In-country change of employment

[Pandagon]

Hi guys,

Could you please kindly enlighten on the following in-country change of employer situation:

1. Employment start date on new CoS is 2-Jan-2012.

2. Notice period at current employer is 1 month.

3. Tier 2 in-country application made in Early Nov, expecting receive approval by Early Dec (4-5 weeks), then can resign from current job (surely nobody will resign from their current job until their new Tier 2 is approved, or risk loosing both jobs or no income) and serving 1 month notice (Early Dec - Early Jan), then ready to start with new employer in Early Jan.

4. However, UKBA delayed processing time (due to workload or strike) and approval only received in Early Jan (1 month delay - which is originally budgeted to be used as the Notice period). And the start date on FLR is Early Jan as stated on the CoS.

5. Now you still have to give and serve 1 month notice period from Early Jan (assume you resign immediately) at current job, which means you can not start new job until Early Feb. However, the new FLR is valid from Early Jan as stated on the CoS.

WHAT HAPPENS THEN? No employer is going to let you leave with a few days of notice. And you can't resign without knowing whether your new FLR application is successful, any the budgeted/planned 1 month notice period (Early Dec - Early Jan) is eaten up by UKBA's delay.

UKBA can take up to 14 weeks to decide an application in 5% cases (but surely they can't expect everyone to plan for the worst case scenario, but what happens to those who do experience the worst case scenario)?

Without receiving new tier 2 FLR approval, nobody would finalise their resignation with their current job. However, if UKBA caused delay and the employee has to serve his/her contracted notice, then he/she will have no choice but to start later than the date stated on the new CoS/FLR and remain working for their previous employer in the meantime until served the full notice.

WHAT'S YOUR VERDICT? Please advise as you can see this is a not an unlikely situation.

-------------------------------------

OR CONSIDER A SIMPLER BUT EQUALLY LIKELY CASE:

1. Assume now is 1st Nov, and you submitted the application today.

2. Your employer expected the application would be approved in 4-5 weeks, and stated on CoS your start date is 15 Dec.

3. However, UKBA delayed, and your application was only approved on 30 Dec (8 weeks).

Now, what would be the 'valid from' date (also your start date) of your new FLR? 30 Dec or 15 Dec?

In either case, does that mean you have to leave your current/old employer the next morning??!!

Surely no fool would have resigned from their old employer without knowing if their new FLR is successful, and how can UKBA expect everyone to move to new employer and cease employment with old employer as soon their new FLRs arrive on their door step??

That's just totally impractical!!!

[Pandagon]

you cant make ANY change to COS dates.

if you can't serve full notice period, then discuss it with ur employer to come to amicable solution.

you must not work for any other employer if your app is approved and you are supposed to start working for another employer.

telll your employer, you and they will be breaching immig laws if they force you to work for them

worst case scenario, some sort of financial compensation should be made to your company, either by yourself or your new employer on your behalf

Hi Arsenal, could you please kindly reply to my query above? Thank you!

[arsenal49]

you cant make ANY change to COS dates.

if you can't serve full notice period, then discuss it with ur employer to come to amicable solution.

you must not work for any other employer if your app is approved and you are supposed to start working for another employer.

telll your employer, you and they will be breaching immig laws if they force you to work for them

worst case scenario, some sort of financial compensation should be made to your company, either by yourself or your new employer on your behalf

Hi Arsenal, could you please kindly reply to my query above? Thank you!

im not qualified to make any statements on this topic... best leave it to the pros. i'll be closely monitoring the thread!

[DMKA]

Hi,

This time of the year particularly for Tier-2 there is huge delay, particularly Biometric invitation letter. And this has caused problems for many Tier-2 applicant as you one. UKBA is unlikely to think in the way we think and the problems we face. But, by rules as soon as you get your new visa from new COS, by any chance you can't work for your current employer full time from the starting date of COS or Visa which is the earliest. UKBA won't take in to the account about your situation of leaving job noticing one month ahead. The whole things will be between you and your current employer--how your employer deal with you if can't notice one month prior. However, your current employer must not be able to keep you in current job by law beyond the date of new COS. You need to know what legal action your employer might take if you fail to leave current job without one month prior notice. You need to prepare about that or alternatively, you can notice your employer in time taking the risk--oviously, depending on which one is much comfortable for you to deal with

