EEA: Over stayer/EEA partner - Pls help!

[malinkaaa21]

which country are u from in europe ? and what kind of visa application did u apply for your husband in homeoffice? and what did they say in the refusal letter?

I AM COME FROM POLAND. WE APPLAY FOR EEA FAMILY PERMIT.
THE DECISION:
- YOU MERRIED MALWINA ON 11/06/2010 AT THE EMBASSY OF ALBANIA IN LONDON. HOWEVER, YOUR MARRIAGE CONDUCTED AT FOREIN MISSIONS IN UK ARE NOT RECOGNISED AND THEREFORE YOUR MARRIAGE IS NOT VALID. THE EXCEPTIONS IS IF PREMISES ARE APPROVED BY THE LOCAL AUTHORYTY FOR SOLEMNISATION OF MARRAGE. WHILST I AM SATISFIED FROM SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS THAT U ARE IN SUBSISTING RELATIONSHIP WITH EEA NATIONAL AND WHILST I HAVE NOTE THAT U HAVE CHILD TOGETER, YOU ARE NOT RECOGNISED AS THE FAMILY MEMBER ACCORDANCE WITH THE EEA REGULATION OF EEA NATIONAL BECPUSE YOUR MARRIAGE IS NOT RECOGNISED BYUKBA.
- YOUR UK IMMIGRATION HISTORY IS NOT STRAITFORWARD ONE. YOU DECLARED THE TIME YOU HAVE SPENT IN UK AND GIVE DETAILS OF ANOTHER IDENTITIES AND NATIONALITY THART U AJSSUMED FOR PART OF THAT TIME. IS NOT CLEAR WHEN DID U SWITCHED IDENTITIES FROM SAHIT. K... (SERBIAN) TO SAHIT KLM.(ALBANIAN) AND IN THE ABSENCE OF VERIFIABLE(TIMELY) DOCUMENTS EVIDENCE OF YOUR TRUE INDENTITY, SUCH AS ORGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, I AM NOT SATISFIELD THAT YOUR IDENTITY IS AS YOU CLAIM. THE PERSONAL CERTIFICA1TE THAT YOU PRESENT IS OF LIMITED EVIDENTIAL VALUE, SINCE SEPTEMBER 2010 AS YOUR CURRENT ALBANIAN ID CARD AND DOES NOT CONFIRM YOUR BIRTH NAME AND DATE OR ANY ATHER OFFICAL NOTIFICATION TO SUGGEST THAT YOU CHCANGE YOUR PERSONAL DETAILS IN ANY WAY.
- I THEREFORE REFUSE YOUR EEA FAMILY PERMIT APPLICATION BECAUSE I AM NOT SATISFIELD THAT YOU MEET ALL OF REQUIREMENTS OF REGULATION 12 OF THE IMMIGRATION EEA REGULATIONS 2006.

WE HAD RIGHT TO APPEL AND WE DID WE SEND POLISH MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE WITH TRANSLATOR AND ALBANIAN MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE WITH APPOSTILE AND TRANSLATE, WE LEGALISATE OUR MARRIAGE IN ALBANIA REGISTRY OFFICE AND ALSO IN POLISH, WE INCULDE ALSO BIRTH CERTIFICATE OF MY HUSBAND AND HIS FAMILY CERTIFICATE.

[smallpie]

directive, john, vinny, and the other superiors. can u plz advice on this issue.?
and follow the other questions too.. its abit complicated that maybe u guys will be able to give advice.

