General Medical Council (GMC) registration under EC rights

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:36 pm

Hi guys,

i am a spouse of a british national and currently residing in Dublin since March 2010. I currently hold a spouse Dependant visa here which is provided upon exercising EU treaty rights in the republic of Ireland.

I am a qualified doctor , having completed my degree from a Non-Eu country, would like to register with the GMC UK exercising the EC/EU rights , as per the condition listed per their website below :-

http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/registrat ... rights.asp

There are certain exemptions based on the EC rights. I understand that i a qualify under the 3aii clause on the link above being Non Eu spouse of a british national who is residing in an EU state for the sole purpose of job etc.

Can someone please help me clarify a few things here:-

1) is my understanding based on the above information correct? will i be eligible under the EU rights?

2) GMC require specific clause of the legislation from EC rights under which i qualify? Can someone please provide me with this information?

I have been advised by GMC that i will have to prove to them that i am exercising EU rights in order to gain full exception.

any help from someone who is currently going through this or otherwise can help me would be much appreciated.

thanks

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:44 pm

[

can anyone help? and please help

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:57 pm

I think it is your EEA spouse that must be the one exercising treaty rights. Since your spouse is a British national he/she would have to return to the UK together with you under the Surinder Singh ruling. I can't comment on GMC except that I believe that you should have the same rights as an EEA national provided that the aforementioned conditions are met.

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:00 pm

Thanks for the response

I am exercising EC rights in ireland as a spouse, can i not register with the GMC based the above?

Also clearly dont i qualify under the above mentioned clause? Non Eu Spouse of a british national r residing in an EU country?

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:06 pm

Exercising treaty rights is something EEA nationals can do. Their non-EEA national family members 'only' derive their rights through the relationship with the EEA national. This means that the both of you have to reside together in one member state.

Actually, I am not quite sure what you plan to do. Isn't the purpose of registering with the GMC to practice as a medical doctor in the UK and wouldn't you have to live in the UK to do that (relocate with your spouse in your case)?

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:09 pm

86ti wrote:Exercising treaty rights is something EEA nationals can do. Their non-EEA national family members 'only' derive their rights through the relationship with the EEA national. This means that the both of you have to reside together in one member state.

Actually, I am not quite sure what you plan to do. Isn't the purpose of registering with the GMC to practice as a medical doctor in the UK and wouldn't you have to live in the UK to do that (relocate with your spouse in your case)?

Yes i do plan to relocate to the UK with my Spouse, but would like to register with the GMC beforehand ( if i can) and i think i can based on the information above. However if i am unable to then i am left with no choice but register with them once i am in the UK.

Are you aware of the EU regulation this falls under?

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:34 pm

Your rights as a family member derive from Directive 2004/38/EC as mentioned in the link you gave above. I know that there is another directive (or is it a regulation?) regarding the mutual recognisation of university degrees within the EU but I guess that the registration of medical doctors is something entirely separate. Sorry, can't be of much help here but I dimly remember that similar questions came up here some time ago.

Is your wife working or self-employed in Dublin? That will be a necessary requirement for her to make use of the EEA route.

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:35 pm

86ti wrote:Your rights as a family member derive from Directive 2004/38/EC as mentioned in the link you gave above. I know that there is another directive (or is it a regulation?) regarding the mutual recognisation of university degrees within the EU but I guess that the registration of medical doctors is something entirely separate. Sorry, can't be of much help here but I dimly remember that similar questions came up here some time ago.

Is your wife working or self-employed in Dublin? That will be a necessary requirement for her to make use of the EEA route.

Yes Working hence i think i should qualify under the above clauses for exemption

appreciate your help

Post by **John** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:32 pm

chursy, I agree, you could well have the right that you mention. But I also think that you need to take on board, as that webpage says (with my emphasis) :-

This is an extremely complex area and this guidance gives only general information. If you believe you benefit from an EC right, you are strongly advised to seek professional advice from a lawyer specialising in rights for nationals of European states and those with an enforceable Community right. The GMC cannot give you advice and it is your responsibility to demonstrate to the GMC the existence of such a right.

