Residency Time for Naturalisation

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:19 pm

I am trying to determine when the three (3) year period starts for the application for naturalisation/citizenship through marriage.

I arrived to the UK under a visitor's visa in November 2007.

I left the country to apply and receive my Spousal 2 year Visa in June 2008.

I applied and received my Indefinite Leave to Remain ILR residency status in June 2010.

Question is:
Does the required time period of three (3) years start when I arrived in the UK November 2007, June 2008 or June 2010?

Thank you

Post by **MPH80** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:51 pm

I've recently been through this with my wife.

It isn't quite as simple as you're making out as to when it 'starts'.

The rule is relatively simple:

1) Ensure you were legally in the UK exactly 3 years before your date of application. ANY time in the UK is fine - providing you were here legally (and can prove it!). I know the website keeps using the word resident but that's not what the law says.

2) Ensure you haven't breached the number of days out of the country since that time.

So - to (sort of) answer your question - you can start counting from the November 2007 - however, the days out of the country are from 3 years before the date of application to the date of application.

So - if (for example) you apply tomorrow and you spent 300 days out of the country between Jan 21st 2008 and Jan 21st 2011 - you might not be eligible. You need to work that out for yourself based on your travel dates.

M.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:38 pm

Thanks!

I think my travel days were mostly related to work, but I'll count it up and see for sure.

Based on this and also according to your experience, since I arrive legally in the UK on a visitor's visa November 2007, that means I can already apply for the UK naturalisation. I thought at first it would be 3 years after receiving the ILR, then I thought it was 3 years after getting the Spousal Visa.

Any thoughts on this?

I've tried emailing the Home Office to get a firm answer, but have gotten no responses from them. I would apply just to see, but the fees aren't very cheap

Thanks again!

Post by **MPH80** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:57 pm

Well - I can confirm that my wife applied on the basis of being in the UK on a tourist visa 3 years before the date of application.

She had only been in the UK for ~2 years when she applied for her citizenship and had only had her ILR for approx 2 weeks at that point.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:33 am

So your wife was in the UK as a tourist, then got the spousal visa & the ILR?

I think this is a very similar situation. I was on the tourist visa for 6 months, returned home for less than a month to sort out the spousal visa,...total of over 3 years now anyway.

I still will feel more confident if I have something in writing or at least can talk to someone from the Home Office. This is a bit of a challenge! They seem to have a phone number that just goes to automated service, but no live person. No responses as yet from email!

Post by **MPH80** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:00 am

Well - let's be a bit more explicit and to be clear for future readers ... here was my wife's timeline:

March 2007-April 2007 - in UK as tourist
October 2007 - December 2007 - in UK as tourist
Jan 2008 - April 2008 - in UK as fiancee
April 2008 - convert to Spouse
March 2010 (28 days before expiry) - convert to ILR
April 1st 2010 - Apply for citizenship on basis of presence in April 2007
May 2010 - citizenship granted
Mid June 2010 - Ceremony attended

For something in writing - check out the guidance:

http://ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteconte ... chapter18/

Look at the residence requirements PDF - especially at 2.3.

The important thing to realise is that you *must not* breach the days away requirement. There is *discretion* to allow more days away for work - but it is only discretion - it isn't a requirement that they do. Read section 4 in the same PDF carefully to see when they can apply the discretion.

M.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:33 am

Thanks for all that.

I think this is very similar to mine:
November 2007: Arrival in UK with a Tourist Visa
November 2007 to May 2008: Tourist Visa Status
May 2008: return to home country and applied for spousal visa
June 2008: Spousal visa granted
June 2008 - June 2010: ILR received before expiration

I've tried to get a hold of the local Citizen's Bureau to get a clear answer, but nothing yet. I might have problems as I was away for work, though I believe it's still within the limits. Considering I was under a UK employer and can have letters written in support of this, paying taxes, etc, maybe that'll be ok.

Post by **MPH80** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:00 am

It is unlikely the CAB will know that you don't have to be 'resident' for 3 years. Even the lady at the NCS didn't know ... we had to push her to send my wife's application.

Look up the british nationality act 1981 - the legal requirements are all laid out there. You can back that up with the guidance on the UKBA website I previously linked to. Do not read the 2009 act - the nationality portions of it haven't been brought into force (which does require that the time you've spent in the UK was as the spouse of a british citizen).

I know how nervous you are - I was the same - it was John here who pointed this out to me.

The one thing we did do was to add explanatory notes to the application stating when my wife arrived as a tourist etc because one of the questions is when you arrived in the UK with the intention of settling - which we correctly answered as Jan 2008 - not March 2007 - so we added a note explaining she was here in 2007 as a tourist, but only arrived to settle in 2008.

M.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:31 pm

I had a more thorough read through the PDF.

