BRITISH REGISTRATION? SHENGEI VISA?

[Masterixas]

Hi guys it's a pleasure to be here and post in this forum:

I have a couple of questions to ask so I will try to be simple and short.

1) I did apply for an ILR (I'm an EEA national). I did apply on 15 Feb. 2007. When should I expect it to be granted (timetables) in case it will be approved and what any extra (if any) procedures I need to do in order to receive it.

2) If I get the ILR, my son who is now 6 months and who was born in the UK, can get registered as a British citizen. Does that means he can actually get a British Passport? If so how long it takes to his passport to be ready upon application? Which documents will be necessary for his passport application and how and where the quickest way to apply for it. Also what are the fees?

3) My wife is a non-EEA national married to me and living int he UK under the EEA residence permit. We want to visit Portugal on July 2007, and I would like to try to enter wihtout applying for a Shengei visa. What are the chances that imigration border will let her in under the Directive law? What should I take, what to say, and what number or place to call in case they will not let her in in order to pressure them?

I know it's a lot of questions, take your time and try to answer them the best you can since I really need them. Many thanks....

[JAJ]

1) I did apply for an ILR (I'm an EEA national). I did apply on 15 Feb. 2007. When should I expect it to be granted (timetables) in case it will be approved and what any extra (if any) procedures I need to do in order to receive it.

You actually became a Permanent Resident once you had been in the UK for 5 years, or on 30 April 2006 if later. The stamp is just evidence of Permanent Residence. The processing time for this is 6-8 months:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... unationals

Do you plan to apply for British citizenship by naturalisation? What EEA state are you from?

2) If I get the ILR, my son who is now 6 months and who was born in the UK, can get registered as a British citizen. Does that means he can actually get a British Passport?

YES! - but when did you come to the UK? If you were already in Britain for 5 years when he was born, then he may be a British citizen already.

3) My wife is a non-EEA national married to me and living int he UK under the EEA residence permit. We want to visit Portugal on July 2007, and I would like to try to enter wihtout applying for a Shengei visa. What are the chances that imigration border will let her in under the Directive law? What should I take, what to say, and what number or place to call in case they will not let her in in order to pressure them?

Will the airline even let her board the flight in the first place? What's her nationality?

[Masterixas]

Hi JAJ:
Ok I'm in the UK since 2000, so you are saying that I'm a permanet resident, but I still need to have the stamp oterwise I cannot make a british passport to my son, or can I do it now even without having the stamp from home office?

Yes I wish to apply in the future fot British citizenship, but that's not an immediate priority. I'm from Portugal by the way.

Yes I came to the UK oi September 2000 and my son was born in October 2006 so that's more than 6 years, but how can I ask British citizenship for him on those basis. I mean they will probably ask me for evidence of my 6 years here, which I assume is the permanent residency stamp, because I have no all my paperwork, like pay slips or P60 since 2000 too much paper to keep:)

About the shengei visa I don't know if the airline would let her in... I guess if I take all the info about the directive it could work since it's the law... but I guess it's a risk. Se is a Russian national but she has the resident permit in her passport.

The biggerst problem here is that I have tickets bought to July, 15th to go to portugal with my family but no passport for my son yet.... My wife shengei wouldn't be a problem since we can get that in a week or so, but my son's passport is the problem because the Portguese embassy asks us to do many stuff which will take long time if I wish to give him portuguese nationality also becasue we weren't married in portgual and just to register our marriage with the Portuguese authorities would take up to 5 months, so that's is a n option... giving him a Russian Russian citizenship will need approval from home office to enter and leave the UK and that will take 6 months... so the only way out I have is to get the ILR soon and then rush to his British passport, but I'm afraid I will need to wait a while for my ILR, but if I could make his passport now with no need of the stamp, that would be just perfect. Any ideas? Thanks

[Marco 72]

Yes I came to the UK oi September 2000 and my son was born in October 2006 so that's more than 6 years, but how can I ask British citizenship for him on those basis. I mean they will probably ask me for evidence of my 6 years here, which I assume is the permanent residency stamp, because I have no all my paperwork, like pay slips or P60 since 2000 too much paper to keep:)

How could you apply for an ILR stamp if you don't have these documents? Which documents did you include? In order to make a case for ILR you need evidence to back it up. Did you work or study since you came over? If so you should get letters from employers and schools, and use them to get your son registered as a British citizen using form MN1, which can be downloaded here. However, there's a snag: it seems that form MN1 requires you to include your son's (Portuguese) passport.