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:34 pm

John wrote:chursy, I agree, you could well have the right that you mention. But I also think that you need to take on board, as that webpage says (with my emphasis) :-

This is an extremely complex area and this guidance gives only general information. If you believe you benefit from an EC right, you are strongly advised to seek professional advice from a lawyer specialising in rights for nationals of European states and those with an enforceable Community right. The GMC cannot give you advice and it is your responsibility to demonstrate to the GMC the existence of such a right.

yes john will be taking legal advice on this , just wanted to get an idea.

Thanks for your help.

toabetterchange · Post by **toabetterchange** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:31 am

Hello Chursy,

I would like to know what happened in your situation?

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:42 am

toabetterchange wrote:Hello Chursy,

I would like to know what happened in your situation?

Only just relocated back to Uk . I am on the family permit now which is valid for 6 months the idea is to apply once on the resident card status perhaps. Will befalling legal advice.

Aryan2013 · Post by **Aryan2013** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:31 pm

chursy wrote:
toabetterchange wrote:Hello Chursy,

I would like to know what happened in your situation?

Only just relocated back to Uk . I am on the family permit now which is valid for 6 months the idea is to apply once on the resident card status perhaps. Will befalling legal advice.

I think you have to write IELTS, PLAB1 and PLAB2 as well.

As far as I understand your logic, anyone married to British citizen should be exempted from the above exams but I don't think that's the case.

Guy's/Mod's, Plz correct me if I am wrong.

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:26 pm

Aryan2013 wrote:
chursy wrote:
toabetterchange wrote:Hello Chursy,

I would like to know what happened in your situation?

Only just relocated back to Uk . I am on the family permit now which is valid for 6 months the idea is to apply once on the resident card status perhaps. Will befalling legal advice.
I think you have to write IELTS, PLAB1 and PLAB2 as well.

As far as I understand your logic, anyone married to British citizen should be exempted from the above exams but I don't think that's the case.

Guy's/Mod's, Plz correct me if I am wrong.

No you seem to missing the point. This is only for individuals exercising EU Treaty rights not british nationals. In my case i have a family permit, which endorses that i am exercising EU Treaty rights.

Aryan2013 · Post by **Aryan2013** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:42 pm

chursy wrote:
Aryan2013 wrote:
chursy wrote:
toabetterchange wrote:Hello Chursy,

I would like to know what happened in your situation?

Only just relocated back to Uk . I am on the family permit now which is valid for 6 months the idea is to apply once on the resident card status perhaps. Will befalling legal advice.
I think you have to write IELTS, PLAB1 and PLAB2 as well.

As far as I understand your logic, anyone married to British citizen should be exempted from the above exams but I don't think that's the case.

Guy's/Mod's, Plz correct me if I am wrong.

No you seem to missing the point. This is only for individuals exercising EU Treaty rights not british nationals. In my case i have a family permit, which endorses that i am exercising EU Treaty rights.

Ok, so an EU person has more rights than a british person in Britain. In some cases its true for e.g in case of students but I am not sure in your case.

Anyway, how far you been with GMC and what they saying??

Post by **John** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:07 pm

Ok, so an EU person has more rights than a british person in Britain.

Only to the extent of ...... an EU person has more rights than a French person in France .... an EU person has more rights than a Spanish person in Spain ... etc etc etc.

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:50 am

John wrote:
Ok, so an EU person has more rights than a british person in Britain.
Only to the extent of ...... an EU person has more rights than a French person in France .... an EU person has more rights than a Spanish person in Spain ... etc etc etc.

Just to let you know, I have now managed to obtain an application form from gmc and will be attaching the supporting documentation requested to support my case. I confirmed this with gmc that in order to obtain the exemption you donot need to hold an EU degree!!!! exemption is very much in place !! Will let u know how I progress with this once I send the forms etc

Aryan2013 · Post by **Aryan2013** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:29 pm

John wrote:
Ok, so an EU person has more rights than a british person in Britain.
Only to the extent of ...... an EU person has more rights than a French person in France .... an EU person has more rights than a Spanish person in Spain ... etc etc etc.

