Immigration Advisory Service - very good?

[DavidJ]

Hi,

After 'marrying' abroad and realising how difficult it can be I am considering using the IAS for a new application now I am in the UK and working again.

Any comments on their effectiveness? They seem good in the early contact stages.

I am bringing my 'wife' in on a fiancé visa to officially marry in the UK as it was easier to marry here in respect of getting all the necessary documents together.

It should be easy. Met woman, fell in love, extended stay to be sure. After 5 months got married in local ceremony. Booked wedding in UK, got documents, submitted application. Met with refusal based on absolutely appalling reasons and suspicion/prejudice/lack understanding of local culture etc. Cannot still believe what they distorted and took out of context to justify their decision, but know better now. Assume they (IND) are stupid and be ready to have written proof to counter any possible objection, no matter how far fetched.

Anyway, IAS good or independant solicitor?

I know I don't want to fail as the heartache for both of us after being wrenched apart is too much.


Regards,

David.

[John]

Booked wedding in UK, got documents, submitted application.

Could it be that the evidence you supplied was simply insufficient to prove that the various tests were passed?

If you want people on this Board to help then please post details of the evidence you supplied, and also details of the reasons for rejection of the visa application.

After 5 months got married in local ceremony.

Is that local ceremony recognised as a legal wedding in the country in which it took place? Or alternatively is it a "mere" religious ceremony not having any legal significance?

Which country are we talking about?

[DavidJ]

Sorry, I was just asking about the immigration advisory service really and didn't want to give too much away.

But, since you asked.

The country is Indonesia.

The reasons were intent, despite living together for nearly five months. No the religious ceremony had no legal significance, we were aware of that and that's why we chose fiance visa and had a provisional wedding booked in the UK and the documents sent by courier to present. (I hadn't planned to fall for someone!)

The refusal was because my fiance could not remember my parents home town, where we are to live. I work in London, the town is near London, and I always answered "London" when asked by all in Indonesia where I come from, as it was the easiest recogniseable place to say. Simple error but a stated reason for refusal.

The other intent refusal was because she was not apparently "excited about the wedding or involved in the wedding plans", as the officer would have expected of a young woman preparing for marriage. The fact that we had already been married under the most important, religious, ceremony in her home countr, where she was certainly excited and involved 100% with the arrangement, costumes, guests etc., was completely overlooked. Her answers in the interview "just civil ceremony signing papers" were teh clue as to why she wasn't excited, coupled with the fact I arranged everything as I am english. It's a registry office wedding. She has no guests to invite and wouldn't have a clue how to begin arranging a registry office wedding in the UK.

Also, I always told my fiance I was poor to avoid any chance of being seen as a honey trap. When asked what the house was like she said, apparently, "ugly and shabby" as she understood poor people's houses in her country. The refusal took hold of this and said they were not convinced of the suitability of the accomodation. What is sinister here is that when apologising for this error in the appeal (now withdrawn) she mentioned "When I said 'not clean' I meant....etc." and they have taken this historical reference and apology and taken the words 'not clean' *completely* out of context and incorrectly stated "The *fact* that the appeal states the house is 'not clean' gives serious doubts as to the suitability of the accomodation." I have had others read the appeal notes. In no way can the context be taken as such. It is, simply, wrong of the officer to draw such a conclusion.

I will say that I extended my stay on my overdraft and accept that they had a point regarding my income as there were no regular payments. Thus is now corrected as I am working again. I am self employed as an actor.

On this note, why would a representative of my government feel that a rural Indonesian with reasonable but limited English Language ever be able to know what productions an English Actor had been in? This was a question at the interview! Most English women outside of theatre would stuggle to remember Checkhov, Pinter, Ayckbourn etc. I gave her full marks for remembering Romeo & Juliet! What sort of questions are they to ask?

Frankly, after reading the interview notes, questions and reasons for refusal, I worry that anything we put to them will be accepted.

