South African partner, pregnant, Help?

[Faithwolf]

Good afternoon, This is my first post here after weeks of reading, seeing if I could find a situation like mine, but, evidently not!

So, a quick bit of backstory (please feel free to ask questions, if it would help you advise us better)

I'm 25, British, No criminal record, Working fulltime, Renting space in a shared accomodation privately, I am receiving 0 benefits of any kind.

My partner is 20 (21 in october) and is South African, she is qualified as a CELTA teacher (teaching english language to non english speaking adults!) and teachers assistant.

We have been together several years, she lived with her family in Oman, (they moved away from SA because of the dangers.) we met online, and since then have met several times both in the UK and in Oman.

More recently, (december 23rd) we found out she was pregnant. It was meant to be a fantastic time, but instead has turned into a nightmare.

--(hopefully that covers the basics)

so, upon finding out, we were confused as to what to do, I love her, have for a long time, and marriage has been on the cards for a good 6 months prior to this revelation! so, we went to the CAB, where we were advised that the best course of action was to claim asylum. (At this point, those of you who know about this sort of thing are already going... WRONG!.. and you'd be correct!) we followed this advice, maybe foolishly, but I thought that they would know best. so, we went through the motions, paid the various fees/travel costs to ferry her up and down to croydon several times, only to have it denied. Ok, thats fine, we again sought advice, we were told to appeal it (again, by the CAB), so, I hired a lawyer from a site which looked genuine, and seems to be. and they started building the case

they appealed on the human rights article 3, and 8. and the decision was a negative.

now at this stage, she is 24 weeks pregnant, and we are left without a clue what happens next. in terms of appealing, we were informed it would cost 550? or thereabouts! which we simply couldnt afford, as rent had gone out that week and to be honest, I was still recovering from the hit the lawyer took out! so, 5 days pass, and we are unable to push it further.

last week (Monday the 9th of may) 2 UKBA enforcement 'officers' show up at our door, I happened to be off that day with a raging migraine, and hand us some paperwork, telling us she has 72 hours to leave (voluntary removal) then tried to pressure her into signing something, now please understand, at this stage, im close to losing my rag, Ive never broken the law, always paid taxes, all ive done, is fallen in love with a south african. and the way they were treating us was disgusting.

So, my partner was, and still is having alot of medical issues, she was very slim prior to the baby, and combined with all the sickness it brings, finds herself light headed and high blood pressure very easily, so we visited the doctor, he gave us a note saying she was unfit at the moment, and they pushed it till yesterday (wednesday the 18th).

so.

The place we are at now. my other half is back in SA. crashing with some friends she knows (but cant stay there forever.) we were told at the last moment by the UKBA, that a fiancee visa was the best way forward, and should have her back here 'asap' as its gone through.

What I simply need, is, advice. what should I be watching out for? what potential things 'could' go wrong, so that I can plan ahead.

we have done everything we can as far as I can see, and I just want some confirmation from you people who seem to know more then anyone else we have dealt with throughout.

so, to recap!

Partner (south african) is now back in SA. took voluntary return. (so, shouldnt face a ban, or so we were promised.)

Im still here in the uk, working hard every day, and wondering why I have to be apart from my partner and my soon to be daughter.

Please, I beg you, if you have anything which could help, let me know.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the poor layout/grammar, typing hastily on my lunch break!

EDIT: If it helps atall to know, we have alot of various 'evidence' from flight tickets, to days out we took, photos, rubbish stubs, restaurant bills. and we even have the Asylum appeal judge's notes on the case where he stated verbatim ' I believe this relationship to be genuine, and believe it will stand the test of time' so theoretically, should speed the process up?

for clarification also, we ARE engaged already. (by that I mean, I asked her to make me the luckiest man in the world!, but by legal standards I suppose you could say we arent.)

[Casa]

One major point the UKBA 'advisor' appears to have missed is that she will be unable to qualify for a fiancee or spouse visa until she reaches the age of 21 in October.

[Faithwolf]

Hey,

We were told, that this would be no issue, as that is in place to stop forced/underage marriages from the various countries where they arrange those sort of things.

This is actually, our first and largest hope, so whilst I fully expect you to be spot on, and them full of it.

At what stage of the application would they let us know this, because she is making her appointment to get the biometrics done as we speak? surely they wouldve stopped her already if she was under it?

[Casa]

Definately the age limit of 21 is still in place and covers all spouse and fiance visa applications. There has been a 'successful' appeal recently in the High Court, but as the Home Office are appealing this decision, a change in the Ruling isn't imminent. The Biometric appointment bears no significance as to whether the application is valid unfortunately. If you apply now for a fiance visa you risk losing the application fee. At best, I believe your fiancee could apply 3 months prior to her 21st birthday and ask for the entry visa to be postdated for after she reaches the qualifying age.
Regrettably the age restriction has left married couples with children separated...some who are looking at being apart for several years. Hopefully the Home Office will lose the appeal and the restriction will be removed.

