2 year family Visa refused, please help

[matt_the_drummer]

The Decision

I recognise that family visits are important. I must assess the information you have provided about yourself separately from your sponsors part of your application. It is your responsibility to satisfy me that your circumstances here are such that if given leave to enter you will comply with all the conditions attached to such leave that you will leave the UK on completion of the proposed visit but for the following reasons you have not done that.

You have stated at section 12 of your visa application form that you intend to stay in the UK for less than 2 years. At section 13 and 14 of the same visa application form you have given the dates that you intend to travel as: 12 Sep 2011 to 28 Dec 2012. In light of the above I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry as a general visitor for a limited period, not exceeding 6 months as required by paragraph 41 (i) of HC 395.

It is acknowledged that you have travelled to the UK on two occasions to visit your family – you stayed for 4 months in 2009-10 and you recently travelled from 12 Jan 2011 to 14 June 2011. You are now seeking a visit of between 1 and 2 years. You have provided little to evidence your circumstances in the Philippines. You are travelling with your only minor child. You are unemployed. You state that you are supported by your son overseas but you have not provided any evidence of your sons employment of support of you. You intend to spend a significant lengthy period in the UK. I consider that you have failed to show sufficiently strong ties to the Philippines. On the balance of probabilities, I am therefore not satisfied that you are a genuine visitor or that you will leave the UK on completion of your proposed visit. 41(i)(ii).

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet all the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the UK immigration rules.

[matt_the_drummer]

The letter says we have the right to appeal. It also says "...it may be possible to resolve the points at issue without an appeal hearing".

We are going to appeal, and I guess we need to address each single issue in the refusal within the Grounds Of Appeal section (on form IAFT-2).

In the past we have sent my mum-in-laws deeds to their house to prove that she/husband own a house in Phil, but we didnt this time so will add this to our appeal. Her husband (my dad-in-law) is also staying in Phil, so we can state this.

I guess the big issue is we stated that our intended dates of travel were "12 Sep 2011 to 28 Dec 2012" which is beyond the six month limit. We know now this was stupid (we didnt know about the 6-month-rule) so we shall change this to a period of 6 months. But will they accept this now?

Will it be quicker to process the appeal in Phil, or in the UK? Hoping it will be possible to resolve without a hearing, whats the chances of that?

[vinny]

See also Visitors Guidance.

Normally, General and Family visitors are not permitted to spend more than six months in the UK.

I don't see how an appeal can be won.

[matt_the_drummer]

See also Visitors Guidance. Normally, General and Family visitors are not permitted to spend more than six months in the UK.

If we change the dates to 6 months, and state this on our appeal, will they be satisfied?

[vinny]

The intention prior to/at the time of the refusal decision was to stay longer than six months. Therefore, the refusal was correct. I believe that an appeal determination would just confirm the correctness of the refusal.

[matt_the_drummer]

The intention prior to/at the time of the refusal decision was to stay longer than six months. Therefore, the refusal was correct. I believe that the appeal determination would just confirm the correctness of the refusal.

Its a simple error on our part. They wont reconsider?

If we binned the appeal and applied for a 6-month visa next week, would this refusal affect that outcome?

[vinny]

You would have show that 41 is satisfied.

[matt_the_drummer]

You would have show that 41 is satisfied.

Is that for our appeal? If so the appeal is not beyond hope?

[Lucapooka]

You are now seeking a visit of between 1 and 2 years.

I'm confused by this comment as, even with a long-term visit visa of 2, 5 or 10 years, the traveller is still only permitted to remain for 6 months out of 12.

[matt_the_drummer]

You are now seeking a visit of between 1 and 2 years.

I'm confused by this comment as, even with a long-term visit visa of 2, 5 or 10 years, the traveller is still only permitted to remain for 6 months out of 12.

Its because on our original application we stated our dates of travel were "12 Sep 2011 to 28 Dec 2012".

We didnt know about the 6-month rule at the time.

Its an easy fix for us for our mum to visit for 6months, and then go back to Phil for another 6 months. Surely we can put that in our appeal and it be successfull?

[Lucapooka]

Okay, but in that case you've dug quite a big hole for yourself! You've come right out and confirmed you intend to stay much longer than the periods permitted by this type of visa. Really, you should forget appealing and simply re-apply at about the same time that an appeal decision would be upholding the original decision; that's in about six months from now.

[matt_the_drummer]

Okay, but in that case you've dug quite a big hole for yourself! You've come right out and confirmed you intend to stay much longer than the periods permitted by this type of visa. Really, you should forget appealing and simply re-apply at about the same time that an appeal decision would be upholding the original decision; that's in about six months from now.

That was our original intention, but now know about the 6-month rule we dont want to break the rules and jepordise future visits by our mum/dad. We are happy to re-plan and them visit for 6 months. Are the immigration service not interested in this? Its obvious we are genuine from our old visa applications.

What if we made a new 6-month application for our dad, would we have to notify this refusal on the visa application? Would it affect his application?

[matt_the_drummer]

Where is it best to appeal? If we sent our appeal to the Philippines would it get processed faster?

[matt_the_drummer]

Okay, but in that case you've dug quite a big hole for yourself! You've come right out and confirmed you intend to stay much longer than the periods permitted by this type of visa. Really, you should forget appealing and simply re-apply at about the same time that an appeal decision would be upholding the original decision; that's in about six months from now.

Would it really take 6 months?

Why not re-apply now for a 6 month visa?

[Lucapooka]

Why not re-apply now for a 6 month visa?

Because they have already spent a good part of last year and the first six months of this year in the UK. They can, or course, try but it would likely be refused. Did you not read any of the comments written above?

[matt_the_drummer]

Why not re-apply now for a 6 month visa?

Because they have already spent the first six months of this year in the UK. They can, or course, try but it would likely be refused. Did you not read any of the comments written above?

Yes I did read your comments, and thank you for your help.

However the fact they spent the first 6 months of the year here wasnt mentioned in the decision. Are they likely to holding this in reserve for our appeal/re-application?

[Lucapooka]

However the fact they spent the first 6 months of the year here wasnt mentioned in the decision.

Really, so what's this?

It is acknowledged that you have travelled to the UK on two occasions to visit your family – you stayed for 4 months in 2009-10 and you recently travelled from 12 Jan 2011 to 14 June 2011. You are now seeking a visit of between 1 and 2 years.

[matt_the_drummer]

However the fact they spent the first 6 months of the year here wasnt mentioned in the decision.

Really, so what's this?

It is acknowledged that you have travelled to the UK on two occasions to visit your family – you stayed for 4 months in 2009-10 and you recently travelled from 12 Jan 2011 to 14 June 2011. You are now seeking a visit of between 1 and 2 years.

I thought this was brownie-points. They have visited twice and returned home within 6 months, hence we are genuine.

[Lucapooka]

You don't seem to grasp the core of the issue. Visitors can't effectively live in the UK but breaking up their residence with short trips outside. They recently spent six months in the UK and now wish to return for another extended period. Why? No particular reason. It's simply not permitted to do this.

People who are not visa nationals can sometines dodge detection at the border and enjoy long periods in the UK, but visa nationals who repeatedly apply for another visa soon after a previous visa expires (and was used for the full extent of its validity) are screened out.

However, as previously stated, you can try a new application and it's not expensive. Luck may smile on you.

[matt_the_drummer]

Update Happy days

Please be informed that the decision to refuse your application for entry clearance has been reviewed by an Entry Clearance Manager and has been overturned. Please submit your passport so that an Entry Clearance Officer can consider your application further.

Visa granted!

So not a lost case after all...