Posted: 25-11-2011 Post subject: EEA visa appeal

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according to "malinkaa21"
HELLO! I AM EEA AND MY HUSBAND COME FROM ALBANIA NON EUROPEN COUNTRY WE ARE MARRIED SINCE 11.06.2010 AND WE HAVE 17 MONTHS OLD DAUGHTER I AM LEAVING WITH HER IN UK SHE ALSO BORN IN UK AND NOW I AM PRAGNANT IN 23 WEEKS. WE GOT REFUSED TWO TIMES VISA FOR MY PARTNER IN THIS YEAR AND NOW WE ARE WAITNIG FOR TRYBUNAL APPEAL AROUND 10/08/2011. WE MEET IN LONDON AND WE WAS LEAVING TOGETHER ALMOST 4 YEARS BUT MY HUSBAND COME TO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY IN 2002 AND HE CLAIM DIFFRENT NAME AND NATIONALITY THAT TIME. IN HOME OFFICE THEY HAVE HIS FINGER PRINT AS DIFFRENT PERSON BECAUSE HE CLAIM ASYLUM IN 2002 AS SERBIAN NATIONALITY. PLEASE TELL US WHAT WE CAN DO NOW TO CHANGE HIS NAME IN HOME OFFICE FOR THE REAL ONE AND REAL NATIONALITY. HE LEFT UK IN 08/2010 WITH AIRPLANE WITH ALBANIAN TRAVEL DOCUMENT. PLEASE HELP WHAT WE CAN DO TO STRAIT THIS EVERYTHINK BECAUSE I AM WAITNIG FOR HIM REALLY LONG NOW AND SOON I DONT GONNA BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OD OUR DAUTHER AND IF ANYTHINK HAPPEND TO ME SHE DONT HAVE ANY ONE TO TAKE CARE OF HER IN HIER.
_________________
Malwina

[smallpie]

malinkaaa, its abit complicated for me to say sometin on it. but it looks like its not been straight forward frm the start, when he had to claim to ukba that he is from serbia and had to get finger-printed while claiming asylum and using his real name and d.o.b.
using his real identity with the EEA apllication , now made it open out to the ukba, and as they say again, your marriage is not recognized/registered coz it was done in albanian and polish embassy.. what the ukba requires with marriage is at the registry or the church of england. maybe your husband should have went to the court to sworn an affidavit of change on name to real albanian name and d.o.b b4 applyng for the EEA.

try toput your request forwrad to the superior guys on here such as john, vinny 86ti, directive and others. they will be able to give useful advice..am sure they will advice better.

[malinkaaa21]

malinkaaa, its abit complicated for me to say sometin on it. but it looks like its not been straight forward frm the start, when he had to claim to ukba that he is from serbia and had to get finger-printed while claiming asylum and using his real name and d.o.b.
using his real identity with the EEA apllication , now made it open out to the ukba, and as they say again, your marriage is not recognized/registered coz it was done in albanian and polish embassy.. what the ukba requires with marriage is at the registry or the church of england. maybe your husband should have went to the court to sworn an affidavit of change on name to real albanian name and d.o.b b4 applyng for the EEA.

try toput your request forwrad to the superior guys on here such as john, vinny 86ti, directive and others. they will be able to give useful advice..am sure they will advice better.

Thank you for help I will try to contact them to ask how to do that. About marriage we got married in albanian embassy in london but we register our marriage in albanian registry office after that and also in polish registry office so that have to be recognise by them cos is not other way how we could register our marriage. also the certificate we send them when we appeal before we just used certificate from albanian embassy that was mistake cos that marriage certificate is not valid.

[John]

malinkaaa21, why are you shouting? On the internet posting in block capitals is equivalent to shouting, and on this board such postings are liable to be deleted without warning.

YOU MERRIED MALWINA ON 11/06/2010 AT THE EMBASSY OF ALBANIA IN LONDON. HOWEVER, YOUR MARRIAGE CONDUCTED AT FOREIN MISSIONS IN UK ARE NOT RECOGNISED AND THEREFORE YOUR MARRIAGE IS NOT VALID.

That is pretty clear, and factually correct. Marriages conducted in embassies and consulates in the UK are not recognised as a legal marriage by the UK.

WE SEND POLISH MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE WITH TRANSLATOR

What are you saying? You also got married in Poland?

Where is your "husband" now? Which country?

[malinkaaa21]

malinkaaa21, why are you shouting? On the internet posting in block capitals is equivalent to shouting, and on this board such postings are liable to be deleted without warning.

YOU MERRIED MALWINA ON 11/06/2010 AT THE EMBASSY OF ALBANIA IN LONDON. HOWEVER, YOUR MARRIAGE CONDUCTED AT FOREIN MISSIONS IN UK ARE NOT RECOGNISED AND THEREFORE YOUR MARRIAGE IS NOT VALID.