The biggerst problem here is that I have tickets bought to July, 15th to go to portugal with my family but no passport for my son yet....

Your best bet is probably to apply for a Portuguese passport for your son. In general it's a very bad idea to book tickets before you have your passports sorted out.

[JAJ]

How could you apply for an ILR stamp if you don't have these documents? Which documents did you include? In order to make a case for ILR you need evidence to back it up. Did you work or study since you came over? If so you should get letters from employers and schools, and use them to get your son registered as a British citizen using form MN1, which can be downloaded here. However, there's a snag: it seems that form MN1 requires you to include your son's (Portuguese) passport.

In fact, as he came to the UK in September 2000, he became a Permanent Resident on 30 April 2006. Therefore the son born in October 2006 is already a British citizen.

The problem is that the Passport Office may not understand this, so he needs to get a letter from the Home Office confirming that his son is a British citizen under the law. This can be used to apply for a British passport.

As regards form MN1, it's not needed but even if it was, they cannot demand to see a foreign passport. It would be illegal for them to refuse registration on this basis.

[Marco 72]

In fact, as he came to the UK in September 2000, he became a Permanent Resident on 30 April 2006. Therefore the son born in October 2006 is already a British citizen.

Sorry, you are right, of course.

The problem is that the Passport Office may not understand this, so he needs to get a letter from the Home Office confirming that his son is a British citizen under the law.

Where would such a request need to be sent?

[JAJ]

The problem is that the Passport Office may not understand this, so he needs to get a letter from the Home Office confirming that his son is a British citizen under the law.

Where would such a request need to be sent?

Home Office IND in Liverpool.

[Masterixas]

When I applied for the IRL I included my blue card resident permit which I asked when I arrived in the UK. That permit has start date Sep 2001 expire date Sep 2006, but of course I was waiting about 8 months to get it so they know I was here before Sep 2001. I also called Tax office and ask them to send me a letter with the ammount of money I have been paying of tax in this country and they sent me a letter with all years since 2001 till 2006, they did not include 2000 because they only cover 5 year gap. I also included recent employer letter and recent pay slips and also the expired resident permit as I said. When I applied for that permit in 2000 (which i didn't need but I thought maybe good to have it in case UK would back off the UE) I sent my ID not my passport, so I didn't get a stamp but instead a blue card.

So can i know if I can apply for a UK passport for my son now without ILR? Perhaps I can call the HO and ask them to send my expired resident card or I can show my tax letter to the passport office... What you guys think?

The problem is that the Passport Office may not understand this, so he needs to get a letter from the Home Office confirming that his son is a British citizen under the law. This can be used to apply for a British passport.

How can I ask such letter? where to call and what to say? Need light here

Yeah planning and buying tickets before having passports is not very smart, but I booked them on November 2006... I thought I had for sure enough time, but my government (Portuguese) is crap and make our lives harder instead of helping us...

Thanks guys for your help so far....

[John]

Home Office IND in Liverpool.

I appreciate this will take some getting used to but I think you mean :-

Home Office BIA in Liverpool.

[Marco 72]

When I applied for the IRL I included my blue card resident permit which I asked when I arrived in the UK.

You didn't apply for ILR, you applied for confirmation that you have ILR. You automatically obtained ILR on 30 April 2006, when the rules were changed. Before then one needed to make an application for it (as I did in 2005). I don't see any point in applying for the confirmation stamp, since it takes many months and it's much quicker for you to get British citizenship at this stage (it can take about four weeks if you apply through the NCS).