[Pandagon]

Hi,

This time of the year particularly for Tier-2 there is huge delay, particularly Biometric invitation letter. And this has caused problems for many Tier-2 applicant as you one. UKBA is unlikely to think in the way we think and the problems we face. But, by rules as soon as you get your new visa from new COS, by any chance you can't work for your current employer full time from the starting date of COS or Visa which is the earliest. UKBA won't take in to the account about your situation of leaving job noticing one month ahead. The whole things will be between you and your current employer--how your employer deal with you if can't notice one month prior.

Thanks DMKA.

Apologies but can you see the following likelihood?

1) Assume the CoS says your start date at your new employer is 2-Jan-2012, which will also likely be the new FLR/BRP "valid from" date.

2) Delay on UKBA's side meant you only received your approval letter on 10-Jan-2012, but the "valid from" date on your new FLR/BRP is 2nd-Jan-2012 as on the CoS.

3) Without knowing whether your new tier 2 FLR application is successful or not, no one would have resigned from their current job. Meaning that even if you leave your old employer as soon as you are made aware of the decision (on 10-Jan-2012), you would still be working for your old employer between 2-Jan and 10-Jan.

Which by your logic, is illegal? Or do UKBA basically expect everyone to have already resigned between the time an application is made and the time their decision is communicated to the applicant? Otheriwse, I can't see how anyone can avoid 'breaches'.

I ain't gonna risk it, I'm gonna call Croydon Public Enquiry Office to ask specifically and also speak to the Immigration team at my new employer to find out how I should handle the situation.

Will let you guys know as soon as I find out!!

However, your current employer must not be able to keep you in current job by law beyond the date of new COS. You need to know what legal action your employer might take if you fail to leave current job without one month prior notice.

I am sure the last thing any employer would want is a LEGAL ACTION, either triggered or self initiated! Especially for lower ranking employees. If you work in the big corporate world, you know how taboo-ed this expression is. So I crossed my fingers on that already.

Worst would be negotiating and losing a few weeks of pay, which I am more than happy to accept. Will speak to the Immigration team at my current employer as well to find out how both parties should best approach this to avoid breaches.

Once again, will let you guys know asap!!

[arsenal49]

3) Without knowing whether your new tier 2 FLR application is successful or not, no one would have resigned from their current job. Meaning that even if you leave your old employer as soon as you are made aware of the decision (on 10-Jan-2012), you would still be working for your old employer between 2-Jan and 10-Jan.

Which by your logic, is illegal? Or do UKBA basically expect everyone to have already resigned between the time an application is made and the time their decision is communicated to the applicant? Otheriwse, I can't see how anyone can avoid 'breaches'.

UKBA dont give a sh*t about applicant and current employer's relationship! as its not an "immigration" issue, if you know what i mean.

Tier 2 COS start date is the important date to remember!... that determines when you must STOP working for current employer, at the latest. Full stop.

UKBA's advice is that you must NOT start working for new employer UNTIL you have received permission from UKBA. Going by that logic, it implies that you are free to work for your current employer till the date you are notified by UKBA's decision... Just try to keep the record of the date of receipt of docs from UKBA, just in case...

[Pandagon]

3) Without knowing whether your new tier 2 FLR application is successful or not, no one would have resigned from their current job. Meaning that even if you leave your old employer as soon as you are made aware of the decision (on 10-Jan-2012), you would still be working for your old employer between 2-Jan and 10-Jan.

Which by your logic, is illegal? Or do UKBA basically expect everyone to have already resigned between the time an application is made and the time their decision is communicated to the applicant? Otheriwse, I can't see how anyone can avoid 'breaches'.

UKBA dont give a sh*t about applicant and current employer's relationship! as its not an "immigration" issue, if you know what i mean.

Tier 2 COS start date is the important date to remember!... that determines when you must STOP working for current employer, at the latest. Full stop.