I know that bit and my question is where it stands on the fairness scale??

I am not happy to live in an EU federal state or for my kids to live into one!

Aryan2013 · Post by **Aryan2013** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:40 pm

chursy wrote:
John wrote:
Ok, so an EU person has more rights than a british person in Britain.
Only to the extent of ...... an EU person has more rights than a French person in France .... an EU person has more rights than a Spanish person in Spain ... etc etc etc.

Just to let you know, I have now managed to obtain an application form from gmc and will be attaching the supporting documentation requested to support my case. I confirmed this with gmc that in order to obtain the exemption you donot need to hold an EU degree!!!! exemption is very much in place !! Will let u know how I progress with this once I send the forms etc

Best of luck and I hope you get your exemptions. However, it does raises a question in case of a doctor who can't speak a word of english??

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:10 pm

[

Best of luck and I hope you get your exemptions. However, it does raises a question in case of a doctor who can't speak a word of english??[/quote]

Aryan
No it doesnt and it shouldnt raise any concern of someone's ability to speak english! as the education is completed all in english and i can vouch that 99% of doctors know english. if they didnt half of the NHS doctors wouldnt be foreign nationals!!! says alot about the competency of english doctors who are local i suppose!

Olgathan · Post by **Olgathan** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:12 am

Chursy! We followed your post and PM you! We are sort of desperate due to lack of information and in a VERY similar situation as you are! Please get back to us as soon as possible!

Will ENORMOUSLY Appreciate it!

Aryan2013 · Post by **Aryan2013** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:58 pm

chursy wrote: No it doesnt and it shouldnt raise any concern of someone's ability to speak english! as the education is completed all in english and i can vouch that 99% of doctors know english. if they didnt half of the NHS doctors wouldnt be foreign nationals!!! says alot about the competency of english doctors who are local i suppose!

I assume you are coming from one of the commonwealth countries and I think you missed my point, "English" concern was for EU doctors, if you can see my point now!!

Szmek · Post by **Szmek** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:57 pm

Hello, I would like to add to this topic, as my wife's situation is similar, but different, and I see there are a few GMC/EC right specialists that might be able to help:

Me and my wife just applied for the Foundation Programme 2012. I am a Polish/British national studying in Poland and my wife is national of Belarus, also studying in Poland. She has an EEA permit.
We received our decisions today regarding our eligibility. I was accepted and she was refused. Her application was made under the GMC rules that she is exempt from the PLAB because she benefits from EC rights as my wife.
c. the spouse/civil partner/partner of an EEA national in the UK as a student for more than three months or of a UK national having studied for more than three months in another relevant European state, or the dependent child of such an EEA or UK national or their spouse or civil partner ( from GMC rights factsheet)

The refusal email stated " We note that you are wanting to exercise an EC right. However, this can only be achieved if your husband relocates back to the UK. As there is no evidence of this EC rights have not been exercised".

Can someone verify that she indeed does not benefit from EC rights until my return to the UK? (N.B. I supplied a letter of declaration that I am currently seeking employment as a doctor-in-training in the UK via my application to the Foundation Programme- however I would not technically be relocating back to the UK until the end of my degree/beginning of Foundation Programme July/August 2012)

We need to know so that we can file a letter of appeal.

Thank you all, I hope that we can find a solution.

Post by **John** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:33 pm

Can someone verify that she indeed does not benefit from EC rights until my return to the UK?

Unfortunately for you .... verified. The fact that you have a right to exercise Treaty Rights does not actually mean that you are using them.

chursy · Post by **chursy** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:05 am

I would suggest that you appeal once you are back in the UK, with a local address and perhaps looking or ideally practicing.

I think the assumption is that you are based in the UK and hence will be practicing in Uk so need to register with GMC. Otherwise anyone sitting other EU countries can apply and register with the council i suppose.

I wouldn't recommend you appeal, as you dont have any grounding to support your case on, move to UK and then perhaps a high probability

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