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Do I need a visa or not ?

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cruze72
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Do I need a visa or not ?

Post by cruze72 » Mon May 07, 2007 9:40 pm

Hi,

I am a UK citizen with permanent residency in Sweden. I am due to visit the US in July to attend a trade fair.

Normally, i wouldn't need a visa to do this however my problem is that when i lived in the uk in 2001, i was mistakenly arrested . In actual fact i was released after about 4 hours with charge. The whole episode seemed pretty casual on the police's behalf. They "bailed" me for 28 days but i was told i wasn't required to report to a police station. I ended up having to call them to find out what i should do next!!!

I know that i can get any records from the police under freedom of information act in order to then apply for a B-1 visa but my questions are:

1. how long does an arrest stay on record in the UK?
2. how detailed are the US immigration checks - will this arrest show up on their systems?

I am tempted to take a chance and fly without the visa as i begrudge paying the service fee to the police to get my information for their mistake, wait up to 40 days for them to send it to me and the then pay $100 to get a visa, as well as the train fare to and from the US embassy..... especially if i don't actually need it ......

Call me a skinflint but i would really like a second opinion ......

Thanks

Marco 72
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Re: Do I need a visa or not ?

Post by Marco 72 » Tue May 08, 2007 11:02 am

What offence was the arrest for? Depending on this, you may not need a visa.

US Immigration won't know about your conviction and they would most likely let you in. However, lying to US immigration would jeopardise your chances of emigrating or getting a visa to the US, in case you tried to do that in the future.

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Tue May 08, 2007 11:50 am

Thanks for your help!

You'll love this ..... the arrest was in conjunction with a "kidnap" investigation!!!! My fraudulent business partner was "kidnapped" by a very unhappy customer after he was conned out of £5000. Subsequently, i gave the police all the information i had and obviously pulled out of the business. I was never charged with anything and was only interviewed once. Once the police realised what my ex-partner was up to they pursued him instead!!!!

jjustyy
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Re: Do I need a visa or not ?

Post by jjustyy » Tue May 08, 2007 11:58 am

cruze72 wrote:In actual fact i was released after about 4 hours with charge.
Do you mean you weren't charged? Or were you charged and the charges were dropped?

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Tue May 08, 2007 12:01 pm

Never charged !!!!!

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Tue May 08, 2007 12:01 pm

Typo on my first post - sorry !

Marco 72
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Post by Marco 72 » Tue May 08, 2007 1:34 pm

Unfortunately it looks like you are not allowed to use the VWP. It's stupid, but those are the rules. As I said, no one will know about your conviction if you try to use the VWP, but if you do it may cause problems later, e.g. if one day you wanted to move to the US or if the UK decides to share its police records with US immigration. The arrest itself is no problem at all. Lying to US immigration would be the real issue. The visa waiver form states
Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?
If you answered "no" to this question, that would be a lie. I would recommend getting a tourist visa. Given the circumstances it should be no problem for you to get one. The visa is valid for ten years, and in some ways it's better than the VWP (once admitted, it allows you to stay for up to six months, and unlike the VW it can be renewed). For British citizens who qualify for the VWP it's usually very difficult to get a tourist visa, but in your case you have the perfect excuse...

John
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Post by John » Tue May 08, 2007 2:18 pm

If you answered "no" to this question, that would be a lie.
Would it? Having read the facts as laid out in this topic it seems to me that the correct answer would be "no".
John

Marco 72
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Post by Marco 72 » Tue May 08, 2007 3:13 pm

The I-94W form says "Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude [...]". Kidnapping is a CIMT. He wasn't charged, but the form doesn't mention charges, only being arrested. In addition, there is a Visa Waiver Wizard at the US Embassy website. Somewhat confusingly, it mentions that if you have been arrested for anything more serious than a traffic violation (not just a CIMT) you are not eligible for the VWP. I don't know if this is a new US government policy and the I-94W forms have not been updated, or if the US Embassy site is wrong on this.

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Tue May 08, 2007 5:00 pm

Thanks for your help on this ...... there does seem to be a bit of grey area here about arrest/charge/conviction.

