EEA2 & Moving out of UK

[Mac_UK]

Hello all!

I am in need of advice concerning topic.

Short history: I am Danish but work here as pilot for almost 8 years, wife is Croatian and she is holder of EEA2 residence card for 2 years now.


We are planing to move to Denmark in couple of months and even if I will still be working here, my address will be in Denmark - so here is what we are wondering:

1. Does her EEA2 Residence card becomes invalid soon as I move out of country (even though I'll be still flying here and staying at pilot house for periods of time)?

2. Can she work in Denmark while we are Applying under EU Law or that becomes illegal if the answer to question 1 is yes?

I tried to google and "search" forums but with no luck...Hopefully some of you folks can help us out, ANY help greatly appreciated!

Mac

[86ti]

We are planing to move to Denmark in couple of months and even if I will still be working here, my address will be in Denmark - so here is what we are wondering:

1. Does her EEA2 Residence card becomes invalid soon as I move out of country (even though I'll be still flying here and staying at pilot house for periods of time)?

Yes. Otherwise you would have to keep your place of residence in the UK.

2. Can she work in Denmark while we are Applying under EU Law or that becomes illegal if the answer to question 1 is yes?

It is not a question of documentation (a British residence card has no meaning in this context anyway). In principle, she should be able to work but others will need to comment if and how that is possible in Denmark.

[ca.funke]

Hi Mac_UK,

1. Does her EEA2 Residence card becomes invalid soon as I move out of country (even though I'll be still flying here and staying at pilot house for periods of time)?

Her UK-residence-card will become invalid, but you have the right to be treated according to EU-rules in Denmark since you worked in the UK for a while.

Please note that this depends on you living at the same address in Denmark (which includes paying taxes there etc...).

2. Can she work in Denmark while we are Applying under EU Law or that becomes illegal if the answer to question 1 is yes?

She has to be granted a residence-permit, furthermore she is allowed to start working immediately after arriving.

In practice there may be many problems arising from this - hence I would suggest the following: Ring the townhall of the place where you want to move and ask them how this should go ahead in their view. If all goes according to your ideas that´s just fine.

If they give a reply which bothers you (not allowed to work immediately, or whatever else) post your further questions here.

Please do post the outcome, even if everything goes just fine!

Regards, Christian

[86ti]

For general guidance (and the theory) have a look here.

[Mac_UK]

Thanks for answers both of you! That clears at least some of it

Just a quick question, do we need to report to UKBA about us leaving UK as residency to make her EEA2 invalid or that just takes place the moment we change address to danish ?

Just wondering if we should fill in one of those "change of circumstances" form or something similar.

Soon as everything is finished (hopefully within next 2-4 months!), I'll post update of course!

Mac

[ca.funke]

...do we need to report to UKBA about us leaving UK...

No clue about the UK, but I was in the same situation before leaving Ireland. We just left and nothing ever happened.

[86ti]

In principle, any circumstances that may lead to a change of the immigration status should be reported but it is hard to see what difference it would make in your case (holding EEA related documentation is optional). As long as your wife doesn't use here residence card anymore after relocation there should be no problem.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

This is a super question which is pretty subtle!

1. Does her EEA2 Residence card becomes invalid soon as I move out of country (even though I'll be still flying here and staying at pilot house for periods of time)?

I disagree with the other posters. The answer is no, the Residence Card does not automatically become invalid immediately. Your non-Eu family members will not normally loose right of residence until you/they have been away for more than 6 months.

If you may or may not come back to the UK depending on what happens in the future, then I would think the 6 month rule clearly applies.

If you decide "We will never again live in the UK", and you tell UKBA that, then they may think the Residence Card is indeed invalid. But you are not required to tell UKBA anything, and certainly not if there is some possibility that you might come back.

It does NOT depend on you keeping a residence in the UK. You can sell you house, ship all your things to France, and then move back to the UK in 5 months time and continue on with the same Residence Card.

Article 11 - Validity of the residence card
2. The validity of the residence card shall not be affected by temporary absences not exceeding six
months a year, or by absences of a longer duration for compulsory military service or by one
absence of a maximum of twelve consecutive months for important reasons such as pregnancy and
childbirth, serious illness, study or vocational training, or a posting in another Member State or a
third country.

2. Can she work in Denmark while we are Applying under EU Law or that becomes illegal if the answer to question 1 is yes?

This is a funny situation. If you were working in Denmark, then she could definitely enter Denmark on the basis of EU law and should be able to work immediately from entry in the country (see http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/). But you will be a cross-border commuter working still in the UK (Is it correct that you will not be officially employed in Denmark?). I am not sure what official status you will have in Denmark, and therefore what your wife's rights will be.

There is a whole bunch of EU documentation and ECJ case law about cross-border workers. It is worth looking at in detail.

The Danish are known for being a bit prickly about EU law and trying to minimize it's application. So do this all well informed of your rights.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

...do we need to report to UKBA about us leaving UK...

No clue about the UK, but I was in the same situation before leaving Ireland. We just left and nothing ever happened.

There is no requirement in Directive 2004/38/EC or any case law that I am aware of to report your departure. Member states could only require it if they also require their own nationals to report their departure, and the UK does not require British citizens to do this.