UKBA's advice is that you must NOT start working for new employer UNTIL you have received permission from UKBA. Going by that logic, it implies that you are free to work for your current employer till the date you are notified by UKBA's decision... Just try to keep the record of the date of receipt of docs from UKBA, just in case...

Hi Everyone, Just to give you an update.

I've spoken to 2 officers at the Croydon PEO on the phone. Here are the (conflicting!) answers I've got:

1st person I talked to - a lady told me I can work for my old/current employer until my BRP is received, ie, the start date on COS can be superceded by the actual BRP issue date.

2nd person I talked to - a guy of clearly african decent (thick nigerian accent) told me I can give notice to my old/current employer after I receive my BRP and continue working for the company until the end of my contracted notice, then join my new employer. (Similar to what my new employer told me, but with additional information, see below).

I know right? They themselves are neither knowledgeable nor consistent enough to advise, just like in my previous experience dealing with them. Both pieces of advice contradict with what it says in the "Guidance Notes", ie, "You can continue working for your current employer until the start date on the COS." - These notes can be pretty rubbish and misleading as well sometimes.

Now here is what the HR Immigration officer at my new employer told me:

I should not resign from my old employer until my approval letter is received, once I receive my approval letter I should hand in my resignation notice and find out my last day at my old employer.

Once I know that, I should inform my new employer and we will arrange to have the day after my last day at my old employer as the official/final start date at my new employer (the one on COS is proposed, not set in the stone), then my new employer will update my final/actual start date on the Sponsors Management System (The same system that produces COS).

This effectively communicates my actual start date to the UKBA through the online Sponsors Management System and my BRP's actual "valid from" date is changed to my actual start date on UKBA's record, also means that my old visa will not be superceded and will stay valid until my last day at my old employer (ie, the last day of my notice period).

Got it? So after all, UKBA has built in processes to handle situations like this! Now I just need to wait for my Approval letter and then resign!!

[i.atnet]

3) Without knowing whether your new tier 2 FLR application is successful or not, no one would have resigned from their current job. Meaning that even if you leave your old employer as soon as you are made aware of the decision (on 10-Jan-2012), you would still be working for your old employer between 2-Jan and 10-Jan.

Which by your logic, is illegal? Or do UKBA basically expect everyone to have already resigned between the time an application is made and the time their decision is communicated to the applicant? Otheriwse, I can't see how anyone can avoid 'breaches'.

UKBA dont give a sh*t about applicant and current employer's relationship! as its not an "immigration" issue, if you know what i mean.

Tier 2 COS start date is the important date to remember!... that determines when you must STOP working for current employer, at the latest. Full stop.

UKBA's advice is that you must NOT start working for new employer UNTIL you have received permission from UKBA. Going by that logic, it implies that you are free to work for your current employer till the date you are notified by UKBA's decision... Just try to keep the record of the date of receipt of docs from UKBA, just in case...

Hi Everyone, Just to give you an update.

I've spoken to 2 officers at the Croydon PEO on the phone. Here are the (conflicting!) answers I've got:

1st person I talked to - a lady told me I can work for my old/current employer until my BRP is received, ie, the start date on COS can be superceded by the actual BRP issue date.

2nd person I talked to - a guy of clearly african decent (thick nigerian accent) told me I can give notice to my old/current employer after I receive my BRP and continue working for the company until the end of my contracted notice, then join my new employer. (Similar to what my new employer told me, but with additional information, see below).

I know right? They themselves are neither knowledgeable nor consistent enough to advise, just like in my previous experience dealing them. Both pieces of advice contradict with what it says in the "Guidance Notes", ie, "You can continue working for your current employer until the start date on the COS." - These notes can be pretty rubbish and misleading as well sometimes.

Now here is what the HR Immigration officer at my new employer (one of the Big 4 accountancy firms) told me:

I should not resign from my old employer until my approval letter is received, once I receive my approval letter I should hand in my resignation notice and find out my last day at my old employer.

Once I know that, I should inform my new employer and we will arrange to have the day after my last day at my old employer as the official/final start date at my new employer (the one on COS is proposed, not set in the stone), then my new employer will update my final/actual start date on the Sponsors Management System (The same system that produces COS).