So can i know if I can apply for a UK passport for my son now without ILR? Perhaps I can call the HO and ask them to send my expired resident card or I can show my tax letter to the passport office... What you guys think?

You can try, but the Passport Office will probably refer you to the Home Office. Send a letter by special delivery to the Home Office at this address

Home Office IND
Managed Migration Directorate
Nationality Group
PO Box 12
Liverpool
L69 2UX

Include a certified copy of your passport, your son's birth certificate, letters from employers and the letter confirming the taxes you paid since 2001. You may also want to enclose your blue card, but that shouldn't be necessary. Write them that you obtained ILR on 30 April 2006 after five years of residence, as shown by the enclosed documents, and ask them to confirm that your son is a British citizen.

Don't lose your special delivery receipt, and once you get the letter from the Home Office put it in a very safe place. Then you can make an appointment with the Passport Office and get your son a British passport.

[Masterixas]

Thanks for the info I wasn't aware of all this legislations. The problem I see here is that the original documents such as letter from tax office, blue card etc. are at the HO together with the ILR application... What if i call the HO where I submitted my application and ask them to write that letter?Or perhaps to send the documents back? Also where can i get a certified copy of my passport?

Also how to make an appointment at the Passport Office? I don't know where they are located at.

You also said letters from employers, what if only my last employer because in that case I would need to visit every single one I worked with before and ask for a letter which would be tough:)

Thanks.

[JAJ]

Thanks for the info I wasn't aware of all this legislations. The problem I see here is that the original documents such as letter from tax office, blue card etc. are at the HO together with the ILR application... What if i call the HO where I submitted my application and ask them to write that letter?Or perhaps to send the documents back? Also where can i get a certified copy of my passport?

A solicitor or JP can make certified copies. If you want your documents back you should contact the Home Office:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... unationals

Also how to make an appointment at the Passport Office? I don't know where they are located at.

http://www.passports.gov.uk

You also said letters from employers, what if only my last employer because in that case I would need to visit every single one I worked with before and ask for a letter which would be tough:)

You need evidence you were working in this time period, or at least looking for work. Get as much evidence as you can. If you can't get letters from previous employers, you must still have your contracts of employment, payslips, bank statements showing salary deposits, appraisals etc?

You really haven't thrown out all these documents - have you?

[Masterixas]

Well I have trash it most of them, I do have only stuff from 2 years max. But the letter from the tax office shows I was working all that time and shows the taxes paid so I don't see the point of the pay slips or employers letters...

Thanks for the links.

[Marco 72]

Hopefully the Home Office will see it your way. In my case, the solicitor who helped me with my ILR application advised me to include both the letter from the tax office and letters from my previous and past employers. It shouldn't be too much of a problem to write to your past employers and ask for a letter confirming how long you worked for them.

You can also get certified copies of your passport from a public notary (click on the Find a Notary link).

Once you get the letter from the Home Office confirming your son's British citizenship, don't throw it away. It will be needed when applying for his passport and may be needed in the future as well, should he lose his passport for example.

[Masterixas]

So just to confirm before I send everything is the Home Office IND or BIA?

[John]

IND is no more ... it has died, or rather it has been eaten by the BIA .... the Border and Immigration Agency.

[Masterixas]

But same address only change IND for BIA right?

[Marco 72]

Regarding the supporting documents, you could also ask your bank for a bank statement going back several years. When I applied for ILR I got one from Barclays for 5 pounds.

[Masterixas]

Well I had account with barclays and Lloyds and also HSBC but I closed them.. only Natwest since 2005 so I think I can't get nothing from it.

Anyway I called Home Office yesterday and asked about the status of my ILR application that i made on February this year. He asked my reference number and after it he said my application is waiting consideration. I guess he meant my application is waiting a decision.... but my question is, if an application is not accepted do they send the decision straight away or it takes a long time as well? Is the "waiting consideration" a good sign or doesn't mean nothing immigration speaking?