That is pretty clear, and factually correct. Marriages conducted in embassies and consulates in the UK are not recognised as a legal marriage by the UK.

WE SEND POLISH MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE WITH TRANSLATOR

What are you saying? You also got married in Poland?

Where is your "husband" now? Which country?

Sory I didnt mean to shounting hahaha
About our marriage certificate is that is legalisate in albania govement and with albanian law we are legally married in albania and afterwoods i register albanian marriage certificate in poland and i have already change my id card and i have surname my husband.

[John]

Well sorry, I still think that in the eyes of the UK Government the two of you are not legally married. I think until you solve that, by getting legally married somewhere, I don't think this is solvable, given your "husband"'s "unfortunate" UK immigration history. that history is catching up on him!

Again :-

Where is your "husband" now? Which country?

[malinkaaa21]

He is in albania at the moment, can you please give me some advice how to change his name in home office? i speak with some lawer and he said that is possible i just need to fill up some form please can u say me which one is that and where can i find that? thank you

[John]

Why would changing his name help? His name is whatever it is. However he needs to disclose the name used for previous application(s).

Is there a procedure in Albania for the two of you to get married again in that country? Or does the fact the two of you are married in the eyes of the Albanian government prevent the two of you marrying again there?

Likewise, Poland. Does the fact that the marriage is recognised in Poland prevent the two of you entering into another marriage there?

If (re-)marriage is impossible in those two countries, in the absence of a divorce first, any idea where the two of you might get married? If you are thinking of the UK, for example in a Register Office here, there is no provision in the EU/EEA regulations for a fiancé visa. However, because of that, there is provision in the UK immigration law for an application to be made for a fiancé visa, even if you are not yet holding PR status. But that application would be a paid-for application, not free like the EEA Family Permit application. And his previous UK immigration history might cause problems.

Actually do you have PR status in the UK? How long have you been in the UK exercising Treaty Rights?

[malinkaaa21]

Why would changing his name help? His name is whatever it is. However he needs to disclose the name used for previous application(s).

Is there a procedure in Albania for the two of you to get married again in that country? Or does the fact the two of you are married in the eyes of the Albanian government prevent the two of you marrying again there?

Likewise, Poland. Does the fact that the marriage is recognised in Poland prevent the two of you entering into another marriage there?

If (re-)marriage is impossible in those two countries, in the absence of a divorce first, any idea where the two of you might get married? If you are thinking of the UK, for example in a Register Office here, there is no provision in the EU/EEA regulations for a fiancé visa. However, because of that, there is provision in the UK immigration law for an application to be made for a fiancé visa, even if you are not yet holding PR status. But that application would be a paid-for application, not free like the EEA Family Permit application. And his previous UK immigration history might cause problems.

Actually do you have PR status in the UK? How long have you been in the UK exercising Treaty Rights?

Dear John our marriage is valid and register in Albania by the law there we are already married and by the law in poland we are married too if our marriege was gonna be non recognised i was dont gonna be able to change my id or passport by europen law our marriage is valid when the documents are legalisate and have apostille that mean that by europen law have to accept them i think is not problem about that i think is the problem because my husband luie when he come to uk in 2002 and he claim nationality serbian when he applay for asylum seeker he also change his real surname to a diffrent one and he have finger print on that name when we applay for eea family permit he used his orginal name and nationalitybut we didnt change thhis details in home office to strait up who he really is. pleaseif u can give me some advice witch form should i fill up or he to change his details in home office?
thank you!

[John]

As already explained, like it or not, the UK does not recognise your marriage! The UK's marriage law is very clear and premises where a legal marriage can take place are clearly defined in the legislation. As a fact no embassies or consulates of foreign countries, in London or elsewhere in the UK, are designated.

The Albanian Embassy is not being singled out. For example the Thai Embassy in London also registers marriages, but those are also not recognised as legal marriages by the UK.

So I ask again, how do you propose to deal with the fact that the UK does not recognise your marriage?

