Is it possible to travel with an Italian cedolino?

[fistfulofpixels]

Hi,

My husband and I have been baffled by our current situation. We've been living and working in Italy for just over a year now and are currently in the process of renewing our living permit (permesso di soggiorno). My husband is Dutch, and I am a non-EU citizen from Asia.

Long story short, the Italian immigration office is notorious for taking months in issuing the new living permits. Whereas this is not a problem for my husband, it poses a travel problem for me, as I need a valid living permit or visa to enter Italy and the Schengen states.

From my experience in working in the Netherlands, the Dutch government issues a temporary return visa for people whose living permits are still being processed, and this is valid for a maximum of 3 months and allows the individual to travel and re-enter Netherlands and the Schengen states. We cannot seem to find an Italian equivalent of this and have been told that there is no Italian equivalent.

The only thing we get from the immigration office is a slip of paper called the ricevuta (receipt) or cedolino (coupon). We've been told by police officers and overhearing lawyers at the immigration office that this cedolino cannnot be used for travel (except to my own country of origin).

The problem is that I have clients in the Netherlands and am required to travel to meetings for work. To have the process drag on for 6 months would be a disaster! I've become a prisoner in Italy.

Does anyone know if I can travel within the Schengen states, despite my living permit still being processed? I thought I read somewhere that my husband should travel with me, but I don't know if this is indeed the case (it's highly impractical, since he has a full-time job and has to work).

I'm thinking of calling the Dutch consulate here to ask if they can issue a visa for me (although I don't see how that's possible since I'm already IN a Schengen state).

Thanks so much in advance for all the advice you may give.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think it should not be a big deal. First though a couple of questions:

Are you in Italy presently?
What exactly is a permesso di soggiorno? Is it for the family member of an EU citizen? How often do you have to renew it?
How long have the Italian's been processing your application?
Do you have a photocopy of your application, of the passport and of your previous permesso di soggiorno?
Have you asked for the passport back while they continue to process the application and if so what was their response?

[Dawie]

I don't know the answer to your question suffice it to say that there is no immigration control between the Netherlands and Italy because they are both members of the Schengen agreement.

Therefore (in theory at least) you should be able to travel between the two countries without your passport being checked other than for identity purposes when checking in for your flight as it will effectively be treated like a domestic flight.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

... there is no immigration control between the Netherlands and Italy because they are both members of the Schengen agreement.

Therefore (in theory at least) you should be able to travel between the two countries without your passport being checked other than for identity purposes when checking in for your flight as it will effectively be treated like a domestic flight.

Nei-ja (No-Yes) as Germans might adorably say.

True, there is no regular official border control within the Schengen region. But various countries have the right to check ID, and the daily trains from Rome to Munich are often joined by the police who make a pass through checking ID of people who they decide to check.

I have never been check on a flight within Schengen. If you check in using one of the funny machines, they only want your credit card or your frequent flier card.

Frankly though, if the application is on the basis of European law, I do not see a problem getting the passport back until the Residence Card is ready to issue. But the original poster has not followed up with additional information, so it is a touch hard to say.

[Babsie]

Hi, I've travelled many a times by flights from Italy (i'm Italian) to other Shengen countries (Including the netherlands) and have also travelled by train within Eu countries.
Your passport will be checked. Mine is checked regularly without exceptions every time I travel to and back from ireland.
It was even checked when I went to Switzerland.
I am afraid a simple receipt from the police won't do.
Where abouts in Italy are you based?

[Dawie]

Hi, I've travelled many a times by flights from Italy (i'm Italian) to other Shengen countries (Including the netherlands) and have also travelled by train within Eu countries.
Your passport will be checked. Mine is checked regularly without exceptions every time I travel to and back from ireland.
It was even checked when I went to Switzerland.
I am afraid a simple receipt from the police won't do.
Where abouts in Italy are you based?

Babsie, I'm sure you're aware that Ireland and Switzerland are not members of the Schengen agreement and therefore there are full immigration checks between these countries and Italy.

Furthermore, a distinction needs to be made between checking a passport to confirm identity (which happens even on internal domestic flights) and checking a passport for immigration purposes (which happens on international flights).

[Babsie]

Sorry of course I picked the two wrong examples
All the same, if you are travelling back to Italy even from a Shengen country and you are asked for ID, the police will check that you have a valid permit and so on, to re-enter the country.
I dont travel on a passport within the Shengen area as I can just present my ID, but my husband, being non-eu for instance, has always been asked to present his. I might be wrong, but I wouldn't take a chance...

[fistfulofpixels]

I think it should not be a big deal. First though a couple of questions:

Are you in Italy presently?
What exactly is a permesso di soggiorno? Is it for the family member of an EU citizen? How often do you have to renew it?
How long have the Italian's been processing your application?
Do you have a photocopy of your application, of the passport and of your previous permesso di soggiorno?
Have you asked for the passport back while they continue to process the application and if so what was their response?

Sorry for not responding earlier. My answers:
1. Yes, we are both presently in Italy. We both have jobs here: legal working papers/contracts and tax numbers.

2. A permesso di soggiorno is a living permit, the equivalent to the Dutch verblijftvergunning and titre/carte de sejours, I suppose. The Italian permesso di soggiorno (PdiS) is issued to all foreigners living in Italy.

Our initial PdiS was for 1 year, because my husband's initial work contract was only for 1 year. Now that he has an unlimited/permanent contract, we both must renew our PdiS.

3. Due to some confusion on the renewal process, the Italians have only had our papers for 1 week now; they promise we will have our papers within 20 days of submitting the application, however I know people who have submitted since June and December 2006 and have not heard anything. We're just worried as the news have been reporting a terrible backlog on processing the PdiS applications; currently only 5000 have been delivered, with a backlog of 20 thousand.

4. Yes, we have a photocopy of the application, passports and our current PdiS.

What we are worried about is the tremendous backlog of applications. Also, the Italian government doesn't have the equivalent of a Dutch "temporary return visa".

The Dutch temporary return visa is a sticker that I was able to obtain from the Dutch IND (Immigration Office) which allows me to travel (leave NL+Schengen) if my new resident card is not ready and my old one has expired.

It makes sense that the cedolino/coupon of receipt of our PdiS renewal doesn't allow us to travel (because it's just a "receipt") but what I don't understand is why there is no "temporary return visa" available to foreign residents of Italy, while their renewal process is in progress.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

This discription of the Italian process almost makes it sound well organized and reasonable . I would expect that a renewal should be faster than an original application.

Sadly even worse situations exist: The Irish are taking 6-9 months to process their "EU1" applications, and family members can not travel during that time.

If your clients are in only the Netherlands, you could consider travelling there once escorted by your husband and then just living locallly until the Italian paper processing is done.

[fistfulofpixels]

Well, according to this news video, effective as of April 11 2007, for any Italian living permits, EU citizens must apply to the town hall/anagrafe. Non-EU family members of EU citizens must apply via the Questura.

Wonder if this applies for renewals, or just first-time permits