Their response to my not being interviewed was that there is a security threat and they have to restrict visitors to the building. Apparently a UK citizen who bothers to travel over half way across Java to Jakarta as sponsor to his fiance is a security threat. I don't accept it.

I am genuinely worried that, especially with the political climate and "too many immigrants" headlines that they will use any excuse and reason to reject her application.

Fo example, in the appeal notes they have taken my innocent comment "I am aware of my fiance's work status and our limited access to government resources." to say "This strongly suggests the sponsor intends using government funds in direct contravention of immigration rules". How can they make this assumption and serious allegation from my comment. Many people are aware of published, statutory limitations. Does this mean they intend to exceed them or break the law? No. I was just stating that I had read and understood the rules, and they make a serious allegation out of it. What am I to do?

I just want to do what's right to get my fiance over here and start my new life with her. We speak every day on the phone and the irony is this cost, with the new application costs and flying her back to Jakarta, reduce my bank levels and that could be held against me!

Sorry this is long, but any help os truly appreciated.

Regards,

David.

[John]

.... the appeal (now withdrawn) .....

So you are intending to submit a new application?

As regards the grounds of rejection, do ensure that any new application goes overboard in dealing with all of those matters. Also ensure that your wife remembers all those little details like the name of the actual town where she will be living.

Hope it all turns out well.

[DavidJ]

Yes. We are reapplying.

Thank you.

We will swamp them with documents. I just hope they don't dismiss them out of hand...

Regards,

David.

[DavidJ]

Yes. We are reapplying.

Thank you.

We will swamp them with documents. I just hope they don't dismiss them out of hand...

Regards,

David.

Just an update. I spent two months preparing the new application. It was an A4 full-size ring-binder folder, indexed with colour-coded and referenced pages, each section sub-divided, each document in a plastic wallet and labeled with the content.

It was a work of art. I even included certified translations of documents. I read up on immigration rules and used the IAS for advice.

They refused the new application. They refused using criteria they have been criticised for using by the Independant Monitor. They blatantly ignored evidence on the file.

A law firm in Jakarta recommended an appeal as, in their own words, the application was very good and they could do no better. They *turned down money* and recommended an appeal as they said immigration would just use "the same nonsense" for any new application.

This nightmare is still not over. They didn't even bother filing papers for the appeal - they just let it run the full six months. This is utter contempt for the law, our lives, and justice.

We now have a court date for late April! This from an application on 14th August 2006.

I have nothing but contempt for the staff at the Jakarta Embassy. They twisted the wording of the first application. They refused this with no grounds whatsoever. Why, we will probably never know.

I cannot believe that in such an important field for the lives of people a system exists where people can make decisions that have no basis in law or regulation and not be challenged or held accountable.

As a result of incompetence or prejudice, my wife and I (I refer to her as my wife as the religious marriage is the most important) have been seperated for a year now. I went to see her in October for a month, but we are still apart. Our lives are on hold, as are all our plans. The torment is unbearable.

If I did not have a daughter here from a previous marriage, I would be looking to emmigrate to Indonesia. Our plans, however, must essentially be here in the UK for at least another three years. My wife doesn't even want a UK passport! We will eventually live in Indonesia.

This whole process is a nightmare.

David.

[British]

They blatantly ignored evidence on the file.

Hmm... sorry about this question: But i am asking this out of my sympathy towards teh hard time that the UK consulate has been giving you: What is so so so so so beautiful and wonderful and [all nice words] that is there in Britain, that is more important to you than your relationship and being with your partner.

You have been away from your wife for several months just because the UK HO is giving you a hard time on a silly visa??

Is it even worth it???? What is so brilliant about this country that makes you keep on fighting with UK consulate to get a visa to bring your partner, than to setle down together somewhere where that govt. welcomes you!!!!!!

No hard feelings, but i really don't understand why the UK consulate / UK HO behaves brutally like this when dealing with visa applicants, especially after you have done a wonderful job in accumulating so much evidence for the application.

