Entry visa for Non-EEA family member

[jadalasco]

I am a UK citizen and planning to exercise treaty rights in Ireland. I intend to bring my third country national family child residing in Africa to join me as the diective 2004/38/EC covers.

I have now encountered a sitauation with INIS as they are demanding that for my (Child under 18) family member's entry visa to be granted, I would have to be lawfully resident in Ireland. (Their website says this also).

My impression was that I did not need to be in Ireland at the time that the visa was being processed and was fully aware that on the date of her entry into Ireland, I should/would be in the host state(Ireland) for her to join me.

I understand that it might be slightly different if my child was accompanying me as we will then enter the state together but are they (INIS) correct under the directive rules to insist that I be lawfully resident in Ireland and to provide an address that I am staying in Ireland before the entry visa can be granted for her to join me ?

If they are wrong, can anyone point me in the direction of anything legal that states this ( as in regulation/directive/guidelines etc ) and please do not mention SOLVIT as they are hopeless and are generally on the member state's side.

By the way, I am still in the UK at present and while the visa has not been refused, the visa officer is insistent on the address in Ireland and my presence there also.

Thank you for your contributions in advance.

:?

[dalebutt]

@ OP i think the INIS are correct with their request that u must be lawfully resident in Ireland. and I also understand that the requirement is different when you are travelling together with your child. they would only need proof of flight reservations for you both as proof that you are travelling together to Ireland. I hope this helps and maybe other member could help you further, thats just my own understanding on the topic

[86ti]

The visa officer is simply wrong and you are right in your understanding of the Directive. It clearly follows from Article 3(1) that your family member either can accompany you or follow you at any convenient time.

[jadalasco]

@ OP i think the INIS are correct with their request that u must be lawfully resident in Ireland. and I also understand that the requirement is different when you are travelling together with your child. they would only need proof of flight reservations for you both as proof that you are travelling together to Ireland. I hope this helps and maybe other member could help you further, thats just my own understanding on the topic

Flight reservations ? Isn't that clearly against the guidelines that was issued for the better transposition of the directive ?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

jadalasco,

Are you applying through the Irish embassy in London? In general they should know better, but they seem to always be trying to push it!

Just to double check. Is the child biologically your or your husband/wife's child? Do you have a full birth certificate for the child?

[jadalasco]

jadalasco,

Are you applying through the Irish embassy in London? In general they should know better, but they seem to always be trying to push it!

Just to double check. Is the child biologically your or your husband/wife's child? Do you have a full birth certificate for the child?

We provided a full birth cert. with both parents name (mine/wifes) showing.
Generally, when applying on the AVATS system, it directs to the mission that should deal with the application and that was the south african embassy but i believe it has been referred to Dublin.

I was even charged 15 US dollars for posting the application which is a clear breach but i intend to deal with that later as their breaches include my daughter to provide letters from school, copy of mother's passport(Not EU citizen),travel itenary,bank statements, and so on but i obliged as i did not want the visa to be delayed, only putting my foot down when i was sure that they were mocking about.

I have appointments in london but i may have to travel to Ireland in order for the visa to be issued except someone here can point me in the direction of a regulation that clearly states that i do not have to be physically present in Ireland for the visa to be processed/granted !!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So there is good news and bad news from my perspective.

Directive 2004/38/EC clearly covers joining in the normal sense that you are using it.
But the Irish transposition talks about joining where the EU citizen is already legally resident in Ireland (which you are not!).

The amended Irish transposition Directive 2004/38/EC says:

Application and transitional provisions
3. (1) These Regulations shall apply to—
(a) Union citizens,
(b) qualifying family members of Union citizens, who are not themselves Union citizens, and—
(i) who seek to enter the State in the company of those Union citizens in respect of whom they are family members, or
(ii) who seek to join those Union citizens, in respect of whom they are family members, who are lawfully in the State,

What it says: (ii) who seek to join those Union citizens, in respect of whom they are family members, who are lawfully in the State
What it means: (ii) who seek to join those Union citizens, in respect of whom they are family members, who are [implicit: ALREADY] lawfully in the State

If you fight them you will likely get your way in the end. But because it is in their legislation, it may be a longer fight.

