put in a lot to get where we are..

[layman]

My two pence. I understand it is a difficult situation to be in, with frequently changing immigration laws. But why is there an expectation that the UK immigration laws should take care of the immigrants problems arising out of the changing laws?

Immigration has been allowed only to benefit UK, basically to fill in the shortage of skilled resources and get the job done. The fact that we get to fulfill our aspirations is just a by-product for the UK government. The first and foremost priority would always be keeping the local population happy.

No, I am not saying that there should be no protest. But I would not pin my hopes on favourable immigration laws and make life's important decisions based on presumptions. Always have a back-up plan or atleast be mentally prepared for the worst.

[ldbright]

My two pence. I understand it is a difficult situation to be in, with frequently changing immigration laws. But why is there an expectation that the UK immigration laws should take care of the immigrants problems arising out of the changing laws?

Immigration has been allowed only to benefit UK, basically to fill in the shortage of skilled resources and get the job done. The fact that we get to fulfill our aspirations is just a by-product for the UK government. The first and foremost priority would always be keeping the local population happy.

No, I am not saying that there should be no protest. But I would not pin my hopes on favourable immigration laws and make life's important decisions based on presumptions. Always have a back-up plan or atleast be mentally prepared for the worst.

If tier 1 (G) holders’ initial decisions were made based on the assumption that we are only going to be allowed to stay in the UK temporally, I believe that many of us will make different arrangement i.e choose not to come to the UK. However, it is not student visa or visitor visa that we applied, final settlement is part of the deal that encouraged majority of us come to this country and start a new life at the first place. We are not entitled to claim any benefit despite paying full tax and NI. UK have benefited from the skills and hard work that we have provided but now just want to kick us off the boat. I know life isn’t fair—but this is life changing time and just too important to just accept whatever given to us and give it up without a fight.
Look at what’s happened to HSMP’s case and even the Gurkha Justice Campaign. We need to learn from them—at least they did not leave their own destiny in others’ hand.

[willnotbackHSMP]

I just have to ask this. Have any of you asked yourselves what is the point of staying in this country and going through all this...

If only you could be 20 everyday...
It is not easy to start evrything from scratch. We invested our time, our skills and our expectation in this country. Is it that easy to move? Is there any office where I can make an appointment and get out with a package including a permanent job in my domain of expertise, a house with a good deal mortgage arranged, school for the kids with their many years friends, an acceptable job for the spouse and permanent residency cards (or green cards or any equivalent cards) for the whole family? I would leave next week.

====

We are all HSMPians ( before April'06) know the pain and stress when Home Office tried to put extra bar for extension and wanted to give us ILR after 5 years instead of 4 years. But history says, HSMPians went to court and forced them to bow down & keep their promise exactly what was given to us. BUT, the basic difference is that HSMPian ( now Tire-1) who came after Nov '06 had to sign as acknowledgement that immigration law in UK can be changed in future and it can affect them.

[MJNair]

and make life's important decisions based on presumptions. Always have a back-up plan or atleast be mentally prepared for the worst.

Life's important decisions are generally based on presumptions. Take marriage for example... another important decision in life... it is again based on the presumption that it will work.. we do not take a girlfriend/boyfriend as a backup thinking that the marriage may not work.

[ldbright]

I just have to ask this. Have any of you asked yourselves what is the point of staying in this country and going through all this...

If only you could be 20 everyday...
It is not easy to start evrything from scratch. We invested our time, our skills and our expectation in this country. Is it that easy to move? Is there any office where I can make an appointment and get out with a package including a permanent job in my domain of expertise, a house with a good deal mortgage arranged, school for the kids with their many years friends, an acceptable job for the spouse and permanent residency cards (or green cards or any equivalent cards) for the whole family? I would leave next week.

====

We are all HSMPians ( before April'06) know the pain and stress when Home Office tried to put extra bar for extension and wanted to give us ILR after 5 years instead of 4 years. But history says, HSMPians went to court and forced them to bow down & keep their promise exactly what was given to us. The basic difference is that HSMPian ( now Tire-1) who came after Nov '06 had to sign as acknowledgement that immigration law in UK can be changed in future.

The basic difference is that HSMPian ( now Tire-1) who came after Nov '06 had to sign as acknowledgement that immigration law in UK can be changed in future.

Does it mean that tier 1 who came after Nov 06 has little chance to win and make sure HO keep their promises this time?

[willnotbackHSMP]

I'm not solicitor, so can't comment about the win. But you see , always there is humanitarian ground exists in all cases like article 9 of Europian Law ( or another name - I forgot )

[MJNair]

BUT, the basic difference is that HSMPian ( now Tire-1) who came after Nov '06 had to sign as acknowledgement that immigration law in UK can be changed in future and it can affect them.

I applied for HSMP in April 2007 (post Nov 2007)
I had to sign a declaration form that had these 2 separate points.

I confirm that I intend to make the UK my main home.
I am aware that the rules and regulations governing HSMP and leave applications may change in the future and I do not assume that the requirements covering any future applications will be the same.

If you read the Judicial review, you can see that the case was won mainly because of the I confirm that I intend to make the UK my main home.
So HSMPians after Nov 2006 also had a legitimate expectation that they would be able to settle.
They did take this clause out in the Tier 1 application. But then, people like us who had to extend our HSMPs did not have a choice but to apply using the Tier 1 application form that the HO provided us. The application would have been refused if we had not signed it[/i]

[ldbright]

I'm not solicitor, so can't comment about the win. But you see , always there is humanitarian ground exists in all cases like article 9 of Europian Law ( or another name - I forgot )

Thank you for replying. I think what we need is a body like hsmp ltd that can united and lead tier1ians. At least by doing this, we can consult a solicitor to have some clarification on this. – How did you guys get things started last time?