Your wife's dates are very similar to mine, only in March rather than November. Just to clarify, did she claim on the application her 3 year residency from March 2007 until April 2010?

This intention to settle is a bit obscure, but basically what I am gathering is that the three year period covers all immigration status from the start as a tourist, fiancee, spousal to ILR...other than illegal entry, overstaying the time limits, etc.

Post by **MPH80** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:53 pm

If you go through the application form there is a section where you have to list your absences from the UK.

At the top of that page there is a question which asks when you first arrived in the UK. The guidance says you should put the date you first arrived for settlement - in your case June 2008.

Your absences should cover the period you are applying for - so if it was tomorrow that would be Jan 2008 to Jan 2011.

You then need to an a note in the section where you can (later on) that explains you were here as a tourist in Jan 2008 - but only arrived with an intention to settle in June 2008.

Easy.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:53 pm

I asked a lawyer about when the three year starts. It does indeed start from the beginning of when I arrived legally first in the UK, no matter if it was visitor, fiancee visa, etc.

Would my date for first arrived for settlement be not 11/2007, then intention to settle (spousal visa) in June 2008?

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:32 am

Actually, I had also asked two other lawyers and they're all in conflict with their answers....ugh

Post by **MPH80** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:42 am

I can only tell you what we put on the form.

Date of first arrival (which guidance said was with intention to settle): date of arrival on fiancee visa.

Note added in 'additional notes' section to clarify that my wife was present in the UK on application date as a tourist.

Dates of absence put covering entire 3 year period.

M.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:12 pm

I never went through the fiancee visa. Instead, I got married in the UK under a visitor's visa, then went out of the country to get the spousal visa to get back into the country.

Post by **MPH80** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:18 pm

That's fine - substitute 'fiancee' with 'spouse' in my last post.

essexboy · Post by **essexboy** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:06 pm

My wife and I are in a similar position and submitted her application for Naturalisation 10 days ago. I am a British Citizen from birth.

My only concern is that reading this thread, we may have put the wrong date in section 2.1. Here is our timeline:

2003 - Met overseas where I was working for several years.
Sept. 2007 - I return to London to start new job.
Nov. 2007 - Wife enters UK on 6mth General Visitor Visa.
28 April 2008 - Wife returns to her home country to obtain Fiancee Visa.
June 2008 - Wife enters UK on 6mth Fiancee Visa.
Nov 2008 - We are married in UK.
Jan 2009 - Wife is issued her 2 year Spouse Visa.
4th Jan 2011 - Wife is issued ILR at Croydon PEO.
Fri 14th Jan - Appointment for NCS at Sutton Registery Office.
Mon 18th Jan - GBP 780 taken from my credit card
Fri 22nd Jan - Receipt of Acknowkedgement Letter (dated Mon 18th Jan).

However we did not quite fill in the form as suggested by MPH80 and I hope this will not come back to haunt us.

In Section 2.1, we put the date in November 2007 that my wife came into the UK on a General Visitor Visa and not the date in June 2008 when she returned having obtained her Fiancee Visa from the UK Embassy in Caracas.

In Section 2.2, we put all absences from Nov. 2007 to date and meet the 90/270 day rule. Essentially, my wife was in the UK three years prior to applying (as per guidelines) and was free from immigration control (ILR) when we applied.

Should we have put June 2008 in section 2.1 and elaborated on page 13 as suggested by MPH80 or do you think we will be OK as submitted?

My view is that this is a minor technicality and doesn't change the fact that my wife meets all requirements but I am now somewhat nervous that we may be 700 Quid poorer with nothing to show for it!!

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Post by **MPH80** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:09 am

My bet is you'll be fine. We have long debates over it - and it was the lady at NCS who suggested we do it the way we did.

essexboy · Post by **essexboy** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:53 am

Thanks MPH80. I think (hope) we should be OK as well and will keep all updated as to our progress.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:20 pm

Finally got through to the home office and confirmed it's all okay. As long as you're here legally to start with, the type of stamp on the passport doesn't matter.

Last question...after you submitted your passport with the application, how long is it before you see your passport again? Do they send this back to you first before going through the rest of the paperwork? I don't have a second passport so am I basically stuck in the UK until ..when?

Post by **MPH80** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:37 pm

No - you get it back when they complete the application, unless you apply via NCS, when you get to keep it in your possession.

twotoedgiraffe · Post by **twotoedgiraffe** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:28 am

Everything turned out okay. Residency was established from the minute I landed in the UK, regardless of the type of visa if it's visitors, etc etc.

Approval for the citizenship was very fast (2 weeks total really). Ceremony is this Thursday, then on to the passport.

Thanks for your help.

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Residency Time for Naturalisation

Residency Time for Naturalisation

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