What about instead planning that you will enter Ireland with your child? That avoids the issue. You could even route the flight through London and join it there....


The Irish info I have is: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... o-ireland/

[jadalasco]

So there is good news and bad news from my perspective.

Directive 2004/38/EC clearly covers joining in the normal sense that you are using it.
But the Irish transposition talks about joining where the EU citizen is already legally resident in Ireland (which you are not!).

The amended Irish transposition Directive 2004/38/EC says:

Application and transitional provisions
3. (1) These Regulations shall apply to—
(a) Union citizens,
(b) qualifying family members of Union citizens, who are not themselves Union citizens, and—
(i) who seek to enter the State in the company of those Union citizens in respect of whom they are family members, or
(ii) who seek to join those Union citizens, in respect of whom they are family members, who are lawfully in the State,

What it says: (ii) who seek to join those Union citizens, in respect of whom they are family members, who are lawfully in the State
What it means: (ii) who seek to join those Union citizens, in respect of whom they are family members, who are [implicit: ALREADY] lawfully in the State

If you fight them you will likely get your way in the end. But because it is in their legislation, it may be a longer fight.

What about instead planning that you will enter Ireland with your child? That avoids the issue. You could even route the flight through London and join it there....


The Irish info I have is: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... o-ireland/

You are very correct in your observations. I probably will win if i decide to fight but it might be lenghty which i want to avoid .

At this stage, if i decide to enter the state with her, i would need to make another application as the present application is based on her joining me.

The cheek of the visa officer even had the audacity to inform me that they could refuse entry into the state or the visa if they thought the applicant wanted to enter into the UK illegally.

I might have to travel to Ireland then, pheww !!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

What exactly did the embassy say to you? In writing?

Also, what did they want in the school letter?

Have they asked for a visa application fee?

i would need to make another application as the present application is based on her joining me

In what way did you specify that she would be joining you?

[jadalasco]

What exactly did the embassy say to you? In writing?

Also, what did they want in the school letter?

Have they asked for a visa application fee?

In what way did you specify that she would be joining you?

The embassy basically quoted how they had transposed the directive into their own laws and its further amendment, and invited me to consider another application of her accompanying me and this was done in an e-mail sent to me.

As far as the school letter is concerned, it should not matter what they want in it, the directive clearly states that i should not be asked for anything other than identity and family linkage documents, any other documents being asked for would pose an obstruction to free movements.

The fee i referred to earlier was not a visa fee but a charge to post the application to the destination where it would be processed but as the visa is supposed to be free, i should not be charged for anything in relation to the processing of the visa once it is submitted at one of their missions.

I am not sure what you mean by in what way is she joining me other than that i would be in the state and she would then join me. In any case, on their AVATS system, one can only choose whether the family member will be accompanying the EU citizen or joining so the joining is quite simple to understand while filling the application online.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I clearly understand the school letter was optional but I am curious about the content they WANTED.

[jadalasco]

I clearly understand the school letter was optional but I am curious about the content they WANTED.

I guess to show that she is at a school and to have the address of the school as surety that she has a connection with her home country.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I clearly understand the school letter was optional but I am curious about the content they WANTED.

I guess to show that she is at a school and to have the address of the school as surety that she has a connection with her home country.

It is such a joke.

Do you have a target timeframe when you want to move to Ireland with her?

[jadalasco]

I clearly understand the school letter was optional but I am curious about the content they WANTED.

I guess to show that she is at a school and to have the address of the school as surety that she has a connection with her home country.

It is such a joke.

Do you have a target timeframe when you want to move to Ireland with her?

As soon as the visa is issued as there might be a business opportunity for me there.