Bulgarian female seeking eventual ILR

shapogataar · Post by **shapogataar** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:38 pm

Hello, I am hoping someone can help me with my enquiry..

I am from Bulgaria and living in the UK since December 2006 when I entered the Uk on a marriage visa. I have lived in the UK previously for two years on au pair visas from August 2004 til August 2006, and stayed here for the full two years during that time.

I married a British man in March of this year, but he has to move up north to look after his father who needs full time care and we won't be able to stay together in the marital home as we rent it, and cannot afford to keep it on.

I am thinking of staying in the town where we are living now, and renting a room here, as I have a good job and plan to visit my husband when I can. It will be hard but I don't want to give up my job and he understands this.

What I am worried about is how this will affect my application for ILR after we have been married for two years. Will it be important to show that we are living together or will they accept we had to live apart due to family commitments?

I have my Registration Certificate which grants me full access to the labour market here and I am working full time.

Can I apply for ILR now on the basis of me living in the UK for two years already as an au pair?

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give us.

Thanks

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:47 pm

I'm confused...you say entered the UK in December 2006 on a marriage visa, but then you say you got married in March this year. Do you mean a fiance visa?

And if you do mean a fiance visa, can you explain why you used a fiance visa to enter the UK in December when you could have just waited another month and entered the UK without ANY visa after Bulgaria joined the EU in January?

shapogataar · Post by **shapogataar** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:55 pm

Hello,

thanks for your reply. yes sorry, I meant a fiance visa. Yes, we didn't realise at the time that we would not need the visa after january 2007, but we wanted to be together and spent Â£300 getting the visa which we rather regret now.

However, what is done is done. What do you feel my best options are now?

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:13 pm

shapogataar wrote:What I am worried about is how this will affect my application for ILR after we have been married for two years

I have my Registration Certificate which grants me full access to the labour market here and I am working full time

Clearly there is conflict of information over here. If you have a Registration Certificate, then you will have to wait for 5 years to be eligible for ILR/PR (Permanent Residence). What form did you apply with after your marriage?- the BR1 or the FLR(M)?

Your best option clearly is to use the "Ppron method" and get naturalised as a British citizen in another 3 months time.

tasha75 · Post by **tasha75** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:08 pm

Does your husband also writes on this forum? http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=15631
Same dates different stories

shapogataar · Post by **shapogataar** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:04 pm

Docterror wrote:
shapogataar wrote: What form did you apply with after your marriage?- the BR1 or the FLR(M)?
.

I applied to the BR1 form... can i still use the Ppron method and apply for naturalisation?

Tasha, yes that is very strange about the dates on the other post. Nothing to do with us!!

thanks

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:14 pm

Have to agree with tasha75 that the nationality and dates are eirily familiar with the other post in question. But handing you the benefit of the doubt...

Since you used the BR1, you cannot apply for the ILR after 2 years as you are not on a spouse visa. Time spend on Registration Certificate and the aupair should still be eligible for the "Ppron method" naturalisation though.

shapogataar · Post by **shapogataar** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:19 pm

Docterror wrote:Time spend on Registration Certificate and the aupair should still be eligible for the "Ppron method" naturalisation though.

oh right thanks for that information. Will the 2 years I have spent as an au pair count for the ppron metod?

I have been reading about this and it says I have to go to another embassy in another country to apply... why is this so? will my husband have to come to? will somewhere like France be OK?

so, I have to wait until I have been hear 12 months after december 2006 and use my 2 years as an au pair and 12 months as married as the 3 years?

what confuses me is the question about permenant residency. Looking on the internet ILR is also called permenant residency. Because I am from Bulgaria I have right to live in the UK and now I married, and have a registration certificate as long as I am married do I have permemant residency? I think I can only stay for two years and then apply for FLR.

So, I am worried that i cannot apply for naturalistaion using ppron method as i do not have permenant residency?

Thank you for your kind help

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Thu May 24, 2007 7:32 am

shapogataar wrote:Because I am from Bulgaria I have right to live in the UK and now I married, and have a registration certificate as long as I am married do I have permemant residency?

Not yet. You have to stay for 5 years on the Registration Certificate to obtain your PR(Permanent Residence). Now that you have an idea about what to do, pls search and read a bit more to get the entire picture.

I think I can only stay for two years and then apply for FLR.

You lost me there. What do you mean?

So, I am worried that i cannot apply for naturalistaion using ppron method as i do not have permenant residency?

I have been reading about this and it says I have to go to another embassy in another country to apply... why is this so?

