HUBBY HAS RECVD NEWS ABOUT SPOUSE VISA

[rainbow24]

My husbands case was rejected by the BHC in Islamabad today!

This does not appear to be the case from what you have said. You said that he has been here for 6 years and never even approached the Home Office in attempt to have his status regularised. This however, will not harm his application for entry clearance as a spouse.

Jeff it has harmed his application for entry clearance as a spouse!!! The fact that he did not attempt to regularise his status whilst in the UK, has harmed his case very much.

Problem is, it's not just the fact that he did not contact the home office, he was refused his visa on other grounds. When they assessed his documents, they handed them over to Gerry Fedex. When my husband went to the Gerry Fedex office he was given a letter asking for only the passports and any correspondance with the home office. He had neither due to the reasons I have explained in my previous posts.

My husband went to the interview and it took 35 mintues in total. He was asked only a few questions about his immigration history ie how did you come to this country and why did you not regularise your status in the UK? Most of the questions had to do with our marriage!

One very big problem with the interview and this has caused chaos... My husband did not bring any of the original supporting documents with him to the interview because he assumed that the embassy don't need to see them again as they have already processed the documents and handed them back to Gerry Fedex. Instead, he turned up at the interview empty handed. When asked various questions by the ECO, he kept replying with the same answer "I have already given you all the information you needed" When asked "Where is your documents" by the ECO, my husband replied "At home. The interview letter asked for specific information which I don't have to bring along to the interview, it did not ask me to bring the same documents which I have already submitted to the embassy before".

Reasons for rejection

1) No payslips
2) No bankstatements
3) Not satisfied that you have adequate accomodation.
4) No proof of National Insurance by your sponsor.
5) No proof that your sponsor is with Inland Revenue.

He was asked "Why didn't you marry in the UK". My husband replied "I had a Muslim marriage, but not a civil marriage because I was illegal and was told by a solicitor that it would be very risky to have a civil marriage as they will need evidence of your passport, documents etc which I don't have" He also told them that he has submitted evidence of the Muslim marriage which was done in the UK and then in Pakistan as we were told that the Muslim marriage is not valid under UK law as he is illegal. That is why we repeated the whole marriage again in Pakistan and provided evidence such as the Nikah Namma in English and in Urdu, photographs, everything. Again such evidence was in the folder which he left at home.

On top of everything else he was asked "Did you tell your wife that you were illegal before marriage". He replied "Yes". They wrote on the rejction letter and I quote.

'We are not satisfied that you married in accordance with UK law, and that your marriage is genuine. Your wife knew you were illegal when you married her. Why would a British person marry an illegal immigrant'

They also wrote 'We don't believe it is necessary for the applicant to live in the UK with his wife. There is no reason why the applicant cannot go and live in Pakistan or ALTERNATIVELY vist the applicant in Pakistan. How on earth can I go and visit him all the time. What kind of family life is that? I have a baby for goodness sake. I am also not going to go and live in a country which has poor healthcare and my husband's family are living in a poor village which hardly any money. Is this what the British Government want for me and my son who are born in Britain?

The ECO who interviewed him said "Do you mind if we contact your wife" to which he replied "Not at all". I never received any call and he was left in a room for 2 hours. After that, the ECO returned and said "Your visa has been rejected". 24 applicants turned up at the embassy today. I swear to all of you 20 were rejected!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trouble is all the evidence is there, its in the folder in his house. They never resheduled the interview despite my husband telling them the reason why he did not bring his documents. They never considered I have a baby who has not seen his father. What am I going to do now. I am devestated.

Plzzzzzz anybody help. John, Jeff, I need your help.

[Dawie]

Jeff it has harmed his application for entry clearance as a spouse!!! The fact that he did not attempt to regularise his status whilst in the UK, has harmed his case very much.

This cannot have harmed his case at all because it is NOT POSSIBLE to regularise your status in the UK if you are an illegal immigrant. You have to return to your country of origin and apply for entry clearence in some or other category.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the reason your husband failed to get his visa is for the simple reason that you and him were not sufficiently prepared. How can he expect to arrive at the UK embassy with NO documents whatsover and achieve a result?

You and him need to reapply and this time don't mess it up!