This effectively communicates my actual start date to the UKBA through the online Sponsors Management System and my BRP's actual "valid from" date is changed to my actual start date on UKBA's record, also means that my old visa will not be superceded and will stay valid until my last day at my old employer (ie, the last day of my notice period).

Got it? So after all, UKBA has built in processes to handle situations like this! Now I just need to wait for my Approval letter and then resign!!

Dear Pandagon,

Many thanks for the update. I am in an exactly similar position like you. I have applied for Tier2 general on 21st Oct. and still waiting for the decision. The start date on my COS is 3rd Jan and I have to serve 1 month notice period with my current employer as well!

With reference to the information you have got from HR Immigration officer at your new employer ,they must have assumed that UKBA will send the approval letter and documents first and BRP later (may be 1-2 week later? )
Then only it is possible to change the date on the COS and then they can amend the BRP and send it to us with correct/final date.

If UKBA sends BRP first then how we can change the start date on the cOS?

[Pandagon]

Dear Pandagon,

Many thanks for the update. I am in an exactly similar position like you. I have applied for Tier2 general on 21st Oct. and still waiting for the decision. The start date on my COS is 3rd Jan and I have to serve 1 month notice period with my current employer as well!

With reference to the information you have got from HR Immigration officer at your new employer ,they must have assumed that UKBA will send the approval letter and documents first and BRP later (may be 1-2 week later? )
Then only it is possible to change the date on the COS system and then they can amend the BRP and send it to us with correct/final date.

If UKBA sends BRP first then how we can change the start date on the cOS?

You are welcome i.atnet.

I see your logic, but my hunch is that even if there's an ample 2 week gap between the receipt of approval letter (when your employer inform UKBA of your updated start date) and the issue of BRP, that would still be too short a notice for the slow bunch at UKBA to change the start date on your to-be-issued BRP.

The point my new employer made is that I resign when UKBA inform me of my positive application result. It does not matter if I receive Approval letter or BRP first/together. The gist is, as long as your new employer keeps UKBA informed of your actual start date there, you can continue working for your old employer.

You need to let your new employer know your actual plausible start date as soon as you received the decision (approval letter or BRP) and after finding out when your old/current employer can actually let you go (your last day on notice). So that the new employer can inform/update UKBA of your finalised start date which will supercede/replace the the original proposed start date on the COS/BRP via their Sponsors Management System (UKBA online portal for sponsors).

This way, regardless of what your BRP says, your new FLR will not kick in until your first day (the updated start date) at your new employer, thus your old/existing visa/FLR will still stay valid till your last day at your old employer.

I am not sure if we will receive an updated BRP once the start date amendment is made by the new employer. I don't think it's very likely as you need a new COS for a new BRP. However, on UKBA's record (updated by your new employer with finalised start date), they should be able to see your new FLR only effectively started the day after you left your old employer, thus no working for two employers at the same time - the thing that they are most concerned about with regards to Immigration rules.

I will be emailing the HR Immigration people at my old/current employer (a big American global company with over 150,000 employees globally) later tonight to find out if they can confirm/corroborate what my new employer has said.

I will keep everyone here posted as well once I hear back.

[i.atnet]

Dear Pandagon,

Many thanks for the update. I am in an exactly similar position like you. I have applied for Tier2 general on 21st Oct. and still waiting for the decision. The start date on my COS is 3rd Jan and I have to serve 1 month notice period with my current employer as well!

With reference to the information you have got from HR Immigration officer at your new employer ,they must have assumed that UKBA will send the approval letter and documents first and BRP later (may be 1-2 week later? )
Then only it is possible to change the date on the COS system and then they can amend the BRP and send it to us with correct/final date.

If UKBA sends BRP first then how we can change the start date on the cOS?

You are welcome i.atnet.

I see your logic, but my hunch is that even if there's an ample 2 week gap between the receipt of approval letter (when your employer inform UKBA of your updated start date) and the issue of BRP, that would still be too short a notice for the slow bunch at UKBA to change the start date on your to-be-issued BRP.

The point my new employer made is that I resign when UKBA inform me of my positive application result. It does not matter if I receive Approval letter or BRP first/together. The gist is, as long as your new employer keeps UKBA informed of your actual start date there, you can continue working for your old employer.