As regards your "husband" and the desire to "to change his details in home office", I am not sure what you are trying to achieve. He previously made an application under a different name, and obviously the fact that he made such an application cannot be erased.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

malinkaaa21,

You might want to check with the people at the Albanian embassy if you can travel to Albania and again marry your husband (again) in a way that is more acceptable to UKBA.

You could also appeal the decision, saying that the marriage is recognized by the Polish government and so should be recognized by the UK.

[malinkaaa21]

malinkaaa21,

You might want to check with the people at the Albanian embassy if you can travel to Albania and again marry your husband (again) in a way that is more acceptable to UKBA.

You could also appeal the decision, saying that the marriage is recognized by the Polish government and so should be recognized by the UK.

Thank you for your advice! Yes we did appeal already we are waitning for trybunal decision witch will be made around 10/08/2011.
Do you have some idea how to strait in homeoffice my husband real name and nationality is somethink what i can do it hier in england?? i know that some people did that by taking lawer we dont have money for that at the moment cos my husband is not working and i am self emloyed working just 16h per week.
thank you for all help to John as well

[John]

You could also appeal the decision, saying that the marriage is recognized by the Polish government and so should be recognized by the UK.

Unfortunately I think there is no scope there. That is, if the marriage is in the UK then the legislation is very clear. The marriage must take place in a building that is registered for the purpose of marriages, as defined in the Act. And a UK-style marriage certificate issued. And again I say, no foreign embassy or consulate in the UK has been so registered.

A marriage outside the UK? Again the law is clear. The UK's Foreign Marriages Act 1892 states that if a marriage takes place outside the UK and is recognised as a legal marriage by the Government of the place where the marriage took place, then the UK will also recognise that as a legal marriage.

(My own marriage was in a foreign country, is a legal marriage under legislation of that country, and is fully recognised as a legal marriage by the UK.)

But the marriage we are talking about here did not take place outside the UK, so the Foreign Marriages Act 1892 is irrelevant. As is the fact that at least two countries, Albania and Poland, appear to accept the marriage as a legal marriage.

malinkaaa21, I wish the news was better.

As regards the Tribunal, on what grounds are you appealing? If it is that the marriage is a legal marriage, then I fear that you are bound to lose.

[malinkaaa21]

Thank you for your answer! We will see what trybunal will deside I think we have another otion to go to Poland and make my husband resident card in ther and with that come to england and after that take marriage in church of england after that we will make his 5 years visa
i just dont know how to strait his personality in home office so that dont be any more problems for us.. it has to be some how because my husbant frinds had the same situation but lawer sort out fo them that.

[smallpie]

malinkaa, looking at yr case, i think the your husband has messed it up abit frm the start. by applying with a diffrnt name for asylum and finger printed as a serbian.. with these i dont think he can claim or change his name anymore.." that can be tagged as identity fraud'.
but as the superiors has said on here, the marriage is not recognise by the UK authorities.. and that is true.
but maybe if 'possible' u can go to albania or poland to get married proper again as a new couple, and am sure, uk authorities will accept that certificate. get divorced 1st and re-married again.
its abit long process and time consuming, but if u want to put yr husband life back with you in uk, u may start considering that.
and with that step, u can then go further to defend why he changed his name and identity the 1st time during asylum application..

[John]

i just dont know how to strait his personality in home office so that dont be any more problems for us

I do not think that is possible. They already have certain facts in their records, and you cannot simply get them to erase their records.

[smallpie]

john, u are right. its a straight forward reasoning.. he has already claimed a different name and nationality and also finger printed..'that made it worse'.
maybe if they get re-married and they go rep. of ireland to start all over again there, while the EEA national exercise her treaty right over there?
or do u think the record held here by ukba, wil still cum up there?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Well it would be interesting to hear what the husband's exact history was. The world is full of people with dual or triple citizenship, and names that are spelled in different ways. There may well be a legitimate background to the situation.

