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Moving to UK, Again

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

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Baadil
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Moving to UK, Again

Post by Baadil » Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:20 pm

Hi,

I am a US citizen and my wife is UK citizen. About 3 years ago, we moved to UK (I got spouse visa) and lived there for 8 months before returning back to the US. Now we are thinking about moving back to UK within a year or so. I will apply for spouse visa again as my previous one has expired. Here are my questions.

1. If I receive spouse visa and go to UK but come back, how often do I have to go back to keep my visa valid? Also, can I show that I am working in ths US and keep my permanent residency in UK?

2. My mom is also a permanent US resident. She is currently living in another country. My father recently passed away and there is no one there to take care of her. should I apply for her UK visa along with my own or shall I request it once I am in UK. She is about 55 years old.

Thank you for any help.

Baadil
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Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:11 pm

Post by Baadil » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:09 am

hmmm, 51 views and no replies and/or comments?

JAJ
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Re: Moving to UK, Again

Post by JAJ » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:25 pm

Baadil wrote: 1. If I receive spouse visa and go to UK but come back, how often do I have to go back to keep my visa valid? Also, can I show that I am working in ths US and keep my permanent residency in UK?

2. My mom is also a permanent US resident. She is currently living in another country. My father recently passed away and there is no one there to take care of her. should I apply for her UK visa along with my own or shall I request it once I am in UK. She is about 55 years old.
Others with greater knowledge of the Immigration Rules may want to comment, but my take on this is:

1. In general, both spouse visa holders and ILR holders are expected to live in the United Kingdom. If you are not going to be living in the UK, why bother getting a visa - you can always visit on your U.S. passport. And if you really want to have dual citizenship, then migrate to the UK as a spouse, live in Britain for 3 years and then become naturalised as a British citizen.

2. Parent migration is not easy. Check http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk
AIUI you'd need to have ILR before you can even think about the option, and she may still be too young at age 55 to qualify.

Also - is she a U.S. citizen or just a green card holder?

Baadil
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:11 pm

Post by Baadil » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:38 pm

Thank you Jaj for your reply.

The main reason I want to get a visa early on is so that I can slowly start my job search before I get there. Lots of jobs require you to have visa prior to applying for the job. Even some recruiters require you to show visa before applying if your current phone/address is outside uk. I will be looking at a director level job so I need to make sure all my ducks are in a row before I start my process.

Both my wife and my mom are US green card holders, not citizens.

As far as looking at the site you recommended, I have looked at it before and to my understanding (which is not much), I should apply for my mom once I am in UK. Here is an quote from the site:
If you are a parent or grandparent under the age of 65, you may qualify if:
you are living in the most exceptional compassionate circumstances
you are completely or mainly financially dependent on children or grandchildren living and settled in the UK
you have no other close relatives in your own country to help you
your children or grandchildren can support you without needing help from public funds, and
your children or grandchildren have enough accommodation, which they alone own or live in, where you can live without needing any help from public funds.
I can probably pass on all of these right now except that I am currently not living in UK and I have no idea about "exceptional compassionate circumstances". I do have my own residence in UK (Flat) but I may have to wait until I buy a house. Am I correct in saying this?

Thank you.

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:56 pm

Baadil wrote: Both my wife and my mom are US green card holders, not citizens.
Before you think further about planning to move to the UK, have either of them given consideration to how easy it is to lose a green card once they leave the U.S. to live elsewhere?

Have they thought about the pros and cons of taking out U.S. citizenship before they leave?

Baadil
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:11 pm

Post by Baadil » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:38 pm

My mom will probably not go for US citizenship but we will defo get citizenship for my wife before we move.

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:51 pm

Baadil wrote:My mom will probably not go for US citizenship
It's her choice of course, but is there any particular reason why she wouldn't want U.S. citizenship? What's her nationality?

She could be left in a difficult position in the UK should you and your wife move back to the U.S. at a later date.

As regards getting her into the UK, you should pay close attention to the term : the most exceptional compassionate circumstances . Others may know more, but to a reasonable person a term like this might extend to a case where a parent was living in a war or famine ravaged country, rather than a person with a U.S. green card.

Also - you'll probably need UK permanent residence (Indefinite Leave to Remain) before you'll be able to sponsor. How long have you been married and have you got children?

If you want to discuss this in more detail, strong recommendation is to get a good lawyer.

Baadil
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Post by Baadil » Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:08 am

Thank you Jaj.

The main reason my mom probably won't go for US citizenship is because you have to live in the US for 4+ year before she can get the citizenship. We are of Pakistani origin. I have a sister living in UK (Citizen) and brother living in Hong Kong (Citizen as well) and my mom would like to visit all her children instead of just live with one.

