Does unpaid work count as 'economic activity' ?

[cat_reversing]

I am a UK citizen, husband non eu. with regards to exercising my treaty rights- if i go to greece for example and do unpaid work in exchange for board and lodgings does this count as 'economic activity'. I know it counts as work and my husband would have to get a national visa if he wanted to work but does it count the other way round, can i use it to show i've been working and therefore exercising my rights even if i don't get paid or pay tax?

[newbieholland]

I am a UK citizen, husband non eu. with regards to exercising my treaty rights- if i go to greece for example and do unpaid work in exchange for board and lodgings does this count as 'economic activity'. I know it counts as work and my husband would have to get a national visa if he wanted to work but does it count the other way round, can i use it to show i've been working and therefore exercising my rights even if i don't get paid or pay tax?

Unfortunately the answer is NO. You can find more details here-
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header14
The British citizen is residing in an EEA Member State as a worker or self-employed person or was doing so before returning to the UK.
As per the UK BA unpaid work is not a qualifier for Surinder singh. The work has to involve some kind of fiancial remuneration.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am a UK citizen, husband non eu. with regards to exercising my treaty rights- if i go to greece for example and do unpaid work in exchange for board and lodgings does this count as 'economic activity'. I know it counts as work and my husband would have to get a national visa if he wanted to work but does it count the other way round, can i use it to show i've been working and therefore exercising my rights even if i don't get paid or pay tax?

You say "in exchange for". That sound very much like you are being renumerated for your work. They are giving you a place to live and food. You are working? And is it both you and your husband who will be living there and getting room and board?

Not paying tax is not much of an issue. Lots of jobs would pay no tax even if worked only 10 hours per week.

Why can they not simply pay you? And then you pay them for room and board? For example...

[cat_reversing]

I am a UK citizen, husband non eu. with regards to exercising my treaty rights- if i go to greece for example and do unpaid work in exchange for board and lodgings does this count as 'economic activity'. I know it counts as work and my husband would have to get a national visa if he wanted to work but does it count the other way round, can i use it to show i've been working and therefore exercising my rights even if i don't get paid or pay tax?

You say "in exchange for". That sound very much like you are being renumerated for your work. They are giving you a place to live and food. You are working? And is it both you and your husband who will be living there and getting room and board?

Not paying tax is not much of an issue. Lots of jobs would pay no tax even if worked only 10 hours per week.

Why can they not simply pay you? And then you pay them for room and board? For example...

it's something a friend recommended as finding paid work in greece for example won't be easy. there's a website where people who have smallholdings/farms need help and so you work 20-25 hours doing whatever needs doing and they provide food and give you a place to stay in exchange. i found something saying the term for this would be 'quid pro quo'. i've looked for definition of worker in eu community law but apart from the clear cut you-work-you-get-paid or you worked but now can't or are retired etc there isn't anything about this kind of work. As i said if my husband were to do it he would need a visa which he could work on as we are getting something in return, so why would it not work the other way round?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

it's something a friend recommended as finding paid work in greece for example won't be easy. there's a website where people who have smallholdings/farms need help and so you work 20-25 hours doing whatever needs doing and they provide food and give you a place to stay in exchange. i found something saying the term for this would be 'quid pro quo'. i've looked for definition of worker in eu community law but apart from the clear cut you-work-you-get-paid or you worked but now can't or are retired etc there isn't anything about this kind of work. As i said if my husband were to do it he would need a visa which he could work on as we are getting something in return, so why would it not work the other way round?

I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

[cat_reversing]

if he needs a visa because it's classed as work, because we are getting something in return for what we do, why is it not classed as work for the purposes of economic activity in relation to exercising treaty rights?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Who exactly told you he needed a visa? What kind of visa did they propose that he needed?

[cat_reversing]

ok, so my husband is non eu and lives outside eu, i am uk citizen. At the moment he can't come to uk, an appeal is in progress. if he wants to work in eu he needs a national visa from the country we plan to be in e.g greece/spain etc, as you can't work on a short term type c schengen visa, right so far?. (i believe that working also includes unpaid work or where you get something in excahnge for the work). None of this was my question, which is - if i do unpaid work in exchange for board and lodgings does this count as economic activity for the purposes of exercising my treaty rights to allow us to apply to come back to the uk together under surinder singh? i agree with your original reply about board and lodgings maybe being seen as renumeration, 'quid pro quo'.
Thank you for your time to discus this matter.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

ok, so my husband is non eu and lives outside eu, i am uk citizen. At the moment he can't come to uk, an appeal is in progress. if he wants to work in eu he needs a national visa from the country we plan to be in e.g greece/spain etc, as you can't work on a short term type c schengen visa, right so far?.

Wrong.

If you move to Germany, for example, then it should be pretty clear that from the moment the plane lands that you (the EU) have the right to IMMEDIATELY work. You do not need to ask anyone's permission.

You are immediately resident in Germany, from the moment you arrive.

So what about your spouse?

Article 23 - Related rights

Irrespective of nationality, the family members of a Union citizen who have the right of residence or the right of permanent residence in a Member State shall be entitled to take up employment or self-employment there.

I think it is very clear your husband can work as well.

Does it matter that he has "only" a Schengen visa? Absolutely not! The visa is only relevant for the initial entry. Once the husband has entered, they are then "resident".

He could even have entered "illegally" into Schengen. That illegal entry itself might be in a minor and proportional way be punishable. But it would not remove his right to live with you and work, so long as you are legally resident in Germany

[cat_reversing]

ok, so to clarify, if he gets type c schengen visa as my spouse and we meet up in and then live in a schengen country together we can both legally work.
And if we wanted to live and work there longer than 3 months, having entered on this visa what would we have to do?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

ok, so to clarify, if he gets type c schengen visa as my spouse and we meet up in and then live in a schengen country together we can both legally work.

And if we wanted to live and work there longer than 3 months, having entered on this visa what would we have to do?

He has a right to work. In some countries it might more or less difficult to PROVE that to a prospective employer.

As soon as you (the EU) are working or self employed or self-sufficient or.... then your husband needs to apply for a Residence Card.

Can I ask what type of UK application you did earlier that was turned down?

[cat_reversing]

Thanks for the response and taking the time to help me.
please see my previous thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... highlight=