Child born after 2005 - is she entitled to citizenship?

[muir]

Hello there - I am hoping someone can help me. A very close friend of mine (Sarah) needs to apply for her child (Julie) to become an Irish citizen. Here is the scenario:

Sarah came to Ireland in 2006 while pregnant with Julie. Julie was born early 2007. They have been here since - seeking asylum. I am not sure if this affects the process of naturalisation or not.
My queston is --> Is Sarah entitled to apply for Julie's citizenship because Julie was born in Ireland? I realise Julie does not automatically qualify for citizenship after 2005 but she is now 3 years old and has lived her entire life in Ireland. Surely this gives her some sort of right to apply for citizenship even though her mother is not from Europe and is seeking asylum herself here in Ireland.

Any help you can give us would be greatly greatly appreciated because we are finding it very difficult to trawl through all the various references and legal jargon - there doesn't seem to be any definitive place where we can go to get a clear answer.
Thanks in advance!
Muir

[walrusgumble]

Hello there - I am hoping someone can help me. A very close friend of mine (Sarah) needs to apply for her child (Julie) to become an Irish citizen. Here is the scenario:

Sarah came to Ireland in 2006 while pregnant with Julie. Julie was born early 2007. They have been here since - seeking asylum. I am not sure if this affects the process of naturalisation or not.
My queston is --> Is Sarah entitled to apply for Julie's citizenship because Julie was born in Ireland? I realise Julie does not automatically qualify for citizenship after 2005 but she is now 3 years old and has lived her entire life in Ireland. Surely this gives her some sort of right to apply for citizenship even though her mother is not from Europe and is seeking asylum herself here in Ireland.

Any help you can give us would be greatly greatly appreciated because we are finding it very difficult to trawl through all the various references and legal jargon - there doesn't seem to be any definitive place where we can go to get a clear answer.
Thanks in advance!
Muir

the answer is the child is not entitled to Irish Citizenship simply because the child was born here.

As the child was born after 1/1/2005 the parent or parents needed to have 3 years legal reckonable residency before the birth. Time as an Asylum seeker are not included. The only way that the child could get citizenship is through the normal naturalisation methods - ie both mother and child need to be legal. The child is not, from your story even legal and unless they get refugee status or leave to remain, could face deportation.


I refer you to consolidated version of the Irish Naturalisation and Citizenship Act 1956-2004 Section 6A. You can even get it on wikipedia.

[muir]

Thank you walrusgumble for your reply. However, I was already aware of this situation. I was hoping for someone to tell me whether the process of naturalisation for a child born in Ireland is different to an adult seeking asylum.
It is becoming more apparent to me that this is not the case.
Also, I have to question your semantics - my friend is not "illegal" she is an asylum seeker and due to the fact that everyone has a recognised human right to seek asylum and that she notified officials upon her arrival, she has a right to be in Ireland while their case is being decided.

[fatty patty]

Hi Muir, time spent as an asylum seeker in waiting and student is not recognized by Irish authorities as reckonable residence. But if for e.g. Julie/Sarah gets the asylum app approved and gets there stamp, after few years down the line they can apply for naturalisation. Post 2005 to qualify for automatic Irish citizenship atleast one of the parents of the child has to be Irish or British or someone on a work permit or stamp 4 for atleast three years prior to the child's birth.

[muir]

Thanks Fatty Patty - so basically the State sees the child born to an asylum seeker as an asylum seekers also...even though she was born in the country and so her time in the state does not count when applying for naturalisation?

So basically, if they are seeking asylum here for another 5 years none of that time counts?? That's incredible...

[IRISH PHAROE]

Also I think for the minors whether they are asylum or not, they can't apply for naturlization unless one of the parent is naturalized.

[muir]

Thanks guys for all your help. I am new to this immigration situation. I just happened to become a close friend of Sarah and I adore her daughter Julie - in fact I am her God mother. Sarah has raised enough money through voluntary work and being sponsored by the organisations she volunteers for to put herself through 2 years of college (€1000 fees each year). She is an amazing woman and given the opportunity, she would be a valuable asset to this country, but every time the poor woman tries to improve her situation the doors seem to close one by one.
The thing is, I feel so helpless in the situation as there doesn't seem to be any avenue that we can explore to speed up the process of receiving permission to stay and acquiring a normal life for herself and her child.
Do we really have no option but to wait for her appeal to be declined and have to allow her to be sent back to her war torn country to endure a life of misery there??

[fatty patty]

Sorry I stand corrected as Irish Pharoe said the parents of the child has to be naturalised first before the child to be naturalised. After 2004 referundum on Irish citizenship any child born in the Island of Ireland is not necessarily an Irish citizen as was the case before 2005. If the child was to be for e.g. an Irish the parents would have got favourable outcome via Zambrano ruling which passed in the courts few days ago as per my understanding. There is no other way for your friend but to wait for the decision, hope things work out for your friend.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... scent.html

http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs ... 0016en.pdf

[JAJ]

SOME countries do not allow mothers to pass on citizenship to children born outside their territories. Same goes for unmarried fathers, although we don't even know if there is any father shown on her birth certificate.

Perhaps if we knew the country involved, it would be clearer.

If Julie is stateless, then it means two things, 1. it's not possible for her to be deported because no other country will take her, and 2. there are some options to get her Irish citizenship on this basis.

[walrusgumble]

Thank you walrusgumble for your reply. However, I was already aware of this situation. I was hoping for someone to tell me whether the process of naturalisation for a child born in Ireland is different to an adult seeking asylum.
It is becoming more apparent to me that this is not the case.
Also, I have to question your semantics - my friend is not "illegal" she is an asylum seeker and due to the fact that everyone has a recognised human right to seek asylum and that she notified officials upon her arrival, she has a right to be in Ireland while their case is being decided.

Is she still an "asylum seeker"? ie has she /he got a decison in relation to the refugee case or is she on leave to remain? If its the latter, then I am correct.

Whilst it is accepted that an asylum seeker has a limited permission to remain, even the High Court acknowledge that most come in illegally ie without passports/on false passports. Thus, this is what I refer too. Once refused then she / he is illegal. You said your friend has been here since 2006, I think it would be fair to assume that she has been refused refugee status at this point, unless she/he was in the High Court. THerefore, she / he is now illegal and this period is being tolerated whilst a leave to remain application is being considered. There is nothing sinster about the term used, and if the facts suggested by me are accurate, then I am correct.

The high reality is that unless she / he is from Iran/Iraq/Afganistan/somalia/and a couple of other Middle Eastern places, they will eventually get deportation orders, unless they meet EU people.

The position for a child is that they can only apply for citizenship once they turn 18. The only way they can naturalise earlier is if their parent naturalises, a quick application can then be made.

[walrusgumble]

Thanks Fatty Patty - so basically the State sees the child born to an asylum seeker as an asylum seekers also...even though she was born in the country and so her time in the state does not count when applying for naturalisation?

So basically, if they are seeking asylum here for another 5 years none of that time counts?? That's incredible...

Why is it incredible? The family are seeking asylum. THey have to show that they are entitled to a declaration of refugee status first. Because of regular appeals and High Court cases, it takes longer. (ie RAT and not leave to remain part). Why should there be credit? Many asylum seekers get lucky in that they are in the process for 4-7 years via 2-3 successful High Court cases with 3-4 RAT decisions and yet fail to get asylum.(they though though get leave to remain, often simply because of the time here)