You need to let your new employer know your actual plausible start date as soon as you received the decision (approval letter or BRP) and after finding out when your old/current employer can actually let you go (your last day on notice). So that the new employer can inform/update UKBA of your finalised start date which will supercede/replace the the original proposed start date on the COS/BRP via their Sponsors Management System (UKBA online portal for sponsors).

This way, regardless of what your BRP says, your new FLR will not kick in until your first day (the updated start date) at your new employer, thus your old/existing visa/FLR will still stay valid till your last day at your old employer.

I am not sure if we will receive an updated BRP once the start date amendment is made by the new employer. I don't think it's very likely as you need a new COS for a new BRP. However, on UKBA's record (updated by your new employer with finalised start date), they should be able to see your new FLR only effectively started the day after you left your old employer, thus no working for two employers at the same time - the thing that they are most concerned about with regards to Immigration rules.

I will be emailing the HR Immigration people at my old/current employer (a big American global company with over 150,000 employees globally) later tonight to find out if they can confirm/corroborate what my new employer has said.

I will keep everyone here posted as well once I hear back.

Dear Pandagon,

I have also asked my new employer to crosscheck with UKBA about possibility of chnging the start date on COS. I will keep everyone posted as soon as I hear from them.

Have you heard anything from your old employer about this?

[Pandagon]

Dear Pandagon,

I have also asked my new employer to crosscheck with UKBA about possibility of chnging the start date on COS. I will keep everyone posted as soon as I hear from them.

Have you heard anything from your old employer about this?

Oops, will update later once 100% sure!

[i.atnet]

Dear Pandagon,

I have also asked my new employer to crosscheck with UKBA about possibility of chnging the start date on COS. I will keep everyone posted as soon as I hear from them.

Have you heard anything from your old employer about this?

Oops, will update later once 100% sure!

Hi Pandagon,

Have you got any update on this?

Many thanks in advance.

[i.atnet]

Dear Pandagon,

I have also asked my new employer to crosscheck with UKBA about possibility of chnging the start date on COS. I will keep everyone posted as soon as I hear from them.

Have you heard anything from your old employer about this?

Oops, will update later once 100% sure!

Hi Pandagon,

Have you got any update on this?

Many thanks in advance.

Hello Everybody,

Just to sahre a piece if info.

My new employer have asked UKBA about possibility changing the start date on the COS and their response is "unfortunately you will not be able to change this as once you have assigned a certificate you are not then able to amend the start date."

many thanks

[i.atnet]

Dear Pandagon,

I have also asked my new employer to crosscheck with UKBA about possibility of chnging the start date on COS. I will keep everyone posted as soon as I hear from them.

Have you heard anything from your old employer about this?

Oops, will update later once 100% sure!

Hi Pandagon,

Have you got any update on this?

Many thanks in advance.

Hello Everybody,

Just to sahre a piece if info.

My new employer have asked UKBA about possibility changing the start date on the COS and their response is "unfortunately you will not be able to change this as once you have assigned a certificate you are not then able to amend the start date."

many thanks

Hi Pandagon,

Congratulations on getting the new visa!

I was just wondering what you did about your notice period with your old employer and have you changed the COS start date?

Your reply would be really helpful.

Many thanks

[Pandagon]

Hi Pandagon,

Congratulations on getting the new visa!

I was just wondering what you did about your notice period with your old employer and have you changed the COS start date?

Your reply would be really helpful.

Many thanks

Oops, sorry been busy with my Canadian PR application, totally left the UK thingy in the dark. I spoke to a guy called Nigel (a lovely guy) at the UKBA Policy Team on the phone via my new employer. The information he gave was:

- If you are switching from the old Work Permit, you have to stop working for your old employer as soon as you receive your BRP as your old visa will be immediately superseded.

- If you are already on Tier 2 and switch to another employer, you are allowed a "window period" (he didn't say how long) during which you can serve notice at old employer after you recevied your new BRP.

So if you are already on Tier 2 and want to change employer then you are better off than those who are on the old work permit visa as you can resign from old employer after you received your new Tier 2 application result.