[rainbow24]

What is the best way forward. Appeal or reapply? What should we do?

[Dawie]

It would probably be quicker and easier to reapply, as the appeal process can become rather complicated and lengthy. Others on this board might be able to advise better on that.

At the risk of repeating what others have already said, the key to applying for any visa is to be prepared with every bit of possible documentation you might need that is relevant to your application, to never unnecessarily volunteer information unless explicity asked for it, to know the letter of the law exactly as it pertains to the type of visa you are trying to obtain, to be ready to use your knowledge of the law to defend your position if necessary, and of course, to tell the truth as far as possible. I think if you follow those rules, confidence will come naturally and entry clearance officers will know that they are dealing with someone who is knowledgable and confident.

Unfortunately the rule of the game is that the visa applicant is under pressure to prove that he is eligible for a visa, and the entry clearance officer is under pressure to disprove the visa applicant's eligibility for a visa. If you are well-armed with all your documents you will find it easier to prove your eligibility than the entry clearance officer will to disprove your eligibility.

[rainbow24]

This cannot have harmed his case at all because it is NOT POSSIBLE to regularise your status in the UK if you are an illegal immigrant. You have to return to your country of origin and apply for entry clearence in some or other category

Dawie I hear what you are saying but the visa was rejected for 2 main reasons, one being no evidence, the other reason for the rejection was because my husband did not regularise his status in the UK. I have the letter in front of me which was faxed over from Pakistan. If what you are saying is true (and I do believe both Jeff and yourself) why is the British High Commission in Pakistan using the fact that he did not regularise his status as one of the grounds for rejection?

We have a very well presented file full of documents which would satisfy the spouse visa criteria. Unfortunately, everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong yesterday. We are going to try re applying to the BHC again and at the same time do an appeal but I want to consult a solicitor to discuss this first.

One other ground that they used to reject my husbands visa was because we got married in January 06 and did not leave the country until July 06 to go back to Pakistan to apply for the spouse visa. He was asked why. He told the ECO that we had just got married and we wanted to spend time together as a couple first. He also told them that we had both been to see solicitors/immigration lawyers during 7 months to see what our options were and were told that we have to go to Pakistan together to apply for the spouse visa. I can't believe they asked such a stupid queston. They want evidence that we have lived together for such a long period of time to establish if the marriage is genine, but at the same time they asking my husband 'Why did you wait until July to apply for your visa'. We had only just got married and on top of that it takes time to seek advice from lawyers, prepare a visa applicaton and so fourth. If we had gotton married and 1 month later we applied for the visa, they would probably have rejected the visa saying 'You haven't lived together as a couple for a reasonable period of time'.

[Jeff Albright]

I am sorry to hear about this... However, basing on the information you have supplied to us, your husband will have to be granted visa by the Immigration Rules once the full and complete documents have been received by the ECOs.

The fact that he did not attempt to regularise his status whilst in the UK, has harmed his case very much.

This is not true. Had it been the case, it would have been unlawful.

Problem is, it's not just the fact that he did not contact the home office, he was refused his visa on other grounds.

That is more likely.

My husband went to the interview and it took 35 mintues in total. He was asked only a few questions about his immigration history ie how did you come to this country and why did you not regularise your status in the UK? Most of the questions had to do with our marriage!

Yes I can believe it is probably true. The psychological assessment (the ECOs are trained for this specifically) is based on the wide range of questions to establish that the facts, in particular, that the marriage is genuine. The questions are focused on verifying the credibility of the supplied information.

My husband did not bring any of the original supporting documents with him to the interview because he assumed that the embassy don't need to see them again as they have already processed the documents and handed them back to Gerry Fedex. Instead, he turned up at the interview empty handed.

Sorry, this is obvious and regretful mistake on your husband part.

1) No payslips

Valid reason, I am afraid, as it denotes proof of income required under the immigration rules.

2) No bankstatements

As above.

3) Not satisfied that you have adequate accomodation.

You said you have supplied the proof of accommodation. Either it was overlooked or again, because of the mix up with that Fedex.
If there was no evidence of this before the ECO, this is also valid reason for refusal.

4) No proof of National Insurance by your sponsor.