I'm going to try to contact the embassy to ask for a clarification. Will post my reply when i find out .......

Cheers

onedah
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Post by onedah » Thu May 17, 2007 11:44 am

HI Cruze72,

Did you manage to get any information from the US embassy on this?

I am in a simualr suituation and not sure what to do?

Thanks
O

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Thu May 17, 2007 11:53 am

Not yet i'm afraid ....... The US embassy phone lines here in Sweden are almost always engaged.

I sent an email to the local police force in the UK last week ..... and as yet have had no reply...... no surprise there really!

I have decided that the quickest course of action will be to apply for a copy of my history on the national police computers under the freedom of information act which means the police have to reply within 40 days. You can get the form downloaded from your local forces' website (or where the arrest took place) . It costs £10 unless you are applying from abroad in which case you will need an international bankers draft where the issuing bank will spank you hard with a fee for the privelege.

I will post any progress .... luckily i don't need to travel until mid July so have a bit of time to spare.

Hope this helps

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Thu May 17, 2007 11:55 am

PS The question of arrest or charge is the key here as almost every website/phone helpline has contradicting information ....... i guess this would be due to the information not always being updated in a timely fashion.

onedah
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Post by onedah » Thu May 17, 2007 12:15 pm

I have managed to get a copy of my personal record from the Police (Subject access report) and it shows that I was arrested for charge of theft in 2005 and found NOT guilty by a jury in crown court.

My problem is that I am travelling to the US in Mid June for my brother-in-laws wedding, and not sure if this arrest constitute a crime involving moral turpitude even if I was found not guilty?

My understanding is that if I apply for the Visa it could take more than 4 weeks which I don't have.

I did travel to the US last year and ticked No on the question of arrest as I did not think I needed to tick yes because I was found not guilty however doing the research this time round I may have answered the question incorrectly.

My other problem is that I am applying for a Company transfer later in the year from UK to US on a L1 Visa. I don't want this to mess up my chance of getting a L1 Visa. I know I need to tick yes to the arrest question on the L1 form but it is phased differently.

Thanks
Onedah

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Thu May 17, 2007 12:24 pm

Yeah .... moral dilemma time ...... tick no and get in this time but jeopardise your L1 later in the year ........ however you have already ticked "no" once on your trip last year so maybe it's already jeopardised???

Sorry i can't help ...... bludy frustrating state of affairs.

I am very tempted to tick no on my I-94 and take the chance (i wasn't even charged with anything).

onedah
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Post by onedah » Thu May 17, 2007 12:28 pm

I found this on:-

"http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/vi ... rview.html"

You may decide to apply asap for you Visa:-
How long will my application take to process?

Routine visa applications take approximately 5 workdays to process from the date of the visa interview.

Applicants who are advised at the visa interview that their application requires additional administrative processing should allow at least 60 days for this stage of the application to be completed. Applicants who tick yes to question 38 on the visa application form DS-156 can expect to wait a minimum of eight weeks before being advised of the outcome of their application.
So Could I have totally jeopdised my chances by ticking no, will this mean they will refuse my L1? :-(

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Thu May 17, 2007 12:32 pm

This is one advantage i have ..... i have permanent residency in sweden and the visa waiting times over here are only a week or so ...... lucky me!

Marco 72
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Post by Marco 72 » Thu May 17, 2007 12:33 pm

Sorry, but theft is considered a crime of moral turpitude, and if you have been arrested for a CIMT you cannot use the visa waiver program. The form says very clearly "Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime (etc etc)". Of course the US immigration officers aren't going to know about your arrest, but 'lying' on the visa waiver form can make things difficult for you later on if you apply for a US visa. Since you have already done it and you plan to apply for a US visa, it might be a good idea for you to contact a US immigration attorney.

Marco 72
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Post by Marco 72 » Thu May 17, 2007 1:20 pm

In any case, it might be a good idea for you to apply for a tourist visa before your next visit to the US.

onedah
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Post by onedah » Thu May 17, 2007 1:25 pm

Th eproblem I have is that I am travelling on the 14th of June and as per the US Embassy site if I tick Yes to Question 38 which relates to previous arrests I would have to wait at least 8 weeks for a reply.