[Greenie]

no they won't stop her from applying, but they may well refuse her because she is underage. The supposed aim of the rule is to prevent forced marriages but the whole problem with it is they are applying it in a blanket manner which means that even if the relationship is genuine they will refuse if either party is under 21. The Home Office has appealed the ongoing case law on this matter and hence the law still appeals. On appeal you may well suceed but that's no good for you because by then she will have had the baby.

I am suprised the fact that she could not apply for a fiance visa as she is under 21 did not come up as part of the appeal. I assume the fact that she was pregnant was considered during the appeal?

[Casa]

Greenie, I'm guessing that the pregnancy wasn't considered as she was applying for Asylum, which in the circumstances was never going to succeed. With a different category of application...maybe.

[Greenie]

Definately the age limit of 21 is still in place and covers all spouse and fiance visa applications. There has been a 'successful' appeal recently in the High Court, but as the Home Office are appealing this decision, a change in the Ruling isn't imminent. The Biometric appointment bears no significance as to whether the application is valid unfortunately. If you apply now for a fiance visa you risk losing the application fee. At best, I believe your fiancee could apply 3 months prior to her 21st birthday and ask for the entry visa to be postdated for after she reaches the qualifying age.
Regrettably the age restriction has left married couples with children separated...some who are looking at being apart for several years. Hopefully the Home Office will lose the appeal and the restriction will be removed.

I think we are replyimh at the same time Casa. the problem with asking for the visa to be post dated is that presumably by then she will have had the baby. Even if she is successful with applying for the visa (if they grant it outside the rules) she may well not be permitted to fly once she is in her third trimester. This really is appalling behaviour by UKBA enforcing removal of a heavily pregnant 20 year old, and very cynical. clearly they knew that if they waited much longer they would not have been able to enforce removal because she would be too pregnant to fly. Now she is probably stuck in SA until after the birth of the child.

[Faithwolf]

Aye that was where my question was leading xD no sense pissing 870 quid into the wind if they will turn around and say no.

Well, thanks for that. it seems we have to wait, which means the baby will be born in south africa.

Next question I have to ask is, will we run into issues afterwards? I wouldnt have thought so, because, the baby will be a british citizen? (Im the father, itll have my surname/name on the birth certificate.)

so then we just have to push the paperwork through right?

so, beyond the 21 thing.. how are we looking?

(thanks for the fast replies btw Casa. I really appreciate it)

[Greenie]

Greenie, I'm guessing that the pregnancy wasn't considered as she was applying for Asylum, which in the circumstances was never going to succeed. With a different category of application...maybe.

it should've been considered as part of her appeal on article 8 grounds.

[Casa]

The only slight concern with the application is regarding NHS treatment received while she was here....assuming that she didn't have private medical treatment.
You really would benefit from good legal advice to consider your options before the application is submitted.

[Greenie]

i think also it would be better if you married in SA and that way she can apply for the spouse visa when she reaches 21 rather than applying for fiance then spouse visa (fiance route is very expensive).

[Faithwolf]

Definately the age limit of 21 is still in place and covers all spouse and fiance visa applications. There has been a 'successful' appeal recently in the High Court, but as the Home Office are appealing this decision, a change in the Ruling isn't imminent. The Biometric appointment bears no significance as to whether the application is valid unfortunately. If you apply now for a fiance visa you risk losing the application fee. At best, I believe your fiancee could apply 3 months prior to her 21st birthday and ask for the entry visa to be postdated for after she reaches the qualifying age.
Regrettably the age restriction has left married couples with children separated...some who are looking at being apart for several years. Hopefully the Home Office will lose the appeal and the restriction will be removed.

I think we are replyimh at the same time Casa. the problem with asking for the visa to be post dated is that presumably by then she will have had the baby. Even if she is successful with applying for the visa (if they grant it outside the rules) she may well not be permitted to fly once she is in her third trimester. This really is appalling behaviour by UKBA enforcing removal of a heavily pregnant 20 year old, and very cynical. clearly they knew that if they waited much longer they would not have been able to enforce removal because she would be too pregnant to fly. Now she is probably stuck in SA until after the birth of the child.

Thanks guys! the baby is DUE on august 14th, she turns 21 on october the 29th. so the baby will already be here by then. they were very heavy handed indeed with the removal, she is 28 weeks on sunday, which would mean MANY Stupid wouldnt fly her on a 13 hour longhaul flight.

It has honestly turned me from a passionate brit, to hating the system I trusted in, it has made her sick with the stress, blacking out several times, bless her she is an emotional person. and this has really been a bad experience.

I should point out, I do not make... millions Infact, I'd say im on the lower end of the earnings bracket, but i support myself fully, etc, (only reason I bring this up is, each move we make, be it, applications, lawyers etc, is a huge financial hit. and so I have to make the right moves.

[Faithwolf]

2nd reply on this one.

The home office rep said this ' The rights of the baby cannot be considered as it is unborn, and anything can happen' and whilst true, thats a horrendous thing to say.

essentially, she has nowhere to stay in SA. and I cant afford to 'rent' two places, but what can I do? go there with her? and be jobless/useless?

so we have been forced into this situation, and just need to know essentially, how to get from where we are now back together. just able to have our family together.

Im hoping to be out there for the birth (again, sickened that I have to have my child born there..)

