Social Welfare married to a Non EU spouse living abroad ..

[missirish]

Hello im an irish woman..
I am considering marriage after long term relationship (3 years) with a non EU resident Man from the middle east , numerous visits etc from both of us to each other's countries etc... He is wonderful and i could not have asked to know a better man... A gentleman in the true sense of the word . I have recently lost my job as an accountant.. i have children prior to this relationship.. Because i am currently unemployed i am claiming at full rate OPFA.. (it was on a largely reduced rate because of my job but it seems all my good work going back to college backfired, i had planned to be off it by now , now back to square one until i get a new job).. Im worried now due to the recessionary times we live in..about many things..

He has a great job.. which pays very well by his country's standards.. but on conversion to euro.. its insufficient to support me and my family here in ireland.... He wants me to move there because he loves his job and and doesnt want to leave it to be nothing in ireland.. And he is right.. i agree that he should not give up all he has worked for until something similar comes up here in ireland in his line of work .. I cant move the kids out there.. culture is too different and on researching the standard of education there im not happy.

We are both willing to make it work on distance.. seeing each other every few months (many do couples do that) until the optimal time comes when i can move out there.. ie kids are older and have their own lives etc.. or if he gets same job here (unlikely at the moment) I know many will think this to be out of the ordinary but we are willing to do what it takes to be together.. he says if i marry him he will of course make contributions.. but even if he gives me all his wages.. it wont be enough..

I need proper planning to endure that myself and my existing children are secure.. I plan on securing employment, hopefully soon.. but what happens if i become unemployed again in the future and my husband works abroad (with little support on conversion to euro) re social welfare benefits.. and what happens if i become pregnant re maternity leave and payments etc..

also there is the issue of spousal visa.. Can he just visit me on this visa or will they assume he will live with me.? do we have to apply for this on marriage.. or can we keep applying for tourist visas/multiple entry..(he has already had tourist visas to ireland) or will they think he wont go home cos he is married to me.. (this poses problem cos i cant support him for spousal visa, he always got tourist visa based on his own merits)

I just want to think well before our marriage.. Your suggestions, ideas and experiences would be ever so helpful in my decision..

[zafarzafar80]

Hi missirish,

First of all what country your bf is from ?

Is he a visa required national to enter to ireland ?

Did he ever visisted you in ireland ? If yes how many times ?

***If he is a visa required national to visit ireland than he have to show a valid reason of his visit to ireland (which is obviously you), sufficient funds to support himself in ireland, your relationship history, your previous visit to his country and vice versa , his bank statement and his job letter + payslips.

***If you both agree to get married, you can get married in his country or he can apply for a marriage visa to get married in ireland.

Once you answer my question. you could get more explainations

[missirish]

Hi missirish,

First of all what country your bf is from ?

Is he a visa required national to enter to ireland ?

Did he ever visisted you in ireland ? If yes how many times ?

***If he is a visa required national to visit ireland than he have to show a valid reason of his visit to ireland (which is obviously you), sufficient funds to support himself in ireland, your relationship history, your previous visit to his country and vice versa , his bank statement and his job letter + payslips.

***If you both agree to get married, you can get married in his country or he can apply for a marriage visa to get married in ireland.

Once you answer my question. you could get more explainations

He is a visa required National.. He is from Egypt. He has visited me before in Ireland and I him in Egypt.. He wants me to marry him Islamically.. The economic situation is not good in Ireland at the moment so he wont come to live here for some time as he has a very good job in his home country. he will wont come to live here until job prospects pick up.. I want to marry him.. I have known him for three years now. Im worried though about many many things.. I was formally working as an accountant.. i have kids from previous marriage and now find myself on social welfare. Im so scared that ill lose my money if i marry even islamically (even Islamic marriage is not recognised in Ireland) . I dont want to affect his reputation in his own country carrying on as we are without marriage .. its a bad thing for him.. He says after we marry he will support me as much as his wages allow but on conversion to euro.. the wages wont amount to enough to support me.. He also wants children. The plan is to marry Islamically.. wait until jobs situation improves here, travel on visit visas, multi entry.. and then marry civilly after some time and begin spousal visa application.. (bear in mind i have dependants so im worrying about funds required for support so even if i have job ill never be paid enough.. he has good savings and plans to have alot more by the time the right time comes to apply.. to be honest.. Im afraid to marry him islamically even.. because im afraid visa issues will not permit us to ever live together.. im afraid if after marriage i become pregant (which he expects) that he wont be permitted to see his child and always subject to uncertainty.. Its a horrible mess ..