[willnotbackHSMP]

I'm not solicitor, so can't comment about the win. But you see , always there is humanitarian ground exists in all cases like article 9 of Europian Law ( or another name - I forgot )

Thank you for replying. I think what we need is a body like hsmp ltd that can united and lead tier1ians. At least by doing this, we can consult a solicitor to have some clarification on this. – How did you guys get things started last time?

You have remind me that history. I can say BOLDLY it is a GREAT history as this organization is the first one in UK history under which one immigration group stood together and brought the HO in to high court and win. At first time there two small groups called meeting ( each group had no connection with other ). One in Trafalgar Square and other was in Toyonby Hall in Aldgate in a same day coincidently! Some ppl came to Toyonby Hall after Trafalgar Square meeting also. There a strong committee was created and many sub commitees like finance, publication etc. At 1st place a strong demonstration held in front of Westminister to bring notice of important ppl like MP and others. Committee was able to bring BBC too to cover this event. Later a yahoo group was created for discussion among HSMPians. After that , a website was created too. In this many way HSMP group started its journey....rest you know well.

[ldbright]

I'm not solicitor, so can't comment about the win. But you see , always there is humanitarian ground exists in all cases like article 9 of Europian Law ( or another name - I forgot )

Thank you for replying. I think what we need is a body like hsmp ltd that can united and lead tier1ians. At least by doing this, we can consult a solicitor to have some clarification on this. – How did you guys get things started last time?

You have remind me that history. I can say BOLDLY it is a GREAT history as this organization is the first one in UK history under which one immigration group stood together and brought the HO in to high court and win. At first time there two small groups called meeting ( each group had no connection with other ). One in Trafalgar Square and other was in Toyonby Hall in Aldgate in a same day coincidently! Some ppl came to Toyonby Hall after Trafalgar Square meeting also. There a strong committee was created and many sub commitees like finance, publication etc. At 1st place a strong demonstration held in front of Westminister to bring notice of important ppl like MP and others. Committee was able to bring BBC too to cover this event. Later a yahoo group was created for discussion among HSMPians. After that , a website was created too. In this many way HSMP group started its journey....rest you know well.

I admire you guys' courage!
However, it seems that at this moment many Tier1 ians are confused or waiting for others to do something. I am not sure what shall i do as an individual. Maybe some of us still hope that HO won't cap extension or change the condition for PR.

[willnotbackHSMP]

BUT, the basic difference is that HSMPian ( now Tire-1) who came after Nov '06 had to sign as acknowledgement that immigration law in UK can be changed in future and it can affect them.

I applied for HSMP in April 2007 (post Nov 2007)
I had to sign a declaration form that had these 2 separate points.

I confirm that I intend to make the UK my main home.
I am aware that the rules and regulations governing HSMP and leave applications may change in the future and I do not assume that the requirements covering any future applications will be the same.

If you read the Judicial review, you can see that the case was won mainly because of the I confirm that I intend to make the UK my main home.
So HSMPians after Nov 2006 also had a legitimate expectation that they would be able to settle.
They did take this clause out in the Tier 1 application. But then, people like us who had to extend our HSMPs did not have a choice but to apply using the Tier 1 application form that the HO provided us. The application would have been refused if we had not signed it[/i]

So far I can recall , the judgment focused on FAQ of guied line which was published along with HSMP application form. At some point of FAQ it was stated that nothing will affect the applicant in case of change of immigration law in UK in future. The FAQ started its answer in this way
' Not at all '

[ldbright]

BUT, the basic difference is that HSMPian ( now Tire-1) who came after Nov '06 had to sign as acknowledgement that immigration law in UK can be changed in future and it can affect them.

I applied for HSMP in April 2007 (post Nov 2007)
I had to sign a declaration form that had these 2 separate points.

I confirm that I intend to make the UK my main home.
I am aware that the rules and regulations governing HSMP and leave applications may change in the future and I do not assume that the requirements covering any future applications will be the same.

If you read the Judicial review, you can see that the case was won mainly because of the I confirm that I intend to make the UK my main home.
So HSMPians after Nov 2006 also had a legitimate expectation that they would be able to settle.
They did take this clause out in the Tier 1 application. But then, people like us who had to extend our HSMPs did not have a choice but to apply using the Tier 1 application form that the HO provided us. The application would have been refused if we had not signed it[/i]

So far I can recall , the judgment focused on FAQ of guied line which was published along with HSMP application form. At some point of FAQ it was stated that nothing will affect the applicant in case of change of immigration law in UK in future. The FAQ started its answer in this way
' Not at all '

This is why i asked my last question. The assurance is no longer there fro tier 1 ians after Nov 06, instead, we accepted that the immigration laws might change. This makes a big difference.

[tipu20]

Hi

ldbright good thoughts, HSMP forum is not only for HSMP but it's also an immigration forum for Highly skilled migrants including Tier 1 and they have already taken the concerns of most of the Tier 1 holders to Home office , Have you seen their recent Press releases ?

All the immigrant community needs to be united and best example is already there

I'm not solicitor, so can't comment about the win. But you see , always there is humanitarian ground exists in all cases like article 9 of Europian Law ( or another name - I forgot )

Thank you for replying. I think what we need is a body like hsmp ltd that can united and lead tier1ians. At least by doing this, we can consult a solicitor to have some clarification on this. – How did you guys get things started last time?