Refusal - Age Evidence

ND · Post by ND » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:59 pm

All,

One of my friend has recenty applied for HSMP and his application is refused on the basis that he did not privide the evidence provided in guidance.

The evidence he provided for "age" is his "Original Secondary School Certificate" and photo copies of passport and UK driving license.

I think its unfair because :

The HSMP under 28 guidance says:

“You should provide evidence of your age, in the form of an official document such as your birth certificate or a notarised copy of the personal details page of your passport or your driving licence. (Please do not send your original passport with this application form)”

As you can see it says the evidence should be in the form of an official document such as Birth certificate or notarised copy of personal details page of your passport or driving license.
But it doesn’t specify that it’s a MUST to send either of these, and I am sure most of the applicants would understand it as any such official documents would be considered.Therefore I don’t see any reason why “Secondary School Original Certificate” is not considered as proof of age as this is the same official document that’s considered to issue indian passport and therefore is no less than a original passport as evidence for proof of age.

He is planning to appeal on this basis . What do you guys think ?

Any suggestions would greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
ND

maar · Post by **maar** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:54 pm

It is not a big surprise to me, they refused one of my friends application for age evidance.

He has provided a letter from Indian High commission stating that his age is so and so as per his passport, they rejected it saying it can't be taken as official document. I'm surprised to see this...

So guys always send either notarised passport or originial birth certificate or UK driving licence.... nothing else, these people are idiots and they can't understand anything else...

No use in making appeal, make a fresh application if you are elligible in new scheme... or you can just try making appeal which is of no use.

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:31 am

maar,

Thanks for your reply. Did your friend appeal or reapply ? If he has appealed can you throw some light on how ?

Any other suggestions from forum members would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
ND

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:36 pm

Can moderators or fellow members post your openions please ?????????

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:57 pm

ND,
This issue been many times stressed in many threads. Infact this is why sometimes we need Proper Consultant to apply for us.

Many times we are thinking we can do everything, but failing because of this over confidence

Other than Notorised copy of passport or Original Birth Certificate or original UK driving license everything will be rejected by them

Even if that birth certificate is too old without proper contact details. That also will be rejected.

Only notorised passport copy is safer

Even if you send passport copy, birth certificate copy, licence copy + Original school marksheet then also they will reject

they are following only law, they are not working based on wisdom. For them law is the bible

For your friend review WILL NOT work. need to re apply

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:36 pm

Hari15,

Thanks for your reply. I agree with some of your points. But I dont agree that they are following law , they are following the guidance. Can you tell me where in the guidance they have specified that ONLY notorised copy of passport is accepted ? All they have specified is:

“You should provide evidence of your age, in the form of an official document such as your birth certificate or a notarised copy of the personal details page of your passport or your driving licence .

I am not very good @ english but , the word such as should not be used here if thats the case . They should have writen that "only notorised copies are accpeted" . Also if you have noticed the under 28 form. The age section has "Others " tick box. They should not have kept this as they did for education, in education they have only "Acedamic Certificate" and "References" there is no "Others section".

Please go through the point i am trying to make and please post your openion.

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:48 pm

ND,
Your question is right in general.. But not right when it comes to home office UK

you should understand one point

THERE FIRST AIM ON ANY APPLICATION IS TO REJECT, ONLY IF THEY FIND NO REASON TO REJECT THEY WILL APROVE.

THEY WILL SEARCH BEST FOR ALL LOOP HOLES AND REASONS ON HOW TO REJECT

Have they mentioned "School mark sheet" anywhere in that?

Is that reason is not enough for them to reject

How you concluded that the "Such as" includes school marksheet also?

Try to make your application such that you are giving no chance for rejection. Thats the only way. No use in questioning home office

Ashekt · Post by **Ashekt** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:49 pm

I think your friend should re-apply as the documents he has provided are valid enough proof and if that's the only points he wants to qualify, it's worth the try...the only things which goes against him is that he has not got the photocopies notarized...review don't cost u anything so go ahead with the argument....but as I said it's worth only if those age points will make ur friend qualify for HSMP and he gain points under other criterias.

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:54 pm

hari15,

Can I request you to please not post in caps ? Your arguments are really helping me to prepare for review . Thanks for that . I agree that point to mention for preparing the application . The damage is already made . So what I am expecting in this forum is to suggest any valid points that can be used for review. If you strongly believe that its waste then thats fine that as well . But I can see a valid point to go for a review based on there guidance .

Is there anyone that willing to suggest for review ?

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:56 pm

ND wrote:hari15,

Can I request you to please not post in caps ? Your arguments are really helping me to prepare for review . Thanks for that . I agree that point to mention for preparing the application . The damage is already made . So what I am expecting in this forum is to suggest any valid points that can be used for review. If you strongly believe that its waste then thats fine that as well . But I can see a valid point to go for a review based on there guidance .

Is there anyone that willing to suggest for review ?

sorry I posted in caps.. just for others should not make the same mistake ..

Because I know that this is one major reason for rejection

I will again suggest you dont waste time in applying review, they will again reject.

Re-apply again with notorised copy of passport, it will succeed.. All the best.

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:58 pm

Ashekt,

Thanks for your reply. Yes he gets more than 65 points if his application is considered as under 28 . I see no reason why it should not accepted based on the guidance. Any english experts / lawyers welcome

.

I agree that no where its mentioned that Secondary school certificate is accepted but the same way there is no where in the guidance or the form that says "ONLY" passport notorized copy , brith certi , driving license are
accepted.

I am suggesting to go for review. Lets see. Any more ssuggestions welcome.

Ashekt · Post by **Ashekt** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:13 pm

In mu case also, the Secondary school certificate was accepted as a valid proof although I also submitted a valid notarized copy....tell ur friend to go ahead with the review before u go over that 28 days limit....just defend properly in the rebiew letter and don't sound very offensive or defensive...I am sure it can work out well as I have seen review working fine for other different reasons...Best of Luck!!

