Hello, I want to apply for indefinite leave to remain..?

[Greenie]

they are assessing the student's eligibility for funding/home fees and therefore may need the parent's passports and other evidence of their financial circumstances.

The parent's passport only proves the parent's identity and citizenship - nothing more. And that is in no way relevant for funding/home fees.

it is relevent to funding and fees because a non-EU family member of an EU national is relying on his EU parent's citizenship and status in the UK to apply for home fees and funding.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

they are assessing the student's eligibility for funding/home fees and therefore may need the parent's passports and other evidence of their financial circumstances.

The parent's passport only proves the parent's identity and citizenship - nothing more. And that is in no way relevant for funding/home fees.

it is relevent to funding and fees because a non-EU family member of an EU national is relying on his EU parent's citizenship and status in the UK to apply for home fees and funding.

The parent's EU passport is not proof of that. In fact EU citizen parents will usually have no UK issued stamps in their passport. And if they recently renewed their passport, they are guaranteed to have nothing UK related in it.

What is proof, in the non-EU passport, is a Residence Card. That is what it is there for! And that is why the OP has this in his passport.

[Greenie]

they are assessing the student's eligibility for funding/home fees and therefore may need the parent's passports and other evidence of their financial circumstances.

The parent's passport only proves the parent's identity and citizenship - nothing more. And that is in no way relevant for funding/home fees.

it is relevent to funding and fees because a non-EU family member of an EU national is relying on his EU parent's citizenship and status in the UK to apply for home fees and funding.

The parent's EU passport is not proof of that. In fact EU citizen parents will usually have no UK issued stamps in their passport. And if they recently renewed their passport, they are guaranteed to have nothing UK related in it.

What is proof, in the non-EU passport, is a Residence Card. That is what it is there for! And that is why the OP has this in his passport.

that is proof of the OP's status and entitlement to be in the UK. it is not proof that he is entitled to student funding to get that, without a permanent residence card, they will expect him to show his father's status in the UK because his rights derive from his father.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

that is proof of the OP's status and entitlement to be in the UK. it is not proof that he is entitled to student funding to get that, without a permanent residence card, they will expect him to show his father's status in the UK because his rights derive from his father.

Do you have any links that describe this, and say they require the passport? It does not make sense, and might be illegal, but that is not new for this area.

You have the same problem for all students in UK universities. They must show that they are allowed to be in the country to study, and that they have been resident in the UK for a particular amount of time. Both parts apply equally to British citizens and to EU citizens and to non-EU family members of EU citizens.

[Greenie]

that is proof of the OP's status and entitlement to be in the UK. it is not proof that he is entitled to student funding to get that, without a permanent residence card, they will expect him to show his father's status in the UK because his rights derive from his father.

Do you have any links that describe this, and say they require the passport? It does not make sense, and might be illegal, but that is not new for this area.

You have the same problem for all students in UK universities. They must show that they are allowed to be in the country to study, and that they have been resident in the UK for a particular amount of time. Both parts apply equally to British citizens and to EU citizens and to non-EU family members of EU citizens.

it's not illegal. the non-EU family member of an EU national who does not have permanent residence is dependent on his EU family member's nationality and status in the UK to qualify for a fee loan or maintenance loan. Therefore they request evidence of the EU nationals identity. The non-EU family member's residence card alone is not sufficient to prove entitlement to student funding.

See the guidance notes at the back of the form

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg ... 194408.pdf

as stated in my earlier post, I think the OP may be refused a maintenance loan because he doesnt have a PR card and his father is not working. I have succeeded before in convincing SFE to fund a student in s similar situation by providing evidence that she had acquired PR but the case was more straightforward as father was also working.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I clearly do not get it. But I will read the PDF. Maybe I need more coffee.

Just one last question: If I am a non-EU family member with a Residence Card, why is it interesting for you (pretend you are the University) to see my parent's/spouse's EU passport or member state ID card? What really does it prove? I guess it proves that we still get along well enough that I can borrow my spouse's/parent's ID card. Anything else?

Remember that the member state ID card has no place for any stamps, and the member state passport may have been recently renewed and have no stamps in it.

[Greenie]

I clearly do not get it. But I will read the PDF. Maybe I need more coffee.

Just one last question: If I am a non-EU family member with a Residence Card, why is it interesting for you (pretend you are the University) to see my parent's/spouse's EU passport or member state ID card? What really does it prove? I guess it proves that we still get along well enough that I can borrow my spouse's/parent's ID card. Anything else?

Firstly it's not the university, it's Student Finance England.

The passport proves the identity of the EU family member whose nationality and status in the UK the student is relying on.