Also relates to the maitenance issue. If your income was included (it should have been, as your husband has not provided any proof of income as yet) as a part of proof of ability to maintain yourselves without public funds, your payslips, copy of the contract of employment should have been provided to the ECOs

5) No proof that your sponsor is with Inland Revenue.

That also indirectly relates to maintenance issue. As above, your payslips, contract of employment should have been made available to the ECO.

On top of everything else he was asked "Did you tell your wife that you were illegal before marriage". He replied "Yes". They wrote on the rejction letter and I quote.

This question is addressed very often by the Home Office in refusal letters and appeals. However, this is not the ground for visa rejection. Technically, you cannot get married in the UK unless you have some sort of confirmed immigration status. Although the marriage law does not directly state this, and prior to 2004 there was no requirement as such under the immigration rules, you are expected to be "aware" that this is "against the law".

'We are not satisfied that you married in accordance with UK law, and that your marriage is genuine. Your wife knew you were illegal when you married her. Why would a British person marry an illegal immigrant'

How long have you lived together? You have not been married for long. WHat evidence have you provided on the length of your relationship? Have you provided any evidence that you are expecting a baby (I apologise, I cannot remember whether you already have a baby or only expecting)?

They also wrote 'We don't believe it is necessary for the applicant to live in the UK with his wife. There is no reason why the applicant cannot go and live in Pakistan or ALTERNATIVELY vist the applicant in Pakistan.

This statement is not in accordance with the rules and also contradicts other grounds of refusal. You must prove that you intend to live as husband and wife in the UK, which is what rules require you to prove.


From what you have written I gather that the main reason for your refusal was maintenance issue and that you have not provided sufficient evidence that you are genuinely married and intend to live together.

Once you have submitted all this evidence, the visa will be issued. THerefore, the best advice would be to reapply and submit the outstanding evidence.

Best of luck next time!

[Jeff Albright]

This cannot have harmed his case at all because it is NOT POSSIBLE to regularise your status in the UK if you are an illegal immigrant.

Dawie, I must disagree in general terms of this comment. I agree however, to the point that you cannot regularise your status in the UK if illegal. However, this is not the main issue here. What is implied here that there is no reason why an illegal immigrant cannot try to show some form of responsibility and committment to sorting his status out. No one is "entitled just to sit back and wonder how inefficient the immigration system may be" which is the statement from one of the leading cases at AIT made by an experienced senior immigration judge. Knowingly being illegal is one thing, doing nothing about it is another, which is worse and can have repercussions in the future, in particular, in respect of applications for entry clearance where you should show that you intend to follow the rules.

[Jeff Albright]

I'm sorry to be blunt, but the reason your husband failed to get his visa is for the simple reason that you and him were not sufficiently prepared.

Fully agree. And it seems that this was exactly the reason.

[Jeff Albright]

It would probably be quicker and easier to reapply, as the appeal process can become rather complicated and lengthy. Others on this board might be able to advise better on that.

Yeah, in this particular situation, it is better to reapply. However, appeals do not take long nowadays. It usually takes 3-4 days for the AIT to process an appeal, assign a reference number and the full hearing is usually listed in 4 weeks after that. In total, the entire appeal process takes 1 month + 1 or 2 weeks. The AIT has been completely reorganised streamlining all the appeals. Sometimes, even the ECOs may take longer to deal with certain applications when for example, the referral to the UK is required.

It only makes sense to reapply after all the outstanding evidence has been collected. It only makes sense to appeal when there is a clear error of law in the ECO's decision.

Unfortunately the rule of the game is that the visa applicant is under pressure to prove that he is eligible for a visa, and the entry clearance officer is under pressure to disprove the visa applicant's eligibility for a visa.

I disagree. The job of an ECO is only to ensure that all the relevant rules are met. He will not be looking specifically for reasons to refuse the EC because of being nasty. He takes all the evidence available to him and makes his decision on the balance of probabilities. When previous illegal residence is involved, more thorough assessment is carried out.

[rainbow24]

Thankyou Jeff, I really appreciate your help.

Just a few things I want to clarify with you.

The fact that he did not attempt to regularise his status whilst in the UK, has harmed his case very much.