[Godott]

I am sorry but the man was obviously cheating the UK law, and British are not naive. Many albanians were claiming asylum during 1999 escaping from Albania ( via KOSOVO) to UK borders , and representing themselves as Serbian nationals ( at that time at UK border noone asked them for papers as a proof of nationality as they were '' running '' from Serbian- playing a ''victims'' in order to get the UK settlement) .
So, the UKBA knows exactly who they are dealing with.
It is not easy to get anyone's nationality over the night , so neither Malwinka's partner. And even if he has one ( Serbian) it might be probably forged, and Home Office can check it very easily together with Serbian authorities.
I doubt he provided Home office with Serbian Citizenship, explaining himself as someone who was 'escaping' from Serb in rush so he didnt provide his document as most of them came to uk borders with no documents at all. That is why we call them refugees, they have no time for preparation of documentation. And ofcourse, Home oFfice has checked it all already.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am sorry but the man was obviously cheating the UK law, and British are not naive. Many albanians were claiming asylum during 1999 escaping from Albania ( via KOSOVO) to UK borders , and representing themselves as Serbian nationals ( at that time at UK border noone asked them for papers as a proof of nationality as they were '' running '' from Serbian- playing a ''victims'' in order to get the UK settlement) .
So, the UKBA knows exactly who they are dealing with.
It is not easy to get anyone's nationality over the night , so neither Malwinka's partner. And even if he has one ( Serbian) it might be probably forged, and Home Office can check it very easily together with Serbian authorities.
I doubt he provided Home office with Serbian Citizenship, explaining himself as someone who was 'escaping' from Serb in rush so he didnt provide his document as most of them came to uk borders with no documents at all. That is why we call them refugees, they have no time for preparation of documentation. And ofcourse, Home oFfice has checked it all already.

You use a lot of words that express uncertainty, while claiming that her husband was "obviously cheating the UK law". I think I can assume you must know him personally rather than that you have read the somewhat fragmented description she wrote and then made up the rest based on your extensive experience?

In any case, it would be nice to get more precise details about the husband's history so that it is easier to assess in what way this case might move forward...

[Godott]

I am sorry but the man was obviously cheating the UK law, and British are not naive. Many albanians were claiming asylum during 1999 escaping from Albania ( via KOSOVO) to UK borders , and representing themselves as Serbian nationals ( at that time at UK border noone asked them for papers as a proof of nationality as they were '' running '' from Serbian- playing a ''victims'' in order to get the UK settlement) .
So, the UKBA knows exactly who they are dealing with.
It is not easy to get anyone's nationality over the night , so neither Malwinka's partner. And even if he has one ( Serbian) it might be probably forged, and Home Office can check it very easily together with Serbian authorities.
I doubt he provided Home office with Serbian Citizenship, explaining himself as someone who was 'escaping' from Serb in rush so he didnt provide his document as most of them came to uk borders with no documents at all. That is why we call them refugees, they have no time for preparation of documentation. And ofcourse, Home oFfice has checked it all already.

You use a lot of words that express uncertainty, while claiming that her husband was "obviously cheating the UK law". I think I can assume you must know him personally rather than that you have read the somewhat fragmented description she wrote and then made up the rest based on your extensive experience?

In any case, it would be nice to get more precise details about the husband's history so that it is easier to assess in what way this case might move forward...

Hi. Dont want to have debat with you, but the only thing I want to say is If the man was so clear of records, the Home officer would not make an any issue about his applicaiton. I dont know him personally, ofcourse, but i know many of them ( people from his country) came to UK like he did. And i dont care about this, but all I am saying is logic and analogue.. If his case was so clear Home officer would not make an issue as I said before.
I wish them a luck.
x

[Godott]

MY HUSBAND COME TO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY IN 2002 AND HE CLAIM DIFFRENT NAME AND NATIONALITY THAT TIME. IN HOME OFFICE THEY HAVE HIS FINGER PRINT AS DIFFRENT PERSON BECAUSE HE CLAIM ASYLUM IN 2002 AS SERBIAN NATIONALITY. PLEASE TELL US WHAT WE CAN DO NOW TO CHANGE HIS NAME IN HOME OFFICE FOR THE REAL ONE AND REAL NATIONALITY.

There is no Real or Unreal nationality.. but only legal 1