Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI)

[British]

Sudeep,

All i am doing in my posts is to prove my point that Indian govt. is very very confused that OCI is just a visa.

You claim that OCI is just a visa, so it is very clear that you have not read my posts clearly and you have just stuck yourself to my point about losing consular protection alone. That is one of my points arising out of Indian govt. confused condtion.

Also note that UK has confirmed with Indian govt. recently that UK will treat OCI as dual citizenship and the Indian govt. has not objected to it nor gave any clarification to UK tha tit was just a visa rather than citizenship.

Also you are saying OCI is just a visa.

Hmm - which country will say this: "I will give you a VISA, BUT you have to ensure that your current nationality country allow DUAL citizenship, so you can take this visa!" :-)

That is an absurd requirement, if Indian govt. is just only giving you a Lifetime "visa".

But i can see that you are taking a biased look at my posts and are only thinking about the consular protection aspect i have indicated there.

All i was saying htere was that there was no practical difference between PIO and OCI and the Indian govt. is just making me laugh at this OCI proposal.

When considering options, you will have to step aside, keep away all your emotional aspects and think un-biased, looking at all points realisitically.

But anyway, i am not asking people to not take OIC here, all i am doing is just listing points to think about. That is all. Nobody is painting a horrible picture about India here. So don't just jump to conclusions and make horrendous and damaging comments like that.

I am an ex-Indian and i love India too. OK, so just keep cool!

I was simply listing some practical points and too my own opinion. If you don't like it move away, but you cannot and should not throw insults.

Learn some manners!

[sudeep_n]

British - I did not read your post and my post was not in response to what you said.

Unless of course you are 'legin' as well. I did not bother to read what u have said in previous posts nor did I post in response to or with ref to ur post.

Now who is touchy, over sensitive and needs to learn some manners.

And by the way all the anomalies of OCI , the visa with dual nationality conditions have been beaten to death in this thread already. So unless u have anything fresh to add there is no point in repeting the old stories.

Whether to get OCI or PIO is one's choice so far India allows it. OCI has already recd great response from world over including the UK. I have myself conveted PIO into OCI. The British consular protection while in India did not even touch my thought process abt it. But that's my thinking why label it emotional, baised etc.

Get some life man. Dont use this forum to vent ur frustration from your work or home here.

[legin]

Sundeep,

You jumped into conclusion that 'People are paiting wrong pic about India..' (I don't remember seeing this anywhere..)

My point was 'Indian bueracratic system is confusing and should be avoided'.. I love my ex-country India, and that doesn't mean i can't
critisize the state of the beuracratic system..

Now whether you want counsellor protection or not, is upto you.... Everyone here and in the world strives to be law abiding.. (there may be exceptions), but a perk like that is always good whether you use or not..

By the way, the british consellor protection has a lot more influence than many other countries as you would agree.. Again it's not the question of if you require it, its a nice-to-have perk..

Got my point??

[sudeep_n]

Well ok lets say we have different perspectives on that. I personally feel people wont need British consular protection in India. Saying that one will go for a costly PIO card option (and which one will have to repeat after every 15 yrs) instead of OCT card just for Consular Protection thinngy says a lot of one's view of India and its state of law and affairs.

OK. I wudnt want to beat this further to death. There are choices to be made and it depends on one's perspective which choice one makes.

[NRI]

Any idea what happens to OCI granted to children as the photo will not be recognizable after a few years? Do we have to renew it every 5 years like a passport?

thanks.

[AmitabhOz]

Hi, I am an Australian citizen.. however, regarding the OCI application from Mumbai, much of the information I need is same as anyone else applying from FRRO Mumbai.

I submitted my form to FRRO Mumbai personally on 14th June 2006. This is my story.

1) I did not get any kind of acknolwdgement / receipt of application. The said it will be sent from Delhi and they don't hand out any such receipts. Is this true? Has anyone who has applied from within India faced the same problem

2) The person gave me a handwritten "file number" on the spot. The file number however does not work on the online status enquiry form (It says "The file number is invalid")

3) I could not find a photographer to take photos on a "light" background.. Hence the background is almost white.. with my face covering about 80% of the area. It is of the right dimensions (35mm x 35 mm).
I want to know if this will be a problem.

How will I come to know that my application has been processed and the photos have been accepted/rejected? Will they send a snail mail? or will they send an email?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[AmitabhOz]

By the way, I also agree to the other posts that Indian OCI conditions are very absurd.. I am extremely irritated at the Indian Govt due to the following resons

1) I was mislead by the govt. in 2004 when they said on an official Indian website that whoever acquires foreign nationality after so and so date will be automatically considered a dual citizen of India (there are heaps of sites mentioning this, so I dont need to give any references). I believed the government and took Australian citizenship only to find out that this rule has been subsequently changed and Indian parliament has not approved the dual citizenship yet.