The "ppron method" is a bit complicated and is designed to go through the "loophole" of having to hold ILR/PR for getting naturalised as a British citizen. It is a bit complicated and if you are not interested enough to get a clear grip on the procedures, please wait to get the 5 years under the BR1 to get the PR and subsequent naturalisation.

shapogataar · Post by **shapogataar** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:44 am

Docterror wrote:
You lost me there. What do you mean?

I meant that I was thinking about the problem with permeant residency, as I am sure that to use the ppron method i would have to have ILR/PR status and that the only way I can use this method is to have either of those...but maybe I am wrong?

Docterror wrote: The "ppron method" is a bit complicated and is designed to go through the "loophole" of having to hold ILR/PR for getting naturalised as a British citizen. It is a bit complicated and if you are not interested enough to get a clear grip on the procedures, please wait to get the 5 years under the BR1 to get the PR and subsequent naturalisation.

I am very interested in this method and will try and work it out... what I am seeing from research is that I will meet the criteria in a few months, based on the fact that I am:

a: married to a UK citizen
b: have no restrictions on my stay here
c: will have 3 years residence in UK
d: I have not been out of the country for more than 270 days in last 3 years

Of course i undertand that it is a gamble and will cost a lot of money to apply and take my citizenship ceremoney..

But I guess it is worth a try. Thank you very much for your help.

shapogataar · Post by **shapogataar** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:53 am

shapogataar wrote:
Docterror wrote:
You lost me there. What do you mean?

http://www.entryclearance.com/index2.ph ... lisationsp

This says here that:

'The '3 year rule' is on the basis of being married to a British citizen and holding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)'

This is why i am confused...

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:45 am

'The '3 year rule' is on the basis of being married to a British citizen and holding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)'

This is the general route. But paul/ppron747 figured out a brilliant way to get around the need to hold ILR before applying for naturalisation. His thoughts on the way he used to device the route is chronicled in the last post here.

This idea was then taken up by 'ftgpmb' who successfully applied for the naturalisation in the British embassy in Ireland without having held ILR/PR as shown here.

So, if you take the time and patience and become thourogh enough to get used to the process of Naturalisation and the ppron method, you should be able to apply using the method in some month's time. It is shorter than the wait for your PR and cheaper than the application for ILR for anyone on the spouse visa.

Marco 72 · Post by **Marco 72** » Thu May 24, 2007 12:49 pm

shapogataar wrote:This says here that:

'The '3 year rule' is on the basis of being married to a British citizen and holding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)'

The website is not 100% correct. The law states you must be "free from immigration restrictions". Having ILR is just one way of being free from immigration restrictions. Other ways include: having the Right of Abode, being an Irish citizen or simply being out of the UK.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Thu May 24, 2007 1:02 pm

Marco 72 wrote:
shapogataar wrote:This says here that:

'The '3 year rule' is on the basis of being married to a British citizen and holding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)'
The website is not 100% correct. The law states you must be "free from immigration restrictions". Having ILR is just one way of being free from immigration restrictions. Other ways include: having the Right of Abode, being an Irish citizen or simply being out of the UK.

So, if someone has stayed here on WP or SV and has clocked the magical five years residency condition, they can apply at a post abroad for naturalisation init?

Marco 72 · Post by **Marco 72** » Thu May 24, 2007 1:29 pm

jes2jes wrote:o, if someone has stayed here on WP or SV and has clocked the magical five years residency condition, they can apply at a post abroad for naturalisation init?

No, because if you are not married to a British citizen you are required to have had this status for one year before applying. If you have been out of the UK for the previous year you won't meet the residence requirements. Spouses of British citizens on the other hand only need to be free from immigration restrictions on the day they apply. So the "Ppron method" can only be used by someone who is married to a BC.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:01 pm

Marco 72 wrote:
jes2jes wrote:o, if someone has stayed here on WP or SV and has clocked the magical five years residency condition, they can apply at a post abroad for naturalisation init?
No, because if you are not married to a British citizen you are required to have had this status for one year before applying. If you have been out of the UK for the previous year you won't meet the residence requirements. Spouses of British citizens on the other hand only need to be free from immigration restrictions on the day they apply. So the "Ppron method" can only be used by someone who is married to a BC.

Was just taking the mick mate! But a person if possible won't be away for a year to apply if there was something like that. They would apply immediately they are out.

shapogataar · Post by **shapogataar** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:04 am

Thank you very much for your help. Guess I should just wait patiently then....

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sun May 27, 2007 5:10 pm

The 'ppron method' sounds interesting...more than anything else, it might help save over Â£1000 in H/O charges..Has anyone had any 1st hand experience of it? It may sound plausible but is it doable?