[86ti]

I would think that the passport is only one of the documents that have been asked for. A birth certificate and evidence that the father is either a worker (or whatever category is accepted for the purpose in question) for the period required, or a permanent resident.

If so the procedure makes sense to me and I do not see a problem with it.

[Greenie]

I would think that the passport is only one of the documents that have been asked for. A birth certificate and evidence that the father is either a worker (or whatever category is accepted for the purpose in question) for the period required, or a permanent resident.

If so the procedure makes sense to me and I do not see a problem with it.

neither do I. I think Directive is right he needs a coffee - or maybe a break?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think Directive is right he needs a coffee - or maybe a break?

I agree. Off for a coffee and a swim!

But I must say.... (One last comment before turning this thing off)

It is odd to have to prove anything about the EU family member after the Residence Card is issued. I do not, for instance, have to take my EU family member's passport with me to my new job if I have a Residence Card. And I also do not need to take it with me when I travel out of the UK on my own, for instance to my home country.

It also does nothing to address whether the EU family member is resident in the UK. They certainly do not need to be present in the UK. If the EU family member has PR, then they can be gone from the UK for up to 2 years, even though the Residence Card owner continues to have lawful residence.

[86ti]

The problem is that a residence card only shows the status quo briefly before it was issued and the status is a dependend one. I would argue that an employer faces the very same problem. How can a company be sure that they are still legally employing after a certain period?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The problem is that a residence card only shows the status quo briefly before it was issued and the status is a dependend one. I would argue that an employer faces the very same problem. How can a company be sure that they are still legally employing after a certain period?

But that is the point of the Residence Card. It is so that you prove it once, and then do not have to prove it again and again. So that you do not have to carry (1) proof that your parent is an EU citizen and (2) proof that your parent is working when you start a new job and when you open a bank account and when you travel on your own and ...

And once again, all they are asking for is the passport. That is proof of ID of somebody who is not going to university. That is not proof that the parent is working or otherwise exercising treaty rights. That is not even proof that they are resident in the country.

Can somebody help me put the sunscreen on the back of my neck?

[John]

How can a company be sure that they are still legally employing after a certain period?

Employers thinking of taking on an employee need to, prior to the start of the employment, see either List A document(s), which give the employer "protection" indefinitely, or if the prospective employee has no List A documents, List B document(s), which give "protection" for 12 months.

A Residence Card is a List B document, and accordingly the employer needs to see evidence every 12 months, until the employee can show a List A document.

The term "protection" .... protection from being penalised for employing an illegal worker.

[86ti]

Thanks John. But would be valid evidence after those 12 months?

[John]

If the is still using the same Residence Card, then it is the same Residence Card they would present again to their employer. That would give the employer a further 12 months "protection".

Then when they get confirmation of PR status, that is a List A document so would then give the employer indefinite "protection".

[86ti]

Thanks again. I found the relevant UKBA guidance in the meantime. (There are also a nice picture examples of current immigration documents there).

[Swadesh]

Hello All, But I was getting EMA all this time (3 Years @ College) ? and I thought if you get EMA means you can get the student loan as well.

My Mother has been working in this country for non-stop 9 years , as well as my brother.

Regards
Swadesh

[Greenie]

Hello All, But I was getting EMA all this time (3 Years @ College) ? and I thought if you get EMA means you can get the student loan as well.

My Mother has been working in this country for non-stop 9 years , as well as my brother.

Regards
Swadesh

No, the requirements for EMA are different (a lot more lenient) than the requirements for funding for university. Given that you have been in the UK for 9 years, I would be suprised if you had not acquired permanent residence, however, the fact that you were issue a further 5 year residence card and not permanent residence suggests to me that there may have been a break in your father exercising his treaty rights whilst you were here, or that they were not satisfied that he has exercised them for 5 years since you have been here.

As I have stated earlier, without proof that you have PR, you don't qualify for a maintenance loan (you will qualifiy for a tuition fee loan however), as your father is not a worker. Non EU family members of EU nationals do not qualify for a maintenance loan purely because the EU national is evercising their treaty rights, they only qualify if either 1) they have permanent residence themselves or 2) the relevent EU national is a worker.

What form have you completed to apply for your funding? is it the EU form that I posted a link to earlier? If so then this is a clue that there are only assessing you for the tuition fee loan. If you want to apply for a maintenance loan you need to complete the relevent form/apply online through SFE. I suggest you speak to the university you are going to as they can give you advice on how to apply, and what you might be entitled to.

[Swadesh]

Hello All, But I was getting EMA all this time (3 Years @ College) ? and I thought if you get EMA means you can get the student loan as well.

My Mother has been working in this country for non-stop 9 years , as well as my brother.