I dont quite understand what you mean Casa, why would NHS treatment received whilst here factor in? we had 1 scan (emergency, she was bleeding) prior to getting the asylum card which gave her healthcare during the process, which was paid for in full.

[Casa]

Looking ahead...you'll need to show sufficient finances to support the two of you and the baby without claiming Public Funds*, adequate accomodation and proof that the relationship is ongoing and genuine (the latter should be easy).
*You'll be able to claim child benefit under your name.

[Faithwolf]

ok, so, any imposed 'work restrictions' or benefit ones, do they also happen IF we went down the spouse route?

Accomodation is doable, as is the relationship! (ofc) I am panicking about the finances, I have no pride/shame about it one way or another, its a crappy salary, I work hard, but its a stepping stone job, staying here, will open doors to a MUCH better job in 3/5 years -

This is all such a living nightmare, I dont mean to 'lose focus' but my god, this forum needs a venting section so I can just type some obscenity in the general direction of govt officials!

[mochyn]

OMG what appalling advice and treatment given out by the CAB and UKBA
but what you should do now is to minimise the time you are apart and make the process of getting her back to the UK as easy as possible.
Go to SA to marry either before the birth of the baby or after then she
should apply for a spousal visa and then wait until she is 21 to enter the UK

[Faithwolf]

Does the spouse visa have a 21 rule too? I assume it does, but cant find any clarification on it?

If not, could I not just go over, marry her, and then bring her back on a spouse visa?

Either way... there isnt much hope of my baby being born in england is there? :<

[pennylessinindia]

Does the spouse visa have a 21 rule too? I assume it does, but cant find any clarification on it?

If not, could I not just go over, marry her, and then bring her back on a spouse visa?

Either way... there isnt much hope of my baby being born in england is there? :<

21 is the age. no hope of a UK birth now

[Casa]

Applies to a Spouse visa too unfortunately. There's no work restrictions as a Spouse, but she would be unable to work while on a fiancee visa until she'd switched to spouse after a UK wedding.
Finance rule of thumb: you need a minimum of £105.95 weekly remaining for the 2 of you + £64 (less a few pence) for your child after rent or mortgage, council tax and any loan repayments have been met.
You'll have to submit bank statements + pay slips with the application.

[Faithwolf]

Goddamnit,

so all I can really do now is bide my time, the proof of relationship is already there, in place, and even signed by a judge! cant get better!

and I already have accomodation, so I just keep that going. and.. save as much money as I can.

so from this, it seems that spouse visa trumps fiancee by a long shot?

[Casa]

Even weighing up the cost of the flight, it's likely to be the cheaper and quicker option. Just one application.
Bear in mind, regular income is more important than savings...unless they're significantly high.

[Faithwolf]

ah, well, regular income I can definately do.

this is a theoretical situation. so bear with me!

what IF. baby gets born in SA. now, itll be british (or so im told?) if it carries my name on the birth cert, married or not. and I was to fly out there and then bring the baby back with me. would this help the process?

I mean, Im not under and neither will my child be under any restrictions of anything, or claiming benefits etc (not that I wish to.)

and IF we were to do this. leaving my partner there. would it make it easier to get her here? (and would it help THAT if we shared the same surname/married)

Sorry to keep asking question after question, as im sure you can understand, Im very frustrated!

and thanks once again for all your fantastic help

[Greenie]

OMG what appalling advice and treatment given out by the CAB and UKBA
but what you should do now is to minimise the time you are apart and make the process of getting her back to the UK as easy as possible.
Go to SA to marry either before the birth of the baby or after then she
should apply for a spousal visa and then wait until she is 21 to enter the UK

i wouldn't necessarily blame the CAB i presume they advised her to claim asylum upon her instructions that she feared returning there (the OP states they left for Oman because of the 'dangers' in South Africa), whether or not the claim was viable was another matter but given the problems with applying for FLR(O) outside the rules, being refused and having no right of appeal unless a decision to remove is made, it is quite common for reps to advise the person to claim asylum if they express a fear as this means they can also raise article 8 issues which will also need to be considered at the same time.

[pennylessinindia]

ah, well, regular income I can definately do.

this is a theoretical situation. so bear with me!

what IF. baby gets born in SA. now, itll be british (or so im told?) if it carries my name on the birth cert, married or not. and I was to fly out there and then bring the baby back with me. would this help the process?

I mean, Im not under and neither will my child be under a ny restrictions of anything, or claiming benefits etc (not that I wish to.)

and IF we were to do this. leaving my partner there. would it make it easier to get her here? (and would it help THAT if we shared the same surname/married)

Sorry to keep asking question after question, as im sure you can understand, Im very frustrated!

and thanks once again for all your fantastic help

Do not think it would at all and you would separate a young baby from its mum and who would care for it while you were waiting - perhaps not a great idea

[Faithwolf]

I couldnt agree more, but if it would help get us together faster it'd be worth it!

as it stands we are still really lost I mean, without the whole, fiancee thing, we are basically at a stand still, its sheer madness, there has to be something I can do.

something to help move things along. so that she can get here the very day she turns 21 @ the latest.