This is not true. Had it been the case, it would have been unlawful.

Why then have they used this as one of the grounds for rejection?

You said you have supplied the proof of accommodation. Either it was overlooked or again, because of the mix up with that Fedex.
If there was no evidence of this before the ECO, this is also valid reason for refusal.

Yes, I supplied proof of accomodation, however, again this was in the file which my husband left at home along with ALL the other evidence.

Also relates to the maitenance issue. If your income was included (it should have been, as your husband has not provided any proof of income as yet) as a part of proof of ability to maintain yourselves without public funds, your payslips, copy of the contract of employment should have been provided to the ECOs

Again, proof of income was in the folder along with my contract of employment which was left at home.

This question is addressed very often by the Home Office in refusal letters and appeals. However, this is not the ground for visa rejection. Technically, you cannot get married in the UK unless you have some sort of confirmed immigration status. Although the marriage law does not directly state this, and prior to 2004 there was no requirement as such under the immigration rules, you are expected to be "aware" that this is "against the law".

Ok, this is where it gets slighly complicated. My husband and I had a muslim marriage in a mosque in the UK. We had to have a muslim marriage in order to live together as we are not allowed under Islam to date each other outside of marriage or have any form of relationship outside of marriage. We had previous meetings prior to our marriage which were normally supervised by friends. We got to know each other during our meetings, developed strong feelings for each other and eventually decided to take the next step. However, I consulted a registrar in England regarding marrying an illegal immigrant. I was told that I could do a religious ceremony, however I could not register it because the marriage would not be valid under UK law because of his status. We were told that we would have to go to Pakistan and do the whole marriage again and register the marriage in his country. We have already had the marriage in Pakistan, provided the marriage certificates and photos of the wedding, however, once again, they were in the file which he left at home!!

When I went to register my sons birth today, I was told that the marriage in Pakistan is recognised as a valid marriage under UK law. The registrar stated on the birth certificate that me and my husband are married and my husbands name was included on the birth certificate as the father of the child.

How long have you lived together? You have not been married for long. WHat evidence have you provided on the length of your relationship? Have you provided any evidence that you are expecting a baby (I apologise, I cannot remember whether you already have a baby or only expecting)?

We lived together for a total of 7 months prior to going to Pakistan to submitt his application to the BHC. We submitted a letter (which was in the file left at home) that we stayed with a relative after marriage. Unfotunately, we cannot provide utility bills etc or any proof of living together because for one thing all the bills were in my husbands relatives name as we were living with him for 7 months and also how can we possibly prove that we lived together when we are living in someone else's house, all mail received was for the owner of the property. Will this be a problem?

Yes, I have submitted so much evidence regarding our baby. I have submitted a letter from my GP confirming the pregnancy, scan photos, scan reports from the hospital and most importantly, the birth certificate.

Knowingly being illegal is one thing, doing nothing about it is another, which is worse and can have repercussions in the future, in particular, in respect of applications for entry clearance where you should show that you intend to follow the rules.

Jeff, this worries me. So what are you saying here? Are you saying that this will affect his entry into the UK? On one hand you say that he should get his visa if all documentation is given, and on the other you are saying that not doing something about his status can have repercussions in the future, in particular, in resect of applications for entry clearance where you should show that you intend to follow the rules. This goes back to what I said before, the fact that he did not regularise his status has harmed his case in a sense because he did not regularise his stay, apply for asylum. The ECO has used this as a ground for refusal and god only knows how I am going to fight this ground. I can only say that he came to the UK when he was 17 so he was just a kid. But, he stayed here for 6 years, so he could have done something about his status later on. We won't have a leg to stand on when it comes to fighting this.

[rainbow24]

Jeff/John

When it comes to appeals, I understand that you can submitt evidence to the british high commisson within 28 days and they could reverse their decision, otherwise the next step would be a court hearing.

Can you tell me does a person have to go about filling out another application form again with the evidence attached and wait yet another 12 weeks for a decision or does the decision from the embassy come quicker when it comes to appealing (this is how long it took to receive a decision on our previous spouse visa application)

[jamalkhan]

hi rainbow

I am very much in the similar situation for my son and just wondering what was the final outcome for your reapplication or appeal

Thanks