2) If it is just a lifelong visa, then why do they require my home country to allow dual citizenship?

3) If they require dual citizenship from my home country then OCI should be considered a real dual citizenship.. I should be able to travel using an Indian passport without having to show my Australian passport if needed.

4) Why do they constantly ramp about "Dual Citizenship" when the whole thing is just a sham?? I am not eligible to vote, I am not eligible to work in govt offices, I am not eligible to do research in India..

I think Indian govt needs to think very clearly what they are saying and then stick to it...

I personally feel that all this talk to up is to be blamed on the Congress governent, who don't know ABC of running a country.

[sudeep_n]

Hi, I am an Australian citizen.. however, regarding the OCI application from Mumbai, much of the information I need is same as anyone else applying from FRRO Mumbai.

I submitted my form to FRRO Mumbai personally on 14th June 2006. This is my story.

1) I did not get any kind of acknolwdgement / receipt of application. The said it will be sent from Delhi and they don't hand out any such receipts. Is this true? Has anyone who has applied from within India faced the same problem

2) The person gave me a handwritten "file number" on the spot. The file number however does not work on the online status enquiry form (It says "The file number is invalid")

3) I could not find a photographer to take photos on a "light" background.. Hence the background is almost white.. with my face covering about 80% of the area. It is of the right dimensions (35mm x 35 mm).
I want to know if this will be a problem.

How will I come to know that my application has been processed and the photos have been accepted/rejected? Will they send a snail mail? or will they send an email?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Firstly congrats on your application for OCI.

To answer your questions -
1. That's true. Even from Delhi you wud not get any recpt. But no worries the system works. You will get an email from MHA Delhi.

2. That file number will not work online. MHA Delhi will send you a mail that will contain the reference number and with that you can track online the status of your application.

3. Photo should be ok. Anyway most people have faced probs with photos even when they said perfect photos. So be ready for couple of iterations there but generally they are not very strict on photos standard. Their scanning machine though is funny so it cud give unexpected results and they will ask you to send the photographs again.

In short photos is not a big prob - all you need is be prepared to send the photos again (and again).

They will send you an email with ref number normally in 3-4 weeks from the date you applied at Mumbai FRRO. Once you get that number lot of things become easier since you can track the progress and status online. The things become more visible.

So relax the system works.

Some useful info can be found at. You may have to do a bit of scrolling up n down or searching but some really useful info :

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showth ... ost1462367

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showth ... t=frro+oci

[sudeep_n]

AmitabhOz - to respond to your another post - these things have been beaten to death not only in this thread but in the links I shared with you and http://groups.msn.com/r2iclub/general.m ... 1527177045

All questions you ask are perfectly logical but when law starts logic ends...

I personally look at it as one good thing because with OCI I get all that I need. I am not interested in agricultural land, voting rights, public sector job in India. I did not want it or use it when I was an Indian Citizen or even when I was in India. And therefore, I fine with what OCI offers.

Now of course Indian origin people who are citizens of the countries that do not allow dual citizenship are deprived of this. But atleast they have route of PIO card.

Someone who works in MHA told me that they had to come up with some logic to allow OCI only for certain countries and not others. So they devised this 'countries allowing dual citizenship'. Earlier when they came up with just a list of 8 countries everyone questioned that and it was difficult for them to answer the reason for discrimination. So they played a game to put this requirement - now it is absurd but achives what they wnated to.

Not sure if that's the fact.

[SubChand1]

Hi

Due to the time it takes to process the OCI, I am now thinking of getting PIO card for my travel plan and convert it to OCI in future, I am now filling PIO card for my daughter and myself, I have few doubts, could someone help me on that please.

1. (1.a) Name of the applicant .. I write my daughters FIRSTNAME..SURNAME FORMAT. is that correct. and leave (1.b) and (1.c) blank.

2. NATIONALITY AT THE TIME OF BIRTH, our daughter was born when we had ILR and I got british passport for her based on our ILR. So this section should that be 'BRITISH' ?

3. (10) Passport details, whats the place of issue for my daughters british passport, I cant see any such thing on her passport.

last question on photos, I am taking 4 of her passport photos that was taken for british passport, is that acceptable?. and also could someone tell me what supporting documents I need to take with me.