Regards
Swadesh

No, the requirements for EMA are different (a lot more lenient) than the requirements for funding for university. Given that you have been in the UK for 9 years, I would be suprised if you had not acquired permanent residence, however, the fact that you were issue a further 5 year residence card and not permanent residence suggests to me that there may have been a break in your father exercising his treaty rights whilst you were here, or that they were not satisfied that he has exercised them for 5 years since you have been here.

As I have stated earlier, without proof that you have PR, you don't qualify for a maintenance loan (you will qualifiy for a tuition fee loan however), as your father is not a worker. Non EU family members of EU nationals do not qualify for a maintenance loan purely because the EU national is evercising their treaty rights, they only qualify if either 1) they have permanent residence themselves or 2) the relevent EU national is a worker.

What form have you completed to apply for your funding? is it the EU form that I posted a link to earlier? If so then this is a clue that there are only assessing you for the tuition fee loan. If you want to apply for a maintenance loan you need to complete the relevent form/apply online through SFE. I suggest you speak to the university you are going to as they can give you advice on how to apply, and what you might be entitled to.

I haven't got the EU form, I used the common form which everyone used in my college from SFE site.

Regards
Swadesh

[Greenie]

Hello All, But I was getting EMA all this time (3 Years @ College) ? and I thought if you get EMA means you can get the student loan as well.

My Mother has been working in this country for non-stop 9 years , as well as my brother.

Regards
Swadesh

No, the requirements for EMA are different (a lot more lenient) than the requirements for funding for university. Given that you have been in the UK for 9 years, I would be suprised if you had not acquired permanent residence, however, the fact that you were issue a further 5 year residence card and not permanent residence suggests to me that there may have been a break in your father exercising his treaty rights whilst you were here, or that they were not satisfied that he has exercised them for 5 years since you have been here.

As I have stated earlier, without proof that you have PR, you don't qualify for a maintenance loan (you will qualifiy for a tuition fee loan however), as your father is not a worker. Non EU family members of EU nationals do not qualify for a maintenance loan purely because the EU national is evercising their treaty rights, they only qualify if either 1) they have permanent residence themselves or 2) the relevent EU national is a worker.

What form have you completed to apply for your funding? is it the EU form that I posted a link to earlier? If so then this is a clue that there are only assessing you for the tuition fee loan. If you want to apply for a maintenance loan you need to complete the relevent form/apply online through SFE. I suggest you speak to the university you are going to as they can give you advice on how to apply, and what you might be entitled to.

I haven't got the EU form, I used the common form which everyone used in my college from SFE site.

Regards
Swadesh

OK. Did you send them your parent's passports with the application or did they request them? If they requested them which team requested it and which address did they ask you to send the documents to?

[Swadesh]

OK. Did you send them your parent's passports with the application or did they request them? If they requested them which team requested it and which address did they ask you to send the documents to?

First time around I sent them the photocopied. Later they sent letter asking for the original passports. The address was same as form.

Somehow, I talked about it yesterday and I got my parents passports back to us today morning.

They didn't send a letter with them, only a CRN number.

Regards
Swadesh

[Greenie]

OK. Did you send them your parent's passports with the application or did they request them? If they requested them which team requested it and which address did they ask you to send the documents to?

First time around I sent them the photocopied. Later they sent letter asking for the original passports. The address was same as form.

Somehow, I talked about it yesterday and I got my parents passports back to us today morning.

They didn't send a letter with them, only a CRN number.

Regards
Swadesh

ok well wait and see what they grant you. If they say you are not entitled to a maintenance loan or grant then seek advice from your university advice service.

[Swadesh]

OK. Did you send them your parent's passports with the application or did they request them? If they requested them which team requested it and which address did they ask you to send the documents to?

First time around I sent them the photocopied. Later they sent letter asking for the original passports. The address was same as form.

Somehow, I talked about it yesterday and I got my parents passports back to us today morning.

They didn't send a letter with them, only a CRN number.

Regards
Swadesh

ok well wait and see what they grant you. If they say you are not entitled to a maintenance loan or grant then seek advice from your university advice service.

Will put updates from SFE in here and thanks for the help.

Regards
Swadesh

[Swadesh]

Hello, the form we filled in 2007 was EEA2 for me, my brother and my mother. However, my dad's form was EEA4.

Regards
Swadesh

[Greenie]

Hello, the form we filled in 2007 was EEA2 for me, my brother and my mother. However, my dad's form was EEA4.

Regards
Swadesh

EEA4 is the form used for permanent residence cards for non european national family members of EEA nationals. It doesn't make sense that your father would complete this form. Are you sure he didn't complete the EEA3 form? Does your father have a permanent residence document/stamp in his passport?

Have you asked your parents why you only applied for a further residence card and not confirmation of permanent residence in 2007?