I am guessing that there must be an internal circular or something across UK consulates that says keep foreigners away form UK as much as you can, at any cost!

If that is the UK govt's attitude, i wonder why foreigners want to come to this country at all, in the first place?????

So are you going to re-apply now? So what new / incremental evidence is goin gto be there in your new application that was not already there?

I don't wish this - but what if this new process takes another couple of months and you have be away form your wife for that much of time?

Trust me, i will be asking the same questions to myself, if i was in your position.

I am married, and i can tell you that you are missing a great life by being away form your family for several months. Please don't do this.

Sorry for morally advising you here, but i cannot stand the idea of somebody being away from their spouse for months/years together, just becuase a stupid visa application is in their way.

Anyway, keeping aside that rant of mine , I do hope everything goes well in future for you both and my wishes for your wife/partner to join you soon... or much better, you joining her!

[DavidJ]

They blatantly ignored evidence on the file.

Hmm... sorry about this question: But i am asking this out of my sympathy towards teh hard time that the UK consulate has been giving you: What is so so so so so beautiful and wonderful and [all nice words] that is there in Britain, that is more important to you than your relationship and being with your partner.

You have been away from your wife for several months just because the UK HO is giving you a hard time on a silly visa??

Is it even worth it???? What is so brilliant about this country that makes you keep on fighting with UK consulate to get a visa to bring your partner, than to setle down together somewhere where that govt. welcomes you!!!!!!

Simple. I have a continuing and wonderful relationship with my daughter from my first marriage who needs me at aged thirteen and a half. She is just about to do her options at school. I left my wife, not my daughter.

If it were not so, I would be in Indonesia in a flash rather than put up with the torment of being apart from my wife.

No hard feelings, but i really don't understand why the UK consulate / UK HO behaves brutally like this when dealing with visa applicants, especially after you have done a wonderful job in accumulating so much evidence for the application.

I think I can understand, though it makes me more angry there is no automatic requirement to see spouses at interview. I am temporarily living again with my parents as I my rent was up for renewal just before I left for Indonesia. It was only meant to be for a couple of months. So, when I applied they see a 40 something bloke, who "still" lives with his parents, marrying a younger Indonesian woman.

They put me in the "cliche" pile and refuse to let me out. I turned up in Jakarta for this very reason, and tried to explain in the original sponsor letter. Had they interviewed me, they would clearly see I am no cliche, and why the relationship is genuine and very well considered. As it is, I am "Johnny no mates who can't get a girl" in their eyes, and they have given me no oppurtunity to counter this.

It hasn't entered their heads to consider that I may actually have more than my share of possible suitors in the UK, but that I may have found a genuine kindred spirit in another country. My wife is an amazing woman and not your typical introvert/shy wife that would be typical of a cliche "catch" for a lonely singleton from the UK. If she were, she wouldn't interest me as I am a strong character and would walk all over her.

Sorry to go on, but I lived with her for four months as husband and wife and worked hard to ensure the relationship had legs. I almost pushed her away through talking too much and taking her to task over our potetnial future. She is the real deal, and certainly not after me for money as she believes I am poor. (I'm not rich.) If she were after money, she could do a lot better and has told me so in no uncertain terms!

We want to get on with our lives, livein the UK while we plan our future and see what happens regarding my career. I have options in Asia, but cannot take them up until my daughter is old enough.

I could go on.....

[British]

I have a continuing and wonderful relationship with my daughter from my first marriage

OIC, then it all adds up well! Sorry, i did not realise that!

Hope everything will settle down soon for you guys! Best of luck!

[DavidJ]

I have a continuing and wonderful relationship with my daughter from my first marriage

OIC, then it all adds up well! Sorry, i did not realise that!

Hope everything will settle down soon for you guys! Best of luck!

Thank you.

I just wish they would:

1) Interview sponsors when they bother to turn up-especially overseas.
2) Have a quicker appeals response time.

That would help.

DavidJ.