Any members advice will be much appreciated.

thank you

[legin]

Guys if you think you might be in a similar situation this would help..
If you need,

A) To travel India at short notice,
B) Would prefer not so expensive Visa alternative

Solution :
5 yr. settlement multi-entry visa seems to be the right option.. (Cost 90£ and issued same day..)

This 5yr period should give us enough time to apply for OCI/PIO (maybe),
and there is also a chance that India Govt. might clean up the shamble/confusion surrounding the OCI hype..

Guys let me know if there are any obvious pitfalls taking the settlement visa route..

Here are the reasons why i wouldn't go for the PIO/OCI route -

OCI Route - Long processing timeline, expensive and confusing
PIO Route - Expensive, Weeks processing time and extra card to carry..

[sudeep_n]

No pitfall except you dont get benefits that PIO and OCI enjoy....

e.g. no employement visa needed, no registration needed for lifetime if OCI, multi-purpose visa....

So be careful not to work in India with visitor visa.

[British]

"5 yr. settlement multi-entry visa??" I never even knew this existed. But then again, why does Indian government call it as a "settlement visa" but does not allow one to work etc.

I have never heard of a "settlement visa" that allows the holder to remain as a tourist in that country.

All this can happen only with Indian government.

Ha!

[legin]

Did take some researching to find that a Visa like this even existed..

Its issued only to persons of Indian Origin and is also called,

Entry Visa / Long Term Visa / Settlement Visa
(Quite confusing)

But the sticky point would be if it doesn't allow the person to work??
Sundeep are you sure that one cannot work with this Visa.. I tried searching FAQs and Visa notes on this issue but didn't find any
confirming the same..

Can someone share light on this?

[SubChand1]

Hi

I am filling the application form for PIO card, and I need your hlep urgently on the following. Anyone who has applied for PIO card before please help.

I recently got British citizenship and my indian passport is not cancelled yet. I am applying for PIO, in the application form question 13 goes

"Have you or your parents, grand parents held Indian passport before? "(Please attach photocopies of relevant documents).

Is it enough if I just enter my details there or should I
inculde my fathers details as well who lives in India. He has a passport, but I dont have photocopies of his passport. Is it mandatory to inculde his name in there?.

In question 15 again same info is asked, do I have to inculde my fathers details there also?.

I would be greatful to anyone who can help me.

Thank you

[sudeep_n]

Overseas Citizenship of India - Not a Dual Citizenship of India


Overview
Despite all the news coverage and excitement over this issue, please
understand clearly that the Constitution of India does NOT allow dual
citizenship, i.e., holding Indian citizenship and citizenship of a foreign
country simultaneously.

Government of India decided to grant Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI) which most people mistakenly refer as 'dual citizenship'. Persons of
Indian Origin (PIOs) of certain category who migrated from India and
acquired citizenship of a foreign country other than Pakistan and
Bangladesh, are eligible for grant of OCI as long as their home countries
allow dual citizenship in some form or the other under their local laws.

If you get OCI, it is NOT same as being a regular Indian citizen:

You do not get an Indian passport.


No voting rights.


Can not be candidate for Lok Sabha/Rajya Sabha/Legislative
Assembly/Council


Can not hold constitutional posts such as President, Vice President,
Judge of Supreme Court/High Court etc.


Cannot normally hold employment in the Government.


As OCI, you get following benefits:
Multiple entry, multi-purpose life long visa to visit India;


Exemption from reporting to police authorities for any length of stay in
India; and


Parity with NRIs in financial, economic and educational fields except in
the acquisition of agricultural or plantation properties.
Any further benefits to OCIs will be notified by the Ministry of Overseas
Indian Affairs (MOIA) under section 7B(1) of the Citizenship Act, 1955.

A person registered as OCI is eligible to apply by the Ministry of
citizenship under section 5(1)(g) of the Citizenship Act, 1955 if he/she
is registered as OCI for five years and has been residing in India for one
year out of the five years before making the application. However, such
person would have to renounce foreign citizenship.

OCI scheme is being operational from Dec 2, 2005. It has been decided that
formal launching of scheme will be done by Prime Minister at Pravasi
Bharatiya Divas on Jan 7, 2006 at Hyderabad by symbolically handing over
the first OCI certificate to a person of Indian origin.

It is anticipated that a large number of Indian Diaspora will be benefited
by this scheme for a hassle free travel to their motherland. They will
bring economic value and benefits to Indian economy and contribute to the
development process.

PIO vs. OCI
Compared to PIO card, OCI offers following benefits:
OCI is entitled to life long visa free travel to India whereas for PIO
cardholder, it is for 15 years.


