Fake stamp in passport, refused under 320(11)

[marksim8080]

lllllllllllllll

[MPH80]

I think claiming you didn't know the stamp was a fake when ...

i did not travel but a friend stamped it for me like a departure stamp

To claim that not travelling and having a friend stamp it wasn't a fraud is a bit far fetched I think.

Now - your questions:

My question is when i reapply again next year will i be accused of the previous deception of fake stamps in previous passport??

Quite probably. But providing everything is in order - the exemption under 7B would cover you unless 320(11) kicks in.

And what about paragraph 320(11) will they use it against me. I never over stayed in the uk i went for only 4 months visit.

Possibly. Can't say for sure on that. Only an application will find that out.

I have gone to court and proved guilty with explanation and the judge gave me a caution and my case was discharged.

I don't think that'll make a difference - UKBA will have a (quite correct) record that you applied with fake information in your passport.

do i still have any chances when i reapply as a fiancee for settlement again next year.

I'd say there's a chance - but the rest of your application is going to have to be whiter-than-white not to trip 320(11).

M.

[Plum70]

I have a south African visa in my passport in 2007 i did not travel but a friend stamped it for me like a departure stamp which i thought was original.

How did you rationalise that an immigration stamp placed in your passport by a 3rd party indicating that you visited SA when you didn't would be valid? No need to answer - probably denial or naivete...

i used the same passport to travel to the uk and visited my fiancee without any problems in 2009.

This doesn't validate the fake stamp, may just be that the ECO missed it.

My question is when i reapply again next year will i be accused of the previous deception of fake stamps in previous passport?? And what about paragraph 320(11) will they use it against me. I never over stayed in the uk i went for only 4 months visit.

It will definitely remain on your record. However that it has been concluded in court with a caution and you have been issued a new (and original) passport without any fake immigration stamps, when you do reapply you need to address the ECO's concerns.

However I do not feel that refusal on grounds of para 320 (3) should apply because your identity document with which you applied was an original. It was wasn't it?:roll:

[Plum70]

Didn't realise that MPH80 had posted...

[marksim8080]

I think claiming you didn't know the stamp was a fake when ...

i did not travel but a friend stamped it for me like a departure stamp

To claim that not travelling and having a friend stamp it wasn't a fraud is a bit far fetched I think.

Now - your questions:

My question is when i reapply again next year will i be accused of the previous deception of fake stamps in previous passport??

Quite probably. But providing everything is in order - the exemption under 7B would cover you unless 320(11) kicks in.

And what about paragraph 320(11) will they use it against me. I never over stayed in the uk i went for only 4 months visit.

Possibly. Can't say for sure on that. Only an application will find that out.

I have gone to court and proved guilty with explanation and the judge gave me a caution and my case was discharged.

I don't think that'll make a difference - UKBA will have a (quite correct) record that you applied with fake information in your passport.

do i still have any chances when i reapply as a fiancee for settlement again next year.

I'd say there's a chance - but the rest of your application is going to have to be whiter-than-white not to trip 320(11).

M.

Do you think they can use 320(11) there are no aggravating circumstances in my case?? what do you think??

[marksim8080]

Didn't realise that MPH80 had posted...

Do you think they can use 320(11) there are no aggravating circumstances in my case?? what do you think??

[vinny]

No, because

I did not over stay my visa i spent only 4 months in the uk.

[MPH80]

Vinny - can it be that clear cut?

In the ECO's eyes - he's used deception in not one, but two previous applications - with that false SA stamp. Albeit he got away with one.

From the guidance:

If an applicant has previously breached the immigration laws but is applying in a category which is exempt from paragraph 320(7B) under paragraph 320(7C), you must consider whether it is appropriate to refuse the application under paragraph 320(11).

and then from the rules:

(11) where the applicant has previously contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules. Guidance will be published giving examples of circumstances in which an applicant who has previously overstayed, breached a condition attached to his leave, been an Illegal Entrant or used Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not) is likely to be considered as having contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules.

(my bolding)

Wouldn't two applications with deception be considered to be contriving in a significant way?

(I genuinely don't know the answer here - hence why I wrote "possibly" in my response - but it strikes me as a definate possibility).

M.

[marksim8080]

Vinny - can it be that clear cut?

In the ECO's eyes - he's used deception in not one, but two previous applications - with that false SA stamp. Albeit he got away with one.

From the guidance:

If an applicant has previously breached the immigration laws but is applying in a category which is exempt from paragraph 320(7B) under paragraph 320(7C), you must consider whether it is appropriate to refuse the application under paragraph 320(11).

and then from the rules:

(11) where the applicant has previously contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules. Guidance will be published giving examples of circumstances in which an applicant who has previously overstayed, breached a condition attached to his leave, been an Illegal Entrant or used Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not) is likely to be considered as having contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules.

(my bolding)

Wouldn't two applications with deception be considered to be contriving in a significant way?

(I genuinely don't know the answer here - hence why I wrote "possibly" in my response - but it strikes me as a definate possibility).

M.

but the rules also state this

When can I refuse under 320 (11)?
This is a discretionary refusal where an applicant has:
been an immigration offender or in breach of UK immigration or other law; and / or
received services or support to which they were not entitled;
and where there are aggravating circumstances.
It is not sufficient to have been in breach of immigration law or to be an immigration offender. There must be aggravating circumstances as well.

what is your opinion??

should i go seek a solicitor for advice since i will reapply for settlement again and i have right to family life too i have a 6 months old son

[marksim8080]

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[vinny]

Vinny - can it be that clear cut?

In the ECO's eyes - he's used deception in not one, but two previous applications - with that false SA stamp. Albeit he got away with one.

Yes. You are right. Refusal under 320(11) is possible.

[marksim8080]

lllll

[MPH80]

My opinion - there are aggravating circumstances - you did it twice! Not only that - you've now got a criminal conviction.

my fiancee getting all benefits from the government

You are able to show that, since you can't work until married and have converted to FLR(M) (which will be at least 3-4 months), your fiancee can sustain all three of you without resorting to more benefits right?

You'll (as a pair) need an additional £110 a week to cover your presence.

Otherwise - even if you get past 320(11) - you'll just get rejected on that.

I think, given the complexities here - you should probably get an adviser to help put this application together.

And you've taken the new English test as well right?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... e-partners

M.

[Zebrudaya]

Dear marksim8080

Having gone through what you have said and what other experienced people have advised, I suggest you get a solicitor to advise you professionally. Much also depends upon the discretion of the officer when you apply. If he is in a good mood and he believes your indiscretion was a one-off, you may not have any undue difficulty in getting to see your wife and the new born son whom you are yet to see live for the first time.
Goodluck.