[Brigid from Ireland]

'even Islamic marriage is not recognised in Ireland . The plan is to marry Islamically.. wait until jobs situation improves here, travel on visit visas, multi entry.. and then marry civilly'

It is important for you to note that even if you go through a form of marriage not recognised in Ireland, it is sufficient for Dept of Social Welfare to conclude you are not entitled to Lone Parents payment. If Lone Parents is paid after you go through any form of marriage, you will be deemed to be cohabiting (even if he is in Egypt) and money will be reclaimed by the Dept.
One option you have is to go to Social Welfare and switch from Lone Parents to Jobseekers. Put this chap on the claim as a qualified adult, and give them details of his wages from Egypt (if he earns less than a certain amount, you will get full Jobseekers Allowance). They may not want to pay for him as an adult dependent if he is in Egypt, but then again the law may require them to pay the adult dependent to you. At any rate they cannot accuse you of concealing any information.
Going off Lone Parents may not suit you, if you are not in a position to take up work if it is offered. Remember that if you go off Lone parents it may be difficult to get back on it, so you could find yourself required to take up a job...

[missirish]

Thank you Brigid..

I have used up all my stamps so i cant claim JSB and and if i go on JS Allowance his earnings will be taken into acccount. I estimate that his earnings wud be around 168 per week. He also works full time.

i estimate his weekly earnings would be around 168 pw

If i understand correctly, becasue he is otu of the state, they wont assess my claim awarding him a Qualified Dependant Allowance
(when assessing claim the layout is jsa plus QA plus Q children minus Means)

.. How is it fair then to consider his means if they wont quantify my entitlement by adding Qualified Adult?

[Brigid from Ireland]

Nobody said that the law is fair. It is however the law, so if you marry him in an Islamic ceremony in Egypt you are no longer entitled to lone parents. It is better to claim whatever you might be entitled to on jobseekers allowance/supplementary allowance than to claim lone parents and have it all reclaimed when the Dept. realise you are married (the fact that the marriage may or may not be recognised in Ireland does not matter to social welfare, just that you consider yourself married).

I think that they are correct - the spouse must be in Ireland (or the EU) in order for him to be counted on your claim, that sounds right under Irish law. His means are assessable no matter what country they are earned in, as are his assets, so this is a problem for you if you marry. There is no easy solution.

He has a right to join you in Ireland if you are married (even an Islamic marriage which you think is not recognised here). The Islamic marriage is legal in the country where it was carried out, so there is a strong possibility it may be legal in Ireland also, particularly if any previous wife is divorced/dead. His rights are stronger if you are the only wife under Islamic law, so check this with him. He may also have inheritance rights to your house/property/bank accounts if you die, as once again the Islamic marriage may indeed be recognised here.

I'm sorry that there is no easy solution, but the law is the law.

[IntegratedMigrant]

Another way is not to marry his Islamically for now. You could marry his in court and when everything settles re-marry him whichever way you or him prefers.

It is saddening not to be with someone you love and care about over some Laws. There is always an alternative to get through some tougher Laws that are a barrier to ones life.

You both should be willing to make lots of sacrifices if you want to be with each other

[missirish]

Thank you very much for the information.. Heading down this week to sort it out! .. I dont want to be doing anything wrong.. Hopefully soon ill get a job and wont have to be worrying about these things for too long !
Thanks all