naturalisation questions

[Marco 72]

I am an Italian citizen, and have been living and working in the UK for many years. Last year I applied for ILR after marrying my American wife, so that she would get an EEA Family permit. This was granted in December 2005, so next December I can apply for naturalisation. I have a few questions and would be grateful if someone could answer them:

1. About the referees: exactly what legal responsibility are they taking on? Do they have to certify that everything stated on my application is true? Are they in principle responsible in case it turns out someone lied on their application? I was thinking of asking people I met many years ago, like university tutors, but it would be preposterous of me to ask them to certify what I did after we lost touch. In that case I'd probably just wait a few more months and ask my current employers (I started working for them early in 2004).

2. About the dates on which I entered and left the UK in the past five years: are these meant to be exact? I haven't been keeping track that long, and I wouldn't know for sure about my trips before 2005. I know for sure that at most I was away 2 or 3 weeks a year, and I could give indicative dates for my trips, but they wouldn't be exact. Is this a problem? Could I get into trouble if I put down a date and it turned out not to be exact?

3. How long does it generally take to submit an application via NCS?

4. Strictly speaking, this is unrelated to naturalisation: I understand that for a British citizen referees are required in order to apply for a British passport, and they need to have known you for at least two years. Would a work colleague be acceptable?

Thanks,

Marco

[ppron747]

Referees are only saying they know you, and you're OK - they're not testifying as to the accuracy of your application. They're supposed to be people you know well - not generally just employers, or people you knew years ago. I don't think the Home Office is particularly bothered about the social standing of the referees - they can be your neighbours - they don't have to be pillars of society in any way.

On travel dates, it would clearly be better if they were exact, but I think that so long as you make it clear that you can't be certain of their exactness, but that (eg) you were away for three weeks in August/September 2003, you should be OK. I think the point is that you shouldn't put yourself in the position of declaring something to be true when you're not certain that that's the case. Unless your patterns of travel are such that you're getting close to the maximum permitted absences, I think they'll tend to give you the benefit of the doubt.

On the length of time it takes, it might be a few weeks, and might be a few months, I'm afraid. It really does vary that much.

[ppron747]

I've just seen an email from someone who applied via NCS on 20 September and got his ceremony invitation letter on 9 October - so things are looking good...

[Christophe]

1. About the referees: exactly what legal responsibility are they taking on? Do they have to certify that everything stated on my application is true? Are they in principle responsible in case it turns out someone lied on their application? I was thinking of asking people I met many years ago, like university tutors, but it would be preposterous of me to ask them to certify what I did after we lost touch. In that case I'd probably just wait a few more months and ask my current employers (I started working for them early in 2004).


4. I understand that for a British citizen referees are required in order to apply for a British passport, and they need to have known you for at least two years. Would a work colleague be acceptable?

1. The referees for a naturalisation application are stating that they support the application - they are, in a way, sponsors, rather like sponsors for club membership, I suppose (although some would say that that was going too far). They also state that they have known the applicant for the required length of time. They are not responsible for the accuracy of what the applicant has put on the form. Referees for a naturalisation application don't, however, have to be professionals, so it may not be ncessary to ask former tutors and the like if that is going to be awkward for you.

4. On the other hand, the referee for a passport application (only one referee is required here) is merely stating that he or she has known the applicant for the required length of time and that the photographs are a true likeness of the person making the application. The referee is not particularly supporting or otherwise the application. A work colleague would be quite acceptable provided that all the other criteria (as described on the application form) are fulfilled.

[Dawie]

I am still of the opinion that it is perfectly possible to have spent 5 years in the UK (London especially), qualify for naturalisation and not know any British citizen who can act as a referee for you. Personally I just barely know 2 British citizens who have known me for 3 years. If I didn't know these 2 people then I don't know what I would do.

I have a feeling that a lot of people lie when it comes to referees on their naturalisation application form, or rather, get people to lie for them. For many foreigners living in the UK it is quite difficult to find 2 British citizens that have known you at an appropriate level for the required amount of time.

[Marco 72]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I am still of the opinion that it is perfectly possible to have spent 5 years in the UK (London especially), qualify for naturalisation and not know any British citizen who can act as a referee for you.

It's perfectly possible, but if you don't, then you don't qualify for naturalisation. You could have moved frequently, you could have bad luck (e.g. the few people who could do it are afraid to take on the responsibility), or you could be one of those people who find it immensely difficult to call friends they haven't seen in years to ask for a favour. I am one of those
By the way, has anyone heard any rumours about the government planning to increase from one to two years the time that people need to have spent on ILR before they can apply for naturalisation?

[Dawie]

By the way, has anyone heard any rumours about the government planning to increase from one to two years the time that people need to have spent on ILR before they can apply for naturalisation?

I've never heard of this rumour and it would nonsensical anyway. If the government wanted to increase the amount of time it takes to get citizenship they would do what they have already done....increase the amount of time it takes to get ILR.

I remember reading somewhere (I can't for the life of me remember where now) that it is the government's stated preference that ILR holders obtain British citizenship as quickly as possible once they qualify for it. And as can be seen by the substantially improved times for obtaining naturalisations reported on this board (as little as a week in some cases using the naturalisation checking service), the government has made obtaining citizenship much much easier than it's ever been. So if anything naturalisation has become easier not harder.

Remember too that the increase in time to obtain ILR was driven by political reasons, the main one being to decrease the amount of settlement visas issued to foreigners in order to be seen to be "cracking down" on immigration. Once a foreigner has obtained ILR, they are for all intents and purposes settled here in the UK, so there is very little political capital to be gained from increasing the time period between obtaining ILR and being naturalised.

In fact having been asked about ILR and naturalisation by some Brits at work it is very clear to me that to most British people there is no distinction between the concept of "permanent residency" and full citizenship. As far as they are concerned it is the same thing. Of course we all know that it isn't, but then the government only cares about British people's perceptions, not ours.

[JAJ]

By the way, has anyone heard any rumours about the government planning to increase from one to two years the time that people need to have spent on ILR before they can apply for naturalisation?

Bear in mind that would need primary legislation. It couldn't be done just like that.