I understand that the term : the most exceptional compassionate circumstances may not seem to apply to her having US GC but at the same token she has not come here for over 3 years mainly due to illness of my father. Now that he has passed away, there is no one to take care of her over there.

I though you could apply for a relative along with your own visa application if they were going to join you in UK. I have been married to my wife for over 5 years and we have two kids as well. Both of us are working professionals. Even when I was in UK for a year 4 years ago, I worked a fulltime job and have never taken any Govt. assistance in both UK and US.

Your idea of contacting a good lawyer is good. I need to find a lawyer whoe is well versed in UK immigration law and does not cost an arm and a leg. :-) If worst comes to it, I will simply get my mom a 5 year multiple entry visit visa to come live with us as needed in UK.

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:48 am

Baadil wrote:Thank you Jaj.

The main reason my mom probably won't go for US citizenship is because you have to live in the US for 4+ year before she can get the citizenship.
It's 5 years if you're not married to a U.S. citizen. And only time with a green card counts towards the 5 years.
We are of Pakistani origin. I have a sister living in UK (Citizen) and brother living in Hong Kong (Citizen as well)
Out of interest, what do you mean when you say your brother is a citizen in Hong Kong? Since the handover to China in 1997, Hong Kong citizens are usually of an ethnic Chinese background. Did he obtain British nationality in the territory before 1 July 1997?

and my mom would like to visit all her children instead of just live with one.
This is where she needs to be really careful. If she were to take a long vacation in the UK and then Hong Kong, she might have problems getting back to the United States and have nowhere to go other than Pakistan.

If this is a problem for her, then she really needs to plan to get her U.S. citizenship as a high priority (she might lose Pakistan citizenship but would that be a problem?)

On top of that, travel to both the United Kingdom and Hong Kong for vacations would be much easier with an American passport.
I understand that the term : the most exceptional compassionate circumstances may not seem to apply to her having US GC but at the same token she has not come here for over 3 years mainly due to illness of my father. Now that he has passed away, there is no one to take care of her over there.
With respect, it's not really your opinion that matters, but the opinion of an Entry Clearance Officer who may see much "harder" cases every day.
I though you could apply for a relative along with your own visa application if they were going to join you in UK.
Subject to rules about dependency. Get a lawyer!

I have been married to my wife for over 5 years
If you can show you have lived for 4+ years outside the United Kingdom you should be able to get Indefinite Leave to Enter, and be a UK permanent resident immediately.

If you become naturalised British after 3 years you still keep your U.S. citizenship. But you must continue to file for U.S. tax when living in Britain, even if you don't need to pay much (or anything).

and we have two kids as well.
How did your wife get her British citizenship? If she was born or naturalised in the United Kingdom, then your children are already British citizens by descent. Just get British passports for them at the British Embassy in Washington DC.

And it's strongly recommended to get British-style birth certificates for them, even though there are reports that front-line Embassy staff are telling people "not to bother" with this. The British-style birth cert can save a lot of hassle later on.


If worst comes to it, I will simply get my mom a 5 year multiple entry visit visa to come live with us as needed in UK.
But she can't live in the United Kingdom as a tourist.

Baadil
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Post by Baadil » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:59 am

JAJ wrote:
Baadil wrote:Thank you Jaj.

The main reason my mom probably won't go for US citizenship is because you have to live in the US for 4+ year before she can get the citizenship.
It's 5 years if you're not married to a U.S. citizen. And only time with a green card counts towards the 5 years.

*** An applicant is eligible to file if, immediately preceding the filing of the application, he or she:
has been lawfully admitted for permanent residence (see preceding section); has resided continuously as a lawful permanent resident in the U.S. for at least 5 years prior to filing with no single absence from the United States of more than one year;


This is not the case with her. She's been outside the country much longer and will need to stay here for at least 3 more years to get her citizenship.
We are of Pakistani origin. I have a sister living in UK (Citizen) and brother living in Hong Kong (Citizen as well)
Out of interest, what do you mean when you say your brother is a citizen in Hong Kong? Since the handover to China in 1997, Hong Kong citizens are usually of an ethnic Chinese background. Did he obtain British nationality in the territory before 1 July 1997?

*** He's been in HK since 1994 and is married to a chinese girl and has a kid. I think he's got some type of british passport that is for HK nationals/ Pre 1997? I am not really sure how all that works.
and my mom would like to visit all her children instead of just live with one.
This is where she needs to be really careful. If she were to take a long vacation in the UK and then Hong Kong, she might have problems getting back to the United States and have nowhere to go other than Pakistan.

If this is a problem for her, then she really needs to plan to get her U.S. citizenship as a high priority (she might lose Pakistan citizenship but would that be a problem?)