[86ti]

It does NOT depend on you keeping a residence in the UK. You can sell you house, ship all your things to France, and then move back to the UK in 5 months time and continue on with the same Residence Card.

The Directive speaks of temporary absences which may be open to interpretation but in your scenario above the UKBA will conclude that the residence was broken.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=70938

[Mac_UK]

Hm...Thanks again for reply, they are very valuable to us

To answer Directive, I would still be working here and even my company is originally danish, I am on UK contract since we have base here.

My address will be in Denmark though, so from what I've been reading that alone should make her residence card invalid - moment I change address from Uk to danish one anyways.

It looks like it will take up to 3 months to get her residence sorted in Denmark, once we do apply.
So unless waiting period will extend to much longer time, we will just have to wait a little with her working.

[ca.funke]

It looks like it will take up to 3 months to get her residence sorted in Denmark, once we do apply.
So unless waiting period will extend to much longer time, we will just have to wait a little with her working.

I think your wife doesn´t have to wait, not one day:

Article 23
Related rights
Irrespective of nationality, the family members of a Union
citizen who have the right of residence or the right of perma-
nent residence in a Member State shall be entitled to take up
employment or self-employment there.

Article 25
General provisions concerning residence documents
1. Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in
Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a
certificate attesting submission of an application for a family
member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent
residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precon-
dition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an
administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be
attested by any other means of proof.

If the Danish authorities tell her that she´s not allowed to work, I´d ask for written confirmation of the fact that they do not allow her to work, emphasising that you will sue them for lost income on the basis of the above.


As far as the following is concerned I agree with Directive. I guess I was wrong in what I wrote before.

1. Does her EEA2 Residence card becomes invalid soon as I move out of country (even though I'll be still flying here and staying at pilot house for periods of time)?

I disagree with the other posters. The answer is no, the Residence Card does not automatically become invalid immediately. Your non-Eu family members will not normally loose right of residence until you/they have been away for more than 6 months.

However the UK-residency-card won´t allow your wife to work in Denmark. Somehow back to square 1, but no, it doesn´t become invalid. This would be specifically important if your wife was visa-required, since the UK-residency-card allows visa-free travel throughout the EU, but since your wife is Croatian that´s of no concern to you.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The Directive speaks of temporary absences which may be open to interpretation but in your scenario above the UKBA will conclude that the residence was broken.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=70938

Sorry, but I do not think it is as clear cut as you think. And I am not sure UKBA is so clear about it either, especially if you look at the words they use in that letter.

[86ti]

The Directive speaks of temporary absences which may be open to interpretation but in your scenario above the UKBA will conclude that the residence was broken.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=70938

Sorry, but I do not think it is as clear cut as you think. And I am not sure UKBA is so clear about it either, especially if you look at the words they use in that letter.

I do not think that it is clear cut but rather attempt to give practical advice here. You cannot seriously advice a third-country national to travel alone to the UK when the EEA national does not live and does not generate income here anymore. The UKBA's stance seems clear and it may need the help of the courts to convince them otherwise.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The Directive speaks of temporary absences which may be open to interpretation but in your scenario above the UKBA will conclude that the residence was broken.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=70938

Sorry, but I do not think it is as clear cut as you think. And I am not sure UKBA is so clear about it either, especially if you look at the words they use in that letter.

I do not think that it is clear cut but rather attempt to give practical advice here. You cannot seriously advice a third-country national to travel alone to the UK when the EEA national does not live and does not generate income here anymore. The UKBA's stance seems clear and it may need the help of the courts to convince them otherwise.

Sorry I am not providing specific advice, and nobody has asked me for it.

But note that the EEA national will continue to be working in the UK (generating income and exercising their treaty rights).

The original poster asked if the Residence Card would "become invalid [as] soon as I move out of the country" [emphasis added]. You said "Yes." to this.

I do not think it is so simple a situation as your one word answer would suggest.

Imagine they move to Denmark, and realize after three days that (for whatever reason) life sucks in Denmark, and so move back to the UK. Is the UK Residence Card really invalid, as you say? I am not so clear.

If they move back after a month, is the UK Residence Card invalid? I am not so clear.

I am clear that the Residence Card would be invalid after they have been gone from the UK for 6 months. That is what the Directive says, and though member states are allowed to be more generous, I doubt the UK (or Denmark) would allow Residence Cards to be valid over longer periods of non-residence.

[86ti]

People come here for specific advice and many are probably not (too) interested in the general legal background but only in resolution of their individual problem.

When somebody says they move out then I understand that they want to leave the country. If an IO learns that the EEA national has a job in another member state (not clearly being a cross-border worker) and apparently 'lives' there they may simply refuse entry. What may count for the UKBA is the intent. If somebody wants to play that game they will have to tread very carefully and be prepared for serious questions by the IO.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

People come here for specific advice and many are probably not (too) interested in the general legal background but only in resolution of their individual problem.

There are only clear YES/NO immigration answers for people who have very simple situations: typically they live in the same country as they work, and do not travel too much.

There are lots of areas of law related to EEA citizens and their family members that are not clear specified. Making personal decisions in this area involves either (1) guessing, (2) paying for professional legal advice which may or may not be of good quality, and (3) educating yourself about how the law works.

In my experience, (3) helps get better results with (1) and (2).