Exercising EU Treaty rights in Holland

[scrudu]

Hi there,

I am an Irish citizen, and after being constantly frustrated by the Immigration system in Ireland, am considering leaving to look for work in another EU state. My husband is a non-EEA citizen (Indonesian), and we were considering moving to Holland.

Has anyone been through the process of applying (EU 1) for their EU treaty rights in Holland? How difficult is the process and how long did it take to process?

Thanks,

[JAJ]

I am an Irish citizen, and after being constantly frustrated by the Immigration system in Ireland, am considering leaving to look for work in another EU state. My husband is a non-EEA citizen (Indonesian), and we were considering moving to Holland.

Has anyone been through the process of applying (EU 1) for their EU treaty rights in Holland? How difficult is the process and how long did it take to process?

Visit http://www.ind.nl

But you do know that EEA rules don't oblige the Netherlands to offer citizenship? In other words he might be stuck with an Indonesian passport for a long time.

[scrudu]

I guess we havent thought that far ahead. At the moment we just want to find a place where we can live in the same country and work.

There is also no entitlement to citizenship in Ireland should we decide to stay here. The Minister and his department reserve the right to refuse any application at their complete discretion.

The pathway to citizenship will involve:

• a. waiting approx 16-18 months for his initial "Leave to Remain" Application (and work rights) to be processed
  b. then living and working 3 out of the the following 4 years after in Ireland
  c. submitting an application requiring a *lot* of proof of the relationship
  d. then waiting 1 year then for this application to be processed
  e. and at the end of the day, all decisions being at the "absolute discretion of the Minister and his dept"

So a total of about 6 years, and then possibly being refused. Not exactly the most clear path

[Dawie]

If you're looking for a relatively developed immigration service why not come to the UK instead?

[JAJ]

I guess we havent thought that far ahead. At the moment we just want to find a place where we can live in the same country and work.

There is also no entitlement to citizenship in Ireland should we decide to stay here. The Minister and his department reserve the right to refuse any application at their complete discretion.

Naturalisation in the United Kingdom is technically discretionary, however there is a well developed set of policies underlying this discretion and it does not depend on the whim of a civil servant.

It's not clear whether naturalisation processes in the Republic of Ireland have got anything like the same degree of transparency.

If you're going to do something as drastic as move countries, you've got to try to look beyond the immediate problem. It seems to me that the United Kingdom would be a more obvious solution if you have decided to move countries. You could even just move across the border to Northern Ireland.

The only small problem is that as you're not a British citizen your spouse will have to wait longer for British citizenship than would otherwise be the case : if you go the domestic route, 2 years on a spouse visa, then 3 years on ILR before being eligible for naturalisation (the EEA family permit would mean an extra year). If you were British it would be just 2 years on spouse visa and 1 year on ILR.

[scrudu]

Dawie: That is indeed something we are considering.

JAJ: What do you mean by "going the domestic route"?

So if we were to head to the UK, the first thing we would have to apply for is a "Spouse Visa". Is this different from a EEA family permit? I was reading on http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 8721068382 which says that my spouse should fill out a "VAF1 - non-settlement" application.

[John]

The UK does issue EEA Family Permits as well! Indeed all EEA countries do that. The only proviso is that ordinarily you can't get an EEA Family Permit from your own Government, only from other EEA Governments.

Scrudu, where is your husband now? In which country?

[JAJ]

Dawie: That is indeed something we are considering.

JAJ: What do you mean by "going the domestic route"?

So if we were to head to the UK, the first thing we would have to apply for is a "Spouse Visa". Is this different from a EEA family permit? I was reading on http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 8721068382 which says that my spouse should fill out a "VAF1 - non-settlement" application.

"Going the domestic route" means applying for a spouse visa under normal UK rules rather than an EEA Family Permit. Irish citizens can sponsor under normal UK rules rather than the EEA route if they wish.

There are pros and cons of each approach, but bear in mind a significant downside of the EEA permit compared to the standard spouse visa. Permanent residence in five years rather than just two.

[scrudu]

John: My husband is currently in Ireland and has another 6 weeks left on the tourist visa he entered on. We had thought that we could be processed by the GNIB in Dublin for him to receive his Residence Permit, but as he is from a "visa-required" nation, this is not possible. Hence us trying to figure out the best move from here.

He can either return home to apply for a D-Spouse visa to return here, but we have been warned as we are not married a long time that this could be refused

Or he can begin the process of applying for perm residency here in Ireland. The fact that it will take 16-18 months (during which he can't work) is seriously putting us off that idea.

Or, we can see about moving to another EU State to exercise my EU Treaty rights.

None of the options are ideal really, as each have their own set of Cons.

JaJ: Thanks for clearing that up. I didnt realise that the UK offered for IRL citizens could sponsor under regular UK rules. That's good news at least! I'll read up more on that to figure out our options.

[JAJ]

JaJ: Thanks for clearing that up. I didnt realise that the UK offered for IRL citizens could sponsor under regular UK rules. That's good news at least! I'll read up more on that to figure out our options.

Most EEA nationals in the UK can be granted permanent resident status after 5 years. This carries with it a few things, including the right to sponsor under standard UK rules, eligibility for naturalisation and British citizenship for UK-born children.

Irish citizens, because of the Common Travel Area, are exempt from having to wait 5 years.

One further issue you should consider is whether your fiance can apply for a UK visa at the British Embassy in Dublin. He may have to return to Indonesia. A further option you should look at is (especially if he could apply in Dublin) an EEA Family Permit initially, to get him into the UK, and then switching to a normal spouse visa on an in-country basis.

[scrudu]

JAJ: Unfortunately at this late stage (i.e. 6 weeks before his visa expires), any option may involve a trip back to Indonesia.

I'll get in contact with the British Embassy here and find out if we can apply for here, but I imagine both processes take a number of months to process, during which time he would have to leave Ireland. So we may end up with my husband applying from Indonesia, while I stay here for work.

[JAJ]

I'll get in contact with the British Embassy here and find out if we can apply for here, but I imagine both processes take a number of months to process, during which time he would have to leave Ireland. So we may end up with my husband applying from Indonesia, while I stay here for work.

You might need to be resident in the United Kingdom before you're in a position to sponsor.

[Kayalami]

A further option you should look at is (especially if he could apply in Dublin) an EEA Family Permit initially, to get him into the UK, and then switching to a normal spouse visa on an in-country basis.

EEA Family permits are now issued with 6 months validity. Under the immigration rules those with leave to enter (or presumably admitted under EU Treaty laws) of 6 months or less validity other than that where such is a fiance visa may not switch to a spouse visa on the basis of a relationship with a person present and settled in the UK. It would seem they would have to wait to near the 6 month mark then apply for an extension on EU Treaty rules get a 5 year permit then apply to switch to spouse further lengthening the timeline to ILR.

[JAJ]

EEA Family permits are now issued with 6 months validity. Under the immigration rules those with leave to enter (or presumably admitted under EU Treaty laws) of 6 months or less validity other than that where such is a fiance visa may not switch to a spouse visa on the basis of a relationship with a person present and settled in the UK. It would seem they would have to wait to near the 6 month mark then apply for an extension on EU Treaty rules get a 5 year permit then apply to switch to spouse further lengthening the timeline to ILR.

Correct. However it may still be the right option in some cases where there is difficulty in sponsoring for a spouse visa at the outset, but clear eligibility for the EEA Family Permit. It means ILR in approximately 3 years (rather than 2) but it's still better than the 5 year timescale.

And those who could qualify for immediate ILE/ILR on spouse grounds should only consider the EEA Family Permit in the most exceptional of circumstances.