On top of that, travel to both the United Kingdom and Hong Kong for vacations would be much easier with an American passport.

*** Pakistan has dual nationality with US. Once we move to UK, we do not plan on moving back. But if we have to we can always take a trip every 6 months or so for visit to keep GC's alive.
I understand that the term : the most exceptional compassionate circumstances may not seem to apply to her having US GC but at the same token she has not come here for over 3 years mainly due to illness of my father. Now that he has passed away, there is no one to take care of her over there.
With respect, it's not really your opinion that matters, but the opinion of an Entry Clearance Officer who may see much "harder" cases every day.

*** I agree. It is not my opinion that counts but I guess I could at least try to make a case.
I though you could apply for a relative along with your own visa application if they were going to join you in UK.
Subject to rules about dependency. Get a lawyer!

*** Agreed
I have been married to my wife for over 5 years
If you can show you have lived for 4+ years outside the United Kingdom you should be able to get Indefinite Leave to Enter, and be a UK permanent resident immediately.

If you become naturalised British after 3 years you still keep your U.S. citizenship. But you must continue to file for U.S. tax when living in Britain, even if you don't need to pay much (or anything).

*** Do I need to do something special when applying? When I apply (in a few months) we will be living out of the UK for over 4 years. I agree with you on keep filing taxes. It doesn't cost much and you stay up to date with uncle sam.
and we have two kids as well.
How did your wife get her British citizenship? If she was born or naturalised in the United Kingdom, then your children are already British citizens by descent. Just get British passports for them at the British Embassy in Washington DC.

And it's strongly recommended to get British-style birth certificates for them, even though there are reports that front-line Embassy staff are telling people "not to bother" with this. The British-style birth cert can save a lot of hassle later on.

*** My wife is a Brit by birth. My first child was born in UK so he has UK birth certificate. I also got him registered with US embassy so he now has birth registration with UK, US and Pakistan. He also carries all three passports. My daughter was born here in the US but she also has all three registrations as well as passports.
If worst comes to it, I will simply get my mom a 5 year multiple entry visit visa to come live with us as needed in UK.
But she can't live in the United Kingdom as a tourist.


***True, but at each entry they give you 6 months. If she wants to stay longer than 6 months at a time, we can simply take a trip to spain or somewhere close? What do you think, bad plan?

ppron747
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Post by ppron747 » Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:22 am

Baadil wrote:
JAJ wrote: But she can't live in the United Kingdom as a tourist.
Baadil wrote: ***True, but at each entry they give you 6 months. If she wants to stay longer than 6 months at a time, we can simply take a trip to spain or somewhere close? What do you think, bad plan?
Yes, frankly.
Immigration officers will spot that sort of thing a mile off.
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
Want a 2nd opinion? One will be along shortly....

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:25 am

Baadil wrote:
*** He's been in HK since 1994 and is married to a chinese girl and has a kid. I think he's got some type of british passport that is for HK nationals/ Pre 1997? I am not really sure how all that works.
If he only arrived in HK in 1994 then I cannot see how he could have qualified for naturalisation as a British Dependent Territories citizen in Hong Kong before 1 July 1997. So based on the facts you've given, it's hard to see how he could hold a British passport, as opposed to a HK permanent identity card.

But if we have to we can always take a trip every 6 months or so for visit to keep GC's alive.
If you ask around on U.S. immigration forums, you'll probably find out that just visiting the U.S. won't do to keep a GC alive, sorry.

***True, but at each entry they give you 6 months. If she wants to stay longer than 6 months at a time, we can simply take a trip to spain or somewhere close? What do you think, bad plan?
Very bad plan. Sooner or later immigration officers will put her on a plane to Pakistan (especially if her GC is gone by then).

jes2jes
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Post by jes2jes » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:14 pm

I guess the OP has to make a decision between the US and the UK. As it stands, she has a better chance of getting a US citizenship than getting a UK one.

Baadil, take the advise since it is the best you can get for 'free' and let your mom keep her GC until she can get her US ppt. You guys can be visiting her in the US and vice versa until this purpose is achieved.

If you do not understand then get a lawyer.
Praise The Lord!!!!

Baadil
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Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:11 pm

Post by Baadil » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:36 pm

Thank you everyone for your help.
jes2jes wrote:I guess the OP has to make a decision between the US and the UK. As it stands, she has a better chance of getting a US citizenship than getting a UK one.

Baadil, take the advise since it is the best you can get for 'free' and let your mom keep her GC until she can get her US ppt. You guys can be visiting her in the US and vice versa until this purpose is achieved.

If you do not understand then get a lawyer.

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