PIO cardholder is required to register with local Police authority for
stay exceeding 180 days in India on any single visit whereas OCI is
exempted from registration with Police authority for any length of stay in India.

[sudeep_n]

Did take some researching to find that a Visa like this even existed..

Its issued only to persons of Indian Origin and is also called,

Entry Visa / Long Term Visa / Settlement Visa
(Quite confusing)

But the sticky point would be if it doesn't allow the person to work??
Sundeep are you sure that one cannot work with this Visa.. I tried searching FAQs and Visa notes on this issue but didn't find any
confirming the same..

Can someone share light on this?

It is entry visa. AFAIK it is a kind of business visit / tourist visa only difference is the period of validity is 5 years.

Look at this on HCI website

Entry Visas are issued to persons of Indian origin for duration of up to five years. These can be obtained, depending on the purpose of visit and eligibility, on a case-by-case basis.

http://www.hcilondon.net/visa/entry-visa.html

Entry Visas are issued to persons of Indian origin for duration of up to five years. These can be obtained, depending on the purpose of visit and eligibility, on a case-by-case basis.

Please note that persons holding long-term visas (having validity exceeding six months) are normally not expected to stay in India more than six months during each visit. Please refer to the link further down for requirement to register with the Foreigners Registration Office (FRO)/Foreigners Regional Registration Office (FRRO).

I would be extremely carefull before stepping into India with this visa for employment.

[legin]

Having looked at the below hcilondon website, I understand there are 2 visa types,

1) Entry Visa
2) Long term/Settlement visa

I think with Long-term/Settlement Visa one will be allowed to work.. But doesn't say anywhere... I'm not able to find the guidance(if there is one) notes or seperate application form for the above Visa types..

http://www.hcilondon.org/visa.htm#Visa%20fees

[sudeep_n]

Here comes the form - http://www.hcilondon.net/services/visa- ... t-visa.pdf

I dont think this is a visa that you can use to be on and off work like PIO. You need to really be looking to return to India for settlement. This visa is for people who want to genuienly go back and settle in India.

This convinces me more that taking OCI to be the best option (at least for me).

The beauty of PIO (even more for OCI since it is for lifetime and no registration required) is that there is no stay requirement in India, no need to move funds to India etc.

This settlement visa looks to be even more qmbiguious than PIO / OCI. For me OCI is an excellent option - I had a PIO which I upgraded to OCI. Today I dont have any worries and for all it is worth I wont have to see Indian High Commission for my life time. UK citizens Indian origins are priviledged to have OCI since UK allows dual natioanality.

[global]

actually in India no one cares ....PIO / OCI / Visa / no Visa - you can do anything

it is only after staying here in Western World the Indian people get very anxious about all the admin and legal processes in India.

One needs to worry about what will happen in the UK because UK is so strict on law not about what will happen in India

[cybergeek]

Trying to compile a checklist of requirements for an OCI Application at London HCI.

1. Completed application Forms A (printed from website) & B in duplicate.

2. Two Full copies of Indian Passport

3. Two Full copies of Foreign (eg British) Passport

4. All copied pages should have:-

Self Attested
signature
[Name]
date

5. 4 spare 35X35 Passport Photos (Is it 4 or 8?) excluding the two stuck on the two Form A's. (Check Photo specifications.)

6. Fee of 165 pound sterling (Cash or Demand Draft) per applicant.


7. In case of a family application (OCI) do all applicants physically need to be present at the counter at the time of filing the application?

Is there anything else? Also please mention whether it is 4 or 8 spare photos.


Many thanks.

[sudeep_n]

Please go thru the link below and this thread thoroughly before asking further questions.

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showth ... p?t=209468

[jaihind]

Finally the UKHO have made sense of the babus understanding of Dual Nationality with respect to India and have clarified this.
You may want to check this out.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... itizenship


The Ministry of Home Affairs, India, has recently provided further information on a number of points of Indian citizenship law. The effect of this is that a number of individuals that we believed to be dual British/Indian nationals are in fact solely British.

PS: This webpage is often fussy and does not show up details - but keep checking.
Good news for those who have considered applying for an OCI visa - Too late for those who have gone in for a PIO card recently .

[sudeep_n]

well it was only a matter of time.....

This was to come some day or the other. I never thought / believed for a second that OCI would stand as dual citizenship in any court in this world.

Anyway good that they have cleared that in black & white - lot of people who had unreal fear about it would be reprieved.

[sudeep_n]

even for PIO applicanrs / holders - for 25 USD u can upgrade to OCI any time.