[Marco 72]

That's the standard reply you may get for months until they decide. Again, you are not applying for ILR (which you already have) only for a stamp. This application is completely useless and may in fact complicate things for you. It won't show that your son is a British citizen, since he was born before the date of the stamp, and it may give the NCS the impression that you got ILR on that date, rather than on 30 April 2006. In that case they may ask you to wait for a year before you apply for British citizenship, whereas you would be eligible immediately. If I were you I would withdraw your application and apply for British citizenship instead.

[Masterixas]

But I heard that as long as I have ILR my son has the right to british citizenship. The only difference is that if he is born before the stamp he can be a citizen by naturalization if after the stamp he can be a citizen by registration, which I really don't get what it means. Anyway I'm ready to send the information for the Liverpool office to ask a letter that my son has british citizenship. Will that letter make a conflict with my other ILR process?

You said:

If I were you I would withdraw your application and apply for British citizenship instead.

But I must need some Home Office letter to confirm I have the right to British citizenship otherwise how can the passport office know that I'm here for all that time. Or if not which documents should I then take to the passport office to apply for my own passport?

[JAJ]

But I heard that as long as I have ILR my son has the right to british citizenship. The only difference is that if he is born before the stamp he can be a citizen by naturalization if after the stamp he can be a citizen by registration, which I really don't get what it means. Anyway I'm ready to send the information for the Liverpool office to ask a letter that my son has british citizenship. Will that letter make a conflict with my other ILR process?

You are completely confused.

Firstly, forget about ILR. You are not applying for that. You are applying for evidence of your Permanent Resident (PR-EEA) status under the EEA regulations.

PR-EEA is similar to ILR in terms of its rights but is not the same. It is automatically acquired, not based on an application. So if you started working in the UK in 2001, you automatically became a PR-EEA on 30 April 2006.

The stamp in your passport is just evidence of PR-EEA that you already have.

So as you became a PR on 30 April 2006, your son is already British as he was born in October.

If I were you I would withdraw your application and apply for British citizenship instead.

But I must need some Home Office letter to confirm I have the right to British citizenship otherwise how can the passport office know that I'm here for all that time. Or if not which documents should I then take to the passport office to apply for my own passport?

You will need a Certificate of Naturalisation to get a British passport for yourself.

But you can apply for naturalisation based on your PR-EEA status without having the stamp in your passport. The stamp is only really necessary for those who don't plan to go for naturalisation.

[Masterixas]

OK so how to get the certificate of naturalization? Same office in Liverpool? And what documents to inlcude?

Thanks

[Christophe]

OK so how to get the certificate of naturalization? Same office in Liverpool? And what documents to inlcude?

Thanks

That you need to apply for.

So, in summary:

- you already have permanent residence in the UK - your own current application is simply to get physical evidence of that status in the form of a stamp in your passport. However, you don't actually need this stamp - you have the status with or without the stamp

- your son, who was born in the UK to someone with permanent residence (i.e. you) is a British citizen and has been since his birth. He is therefore entitled to a British passport - he doesn't need to be either naturalised or registered as a British citizen. However, the point that was made in an earlier post was that the passport agency are not always aware of this regulation, so it might be prudent to get a letter from the BIA confirming your son's British citizenship. If you don't have that letter and you apply for his passport, the worst that can happen is that the application might be rejected: it won't cause a long-term problem

- for you to become a British citizen, you need to be naturalised - application forms and details about applying are on the BIA website (http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applying/nationality/). It is obviously not necessary for you to make your application before your planned trip, although there is no obvious reason to delay after that

[Masterixas]

Thanks for all of you guys comments on this matter. I will indeed ask for that letter at BIA and then apply for my son's passport. I will leave an update afterwards of the whole process for future reference for whosoever might be interested in this same matter.

Thanks