Also, there is no mention of Naturalisation applications or the fee for such applications on the British High Commission website in Ireland. Should I just ring them up & find out?

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sun May 27, 2007 6:15 pm

Docterror wrote:
'The '3 year rule' is on the basis of being married to a British citizen and holding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)'
This is the general route. But paul/ppron747 figured out a brilliant way to get around the need to hold ILR before applying for naturalisation. His thoughts on the way he used to device the route is chronicled in the last post here.

This idea was then taken up by 'ftgpmb' who successfully applied for the naturalisation in the British embassy in Ireland without having held ILR/PR as shown here.

So, if you take the time and patience and become thourogh enough to get used to the process of Naturalisation and the ppron method, you should be able to apply using the method in some month's time. It is shorter than the wait for your PR and cheaper than the application for ILR for anyone on the spouse visa.

Dr Terror, I am seriously considering going down the ppron route but it says on section 5 of the naturalisation form that one needs to provide proof that one is free from immigration time restrictions which may be an ILR stamp on one's passport or a letter from the home office giving permission to stay in the UK permanently (I also mentions that evidence of being 'freely landed' (whatever that means) is also acceptable)

Now, if I make an application using the ppron method,how would I provide this vital piece of evidence. I did read the bit in the Nationality Act which states that not being present in the country frees you from immigration restrictions (which is a bit obvious, I would have thought) but are we quoting it out of context? It goes on to say that people who are on temporary admission (i.e. people having limited leave to remian?) cannot be considered as free from immigration time restrcitions. Would it be an good idea to ring the British Embassy in Dublin & clarify this? (or would it alert them to this 'loophole'?)

Post by **JAJ** » Sun May 27, 2007 6:57 pm

thirdwave wrote: Dr Terror, I am seriously considering going down the ppron route but it says on section 5 of the naturalisation form that one needs to provide proof that one is free from immigration time restrictions which may be an ILR stamp on one's passport or a letter from the home office giving permission to stay in the UK permanently (I also mentions that evidence of being 'freely landed' (whatever that means) is also acceptable)

If you are not in the UK you are also free of immigration restrictions. The Nationality Instructions make this clear.

Seriously - the ppron method is do-able but it does require a lot of research on your part to get it right. You need to know the law inside out as most of the people in the Embassies and Home Office don't.

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Sun May 27, 2007 7:10 pm

JAJ wrote:
thirdwave wrote: Dr Terror, I am seriously considering going down the ppron route but it says on section 5 of the naturalisation form that one needs to provide proof that one is free from immigration time restrictions which may be an ILR stamp on one's passport or a letter from the home office giving permission to stay in the UK permanently (I also mentions that evidence of being 'freely landed' (whatever that means) is also acceptable)
If you are not in the UK you are also free of immigration restrictions. The Nationality Instructions make this clear.

Seriously - the ppron method is do-able but it does require a lot of research on your part to get it right. You need to know the law inside out as most of the people in the Embassies and Home Office don't.

I have emailed the British Embassy notifying them about my intentions to submit an application..Will update you when I hear back from them

Post by **JAJ** » Sun May 27, 2007 10:31 pm

thirdwave wrote:I have emailed the British Embassy notifying them about my intentions to submit an application..Will update you when I hear back from them

Don't be surprised if they have no clue what you are asking about.

If you are going to use the ppron method you need to do your own research and while you do need to arrange things with an Embassy in advance, you need to understand the British Nationality Regulations quite well.

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:39 am

Presumably there is a precedent to this sort of thing as someone has already managed to successfully use this route, through the British Embassy in Dublin (judging from a previous post)

Also, what sort of research would you suggest I do before trying to lodge my application? I have been through the Nationality Act 1981 & other bits of info that ppron had mentioned in his original post. Is anyone aware of any case law in relation to this issue? It is fairly obvious that this option is primarily meant for spouses of British personnel stationed abroad & the problem lies in the semantics i.e. can we exploit the way the law is worded, which does not necessarily reflect the 'spirit' of that piece of legislation?

thirdwave · Post by **thirdwave** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:21 am

Update on my efforts to use the 'pporn' route:

Looks like the embassy staff in Dublin are pretty clued in to the whole situation.I emailed the British Embassy in Dublin last night about submitting an application & received a response first thing this morning asking me where I reside at present. I have replied that I live in the UK but my understanding of the current legislation is that I am allowed to make an application in Ireland as long as I am in the country on the date of application.

Waiting for the embassy's response.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:16 am

thirdwave, anything to update about your efforts to use the "ppron method"?

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