I am totally confused on what to do.....

Will this mean I will not get my L1 as well? Do I risk and go on the VWP again or not go at all and miss the wedding and let every one know why I missed the wedding...

onedah
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Post by onedah » Thu May 17, 2007 2:18 pm

Just contacted the US embassy and I can't get an appointment until 28th of June so it's either go on the 14th and tick no or don't go and then I would have only given the wrong information once if that makes it any better(Probably not).

Marco 72
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Post by Marco 72 » Thu May 17, 2007 3:55 pm

You may want to contact a UK-based US immigration attorney. I found these guys on Google. I don't know anything about them, but they might be able to give you some advice.

http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/

cruze72
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Post by cruze72 » Thu May 17, 2007 4:26 pm

Thanks Marco ...... This link is a good source of information and digging around there is what looks like a definitive answer ....... this concerns the visa waiver program .....

http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article6.htm

"3. Personal History

Even if your passport and planned activities in the US qualify for the VWP, you will be ineligible to use the program if any of the following is true:

1. You ever violated the terms of the VWP, such as overstaying on a previous entry;
2. You were ever removed or deported from the US;
3. You are inadmissible to the United States for any of a variety of reasons, including but not limited to
1. You have a communicable disease of public health significance (e.g., HIV/AIDS); or
2. You have been convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude or a controlled substance violation (there are exceptions).

If any of these statements is true you must obtain a visa before traveling to the United States. Also, ‘yes’ answers to any of the questions on the reverse of the I-94W will lead to increased questioning at the port of entry, although they may not of themselves disqualify you from using the VWP. The U.S. Embassy, London advises on its web site that anyone who has ever been arrested must apply for a visa. On this topic you may wish to check the Embassy’s Visa Waiver Wizard.

Finally, remember: If you cannot use the VWP, all is not lost. B1/B2 visitor visas for UK citizens can be valid for multiple entries and for up to 10 years. Even if an immigration or criminal law violation makes you ineligible for a visa, waivers of ineligibility are often available. In such cases, too complex to be treated in this brief article, the legal advice of a qualified US immigration lawyer should be sought. For information on ineligibilities and waivers of ineligibilities, see our article "

and then the further article quotes the Immigration & Nationalities Act #212 for ineligibility for a visa application

http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/article7.htm

" 2. Criminal and Related Grounds:

Excludable on criminal and related grounds are the following:

1. Aliens convicted of, and those who admit having committed either
1. A crime involving moral turpitude (or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or
2. A violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation relating to a controlled substance.

Exceptions: an alien will not be ineligible for a visa if the alien committed only one crime involving moral turpitude and if
1. the crime was committed when the alien was under the age of 18 and the crime was committed (and the alien was released from any confinement imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or admission to the U.S., or
2. the maximum penalty possible for the crime did not exceed imprisonment for 1 year, and if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months.
2. Aliens convicted of two or more offences who are sentenced to confinement of 5 years or more;
3. Controlled substance traffickers;
4. Prostitutes and procurers of prostitutes, and aliens coming to engage in any other unlawful commercialised vice;
5. Aliens engaged in trafficking in persons; and
6. Aliens engaged in money laundering.
"

So it looks like both me and onedah could say NO on the I94 and not apply for a visa at this time but we are a) running the risk of being refused and b) probably jeopardising any future visa application :?

onedah
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Post by onedah » Thu May 17, 2007 5:05 pm

Thanks for the info Macro / cruze72 for all the inforamtion.

I am so confused on how to proceed with this.

-If I don't go on the 14th my Brother -in-law loses his best man and Ii would have to explain to all the family why I cancelled 4 weeks before.

-If I do go then I will lose my chance of getting to the US on a L1 visa.

I can feel a few sleepless nights coming!

John
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Post by John » Thu May 17, 2007 5:10 pm

2. You have been convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude .....
As I understand it, he has not been convicted of such a crime! He was merely arrested and questioned, but never charged.

So on that basis, is there a problem here?
John

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