As I was on the old Work Permit visa, I had little choice but to give my old employer my contracted notice period (1 month) before my estimated Tier 2 application approval date, and I received my BRP 3 days after my last day at my old employer.

Note this is not a risk free option as your new Tier 2 application may be refused, however, considering that both my employers are big multinationals (routinely sponsor Tier 2) and my new pay is well over £50k (clears all SOC requirements), I decided to take the risk.

The 3 days were spent in country awaiting for new application decision so they are not overstay and will not count against me in future applications. In other words, as long as you submit your new application before your last day at your old employer, you would be fine.

For those who are worrying about receiving your BRP after the Start date stated on your COS, don't worry, your employer can update your actual start date on the Sponsor's Management System once your application is approved (Please distinguish this from changing start date on COS).

The Start date on the COS can not be changed once the COS is issued, however, it is only a technical indication, ie, when your employer prefers you to start. HO is often slow and may issue your BRP after the Start date on your COS, these are out of your control and will not affect the result of your Tier 2 application.

Hope this helps. Happy new year everyone!

[satyaravisingh]

Congrats Dude.

Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation.
I am in the same boat.

I am thinking to resign from my current employer as soon as I get the one day appointment date from new company HR. So the steps I am following are:

1. Get an appointment date for one day appointment (two weeks in advance)
2. Resign from current employer as soon as the one day appointment date is finalised
3. Fix the last date with current employer around the date I will receive my BRP

Do you reckon this is a plausible way of dealing with situation?

[zolopp]

Congrats Pandagon
I want to switch from Work Permit to Tier2. I think it was very bold of you to resign before receiving your new BRP. Few people will take a chance like this with the inconsistent attitude UKBA may show sometimes.

satyaravisingh! Is your situation the same that both companies are big multinationals and your salary will safely satisfy the requirements?

I really wonder that if someone calls UKBA again they may now say that its OK to give notice after getting BRP even when switching from Work Permit to Tier2.

Regards
Zolopp

[Pandagon]

Congrats Dude.

Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation.
I am in the same boat.

I am thinking to resign from my current employer as soon as I get the one day appointment date from new company HR. So the steps I am following are:

1. Get an appointment date for one day appointment (two weeks in advance)
2. Resign from current employer as soon as the one day appointment date is finalised
3. Fix the last date with current employer around the date I will receive my BRP

Do you reckon this is a plausible way of dealing with situation?

Congrats Pandagon
I want to switch from Work Permit to Tier2. I think it was very bold of you to resign before receiving your new BRP. Few people will take a chance like this with the inconsistent attitude UKBA may show sometimes.

satyaravisingh! Is your situation the same that both companies are big multinationals and your salary will safely satisfy the requirements?

I really wonder that if someone calls UKBA again they may now say that its OK to give notice after getting BRP even when switching from Work Permit to Tier2.

Regards
Zolopp

You are welcome

It all depends on your assessment of your own situation as nobody knows your chances of success more than yourself. I resigned before I learnt my application result as I was confident about my employers and myself fulfilling all the requirements.

If you are too, then your proposed course of actions is sensible, ie, resign after you obtained your PEO appointment and fix final day with old employer. Otherwise, you may want to have a plan B and build in some contingency measures while you can.

Re ILR, it wasn't one of my top concerns. My partner is Canadian and we are thinking about moving over there in a couple of years (better environment & welfare, less stress & xenophobic policies etc).

Nevertheless, my old pay was far from enough to entitle me to ILR anyway (SOC requirment for my profession is min £38k). So moving to a new job that pays much more than that is a bonus and opens up the option.

Hope it works out for you whatever your situations are.

[Pandagon]

Duplicate posting.

[tier210]

congrats pandagon for new employment and visa
i am also considering changing employment
presently i m on tier 2 (g) expiring Nov'12
i want to determine if in case my visa is refused from new employer after going through cos and all the stuff, will this invalidate my previous employer's visa?
i guess i will be eligible for ILR in 2013 if psw is considered as 10 yr residency option, in case i get visa for 3 more year with the new employer, will it affect my chances of ILR since rules for tier 2 have change after april 2011?
thanking in anticipation