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:14 pm

ND wrote:Ashekt,
I am suggesting to go for review. Lets see. Any more ssuggestions welcome.

If you want to waste time, You can...

Here we are saying for your benefit only.....

I am in this forum for past 5 months... also I just got my hsmp approved.. also I am in contact with many consultants..

Please take my words seriously "review is just a waste of time"

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:16 pm

Ashekt wrote:In mu case also, the Secondary school certificate was accepted as a valid proof although I also submitted a valid notarized copy....tell ur friend to go ahead with the review before u go over that 28 days limit....just defend properly in the rebiew letter and don't sound very offensive or defensive...I am sure it can work out well as I have seen review working fine for other different reasons...Best of Luck!!

Ashekt case succeeded because he submitted notorised copy of passport also..

But that is not the case with ND... I saying review wont work for ND

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm

But anyway ND.... if you are not applying newly for next 2 months, then you can try review

as already said here review wont cost you anything. But will cost time, during that time you cant do new application

But I know the outcome, it is not of any use

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:20 pm

Thanks Ashekt.

We are planning to go for review with reference to guidance as it can be understood any way as stated in my above posts . Going for review is defnite but I want to get some inpu from the valuable forum members here on there experiences for review and what they suggest in my friends case. I myself had applied for hsmp but thats 2 years back and was successful both in intial/extension applications and the proff i submited in my initial application is secondary certificate along with photo copies of passport.

I dont see any reason why the applicaiton should be considered as over 28 as they dont have a single form of evidance to support it. Thats totally unfair.

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:26 pm

ND
I know even a person whose age proof was rejected since he submitted his valid workpermit as its proof

Even in workpermit approval document they use to give our birth date

Home office not agreeing even the document issued by the same office only

so I am not surprised by rejected based on school certificate, to be frank

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:30 pm

Hari,

I agree . First of all thanks for your input ,that will be really helpful. I am not saying that the review will be successful but all I am trying to do here is prepare a strong case with the information available and see how it go's , anyway we know that he's eligible with new rules as well thats a alternate but he wants to go for review and i agree with that.

Did the person you mentioned go for review , just out of curiosity ?

Go through this post : http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ght=#48829

and check ansilla's post , she says that her review is approved . Its a same case as my firends.

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:41 pm

ND wrote: Did the person you mentioned go for review , just out of curiosity ?

That I dont know...

ND wrote: and check ansilla's post , she says that her review is approved . Its a same case as my firends.

Oh OK... then I think you can also try your luck.. all the best...

But what I said here is.. It is not 100% assured.. you may get success if you are really lucky.. say chances are 10%... failure chances are 90%

In the time been wasted in this we can apply with 100% guarantee in new application

Just the Guarantee level varies... But nothing wrong in trying your luck in review, if you have no plans for new application. But if you have plan for new application, then better go for it first. That is only my suggestion

ND · Post by ND » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:45 pm

We were planning to go for review and if that does'nt work in our favor then reapply.

Ashekt · Post by **Ashekt** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:59 am

My suggestion for a review is justified as it won't cost anything to take a chance and as of now the HSMP scheme is also suspended. Review works faster than the HSMP application. The review has worked so well with one of my friend. He fought the case providing strong arguments and explaining all points which the Immigration Officer disputed cross-reffering to the documents provided.

ND · Post by ND » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:30 am

Ashekt,

Your posts are so encouraging thanks for that. In our case the reason for going to review is not that its free or won't cost any thing but its that fact that there is a mistake on there side and in the guidance and they should read there own guidance carefully and understand the meaning.

I personally think we have a strong point to argue as there guidance does'nt say its a must to send either passport or birthcertificate. In fact it was conveying a message that official documents are accceptable.

Yesterday I read the guidance again and compared it with the new guidance thats released on Nov 6 th. Anyone could clearly see the difference between both :

They have corrected there english in new guidance.

Chek these :

Old Guidance : Used in my friends case

You should provide evidence of your age, in the form of an official document such as your birth certificate or a notarised copy of the personal details page of your passport or your driving licence. (Please do not send your original passport with this application form)

New Guidance :

Evidence Required
You must provide evidence of your age if you wish to claim any points in this category. We will accept:
Your original birth certificate; or
Your original full driving licence.

Exceptional consideration
If there are exceptional reasons as to why you are not able to provide either of these two documents then you may request exceptional consideration of your case. We may be willing to consider alternative evidence specified below in support of these points claimed in exceptional circumstances, such as if war or natural disaster has affected you.

If there are exceptional and compelling reasons as to why you are unable to provide one of the required pieces of evidence then you will need to explain these reasons fully on the application form.

You will also need to provide alternative evidence in the form of a notarised copy of the personal details page of your passport. (Please do not send your original passport with this application form).

You should note that unless we are satisfied that the reasons you are unable to provide either your original birth certificate or driving license are compelling then we will not consider the alternative documentation submitted.

You can notice from the above the difference between the two , the first one conveys that official documents are accptable where as the second one clearly says only those 2 are accepted except under exceptional circumstances and they also clearly stated what these documents are.

So I see no reason why they wont follow there own guidance . Aslo no where in the guidance they say that the application will be considered as over 28 if they are not satisfied with evidence . So where did they bring this rule from which is not in the guidance ? They should have gone for verification accodring to there guidance.

What is your openion regarding the points I mentioned ? Any suggestions inputs greatly appreciated.

maar · Post by **maar** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:08 pm

Review will not work out, you must have to re-apply.

Review will work if they have done it mistakenly... but this was done purposefully.. so no use in going for review.

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Refusal - Age Evidence

Refusal - Age Evidence