Spouse visa- advice needed!

butterfly · Post by **butterfly** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:35 pm

Hi
I am married to an indian citizen who has been living an working in UK for 5 yrs, for 2 yrs he has had a spouse visa as I am a british citizen. I wish to know what will hapen if i refuse to sign the next form (set m)? Even though we are still married I am no longer keen for him to get visa through me. Please advise what will happen to his visa, and what will be the next route he will have to take???
Many thanks

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:14 pm

butterfly wrote:Hi
I am married to an indian citizen who has been living an working in UK for 5 yrs, for 2 yrs he has had a spouse visa as I am a british citizen. I wish to know what will hapen if i refuse to sign the next form (set m)? Even though we are still married I am no longer keen for him to get visa through me. Please advise what will happen to his visa, and what will be the next route he will have to take???
Many thanks

Any reason why you don't want to sign? I mean, you don't need to tell us everything, but can you explain why you have doubts? Is it because it was/is a marriage of convenience, or you no longer wish to live together?

In the end it is totally up to you, and him, I guess. If you refuse to sign or provide documents to support the applicaiton, then he will either have to extend his visa one way or another, become an overstayer, or return home. I wouldn't do anything if you feel pressured or unsure, but certainly talk things through, if that might help? At the end, though, you do have the right to refuse, there's no binding obligation on your part to sign it.

butterfly · Post by **butterfly** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:19 pm

no it was nothing like that, but we have a rocky marriage, a few mnths on if it ends badly i dont want to feel like i was 'used' to help speed up his visa and assist in settling other members of his family here too while i get 'dumped' so to speak.
On the other hand I would like to know whether he ends up 'back at square one' and has to do the work permit route from the start or will they take into consideration the yrs he's been here or anything???

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:44 pm

without the benefit of your help, I think the person is actually put herself at a disadvantage. I dont think working based on spouse visa will fulfill the 5 year requirement based on a work permit. So in a sense, she hurt herself by making herself dependent on you. She probably would have to work on her own merit for another 5 years before getting ILR or residency. I think under the circumstance as she worked here 3 years prior before changing her status to spouse visa, I wouldn't consider yourself being used

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:51 pm

SYH wrote:without the benefit of your help, I think the person is actually put herself at a disadvantage. I dont think working based on spouse visa will fulfill the 5 year requirement based on a work permit. So in a sense, she hurt herself by making herself dependent on you. She probably would have to work on her own merit for another 5 years before getting ILR or residency. I think understand the circumstance as she worked here 3 years prior before changing her status to spouse visa, I wouldn't consider yourself being used

From what I understood the author of this post is a British lady and her husband is an Indian man.

Yes, you have the full right to refuse to sign if you believe your marriage is no longer subsisting and your relationship came to an end.
However, to be fair on another party, I would discuss this situation with him, discuss the state of your relationship and your concerns and let him know what you propose to do.
One thing you should never do is to use immigration laws as a tool for revenge on your spouse. If your relationship's breakdown is inevitable (which I do not of course wish you to happen), you are still his sponsor in this country and have responsibilities for him. So you have to ensure you both go your own ways without doing any harm to another.

butterfly · Post by **butterfly** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:11 pm

might i reply that i am not sponsering my husband, he was here and working on a work permit renewd every 6 mnths, after marriage this was changed to a spouse visa. Whilst i agree that i should not use this as a tool, i also feel like i am being 'used' to speed up the settlement of him AND his family, while i am treated with no respect. Had the marriage been settled and normal then maybe this wouldnt even seem an issue?

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:15 pm

Hey then don't sign if you feel that way
From what I see, he was already working and he didn't speed up his settlement by switiching to the spouse visa, in fact, it complicated things for him.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:33 pm

It appears that your husband can apply for British Citizenship immediately without having to apply on form SET M (ILR).

This can be done via the ppron method on the basis that he is married to a British Citizen (which he will continue be until the decree absolute comes through) and on the basis that he has lawfully lived in the UK for at least 3 years.

I understand your frustration with him and you not wanting to support his applications but you should really try and consider other means of getting back at him if you have to. It is not up to you to decide whether he should continue living here, this is for the UK Govt.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:41 pm

butterfly wrote: this was changed to a spouse visa.

That means that you are his sponsor in this country in an immigration sense, i.e. his status depends on you and your relationship. Once he obtains leave to remain in his own right in another immigration category or obtains ILR/citizenship, he will not be dependent on you any more and you will cease being his sponsor.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:02 pm

That is what he is up to, ILR so ...

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:17 pm

butterfly wrote:no it was nothing like that, but we have a rocky marriage, a few mnths on if it ends badly i dont want to feel like i was 'used' to help speed up his visa and assist in settling other members of his family here too while i get 'dumped' so to speak.
On the other hand I would like to know whether he ends up 'back at square one' and has to do the work permit route from the start or will they take into consideration the yrs he's been here or anything???

What other family members are here? Or will be brought here by him? If it sounds too much like a 'chain migration' plan, you should indeed be careful of not being used. That being said, I can only suggest you speak to him on a one-to-one, not necessarily about the 'chain migration' (which isn't very easy here anyway, not like the US), but about your marriage and whether you feel it will subsist after ILR/BC.

If I can make a suggestion; a signature is a representation of you agreeing to something, so you should be careful of signing if you don't (fully) agree or support the application. Don't not sign it out of spite, because it might just backfire on you, but you should think about your future (with him) and whether or not you want to support his application with your signature/documents. I can agree somewhat with smit, but I don't think it is right, if you feel like you're being used (and you have some evidence/reason to believe that is so), to simply put that aside and sign the documents as if everything is okay, just so he can stay. I don't agree with "sign and then divorce" attitudes, basically. If he was here on a WP before, then if all else fails, he can return on a WP or HSMP.

That is my .2 pennies in.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:19 pm

There is no backfire for her to not sign it (unless you are talking about karma) but I don't see how she is responsible for him under ILR.
Once HO approves of his ILR she is not sponsoring him anymore as far as I can see.

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:08 am

SYH wrote:There is no backfire for her to not sign it (unless you are talking about karma) but I don't see how she is responsible for him under ILR.
Once HO approves of his ILR she is not sponsoring him anymore as far as I can see.

Backfire = if she was trying to kick him out of the country by refusing to sign, but he might actually be able to apply to stay under another category, so all her conniving makes her look the fool.

Whichever way, I simply don't think this "just sign it and leave him be" attitude is right. Yes, once he has ILR, she is not sponsoring him (I didn't mean that anyway), but, she is currently his sponsor and so has to decide whether or not to continue up until the point of ILR, and it is entirely in her right to refuse to sign, in my opinion - as long as it is a valid reason and not out of spite. I don't want to push her, or anyone else, to sign it as if it is nothing, just because he should be allowed to stay or whatever. We don't know the whole story, which is why I suggested they have a one-to-one before she makes up her mind.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:17 am

All I am saying sakura, is that if she doesn't sign out of spite, that's as good as reason as any. There is no affirmative duty for her to sign or to not sign because the marriage isn't working or being used. And I don't think she cares if she looks foolish as a basis to sign or not sign either.
The only thing I gleam from her question is an honest desire to understand the ramification of his standing if she doesn't sign and her liability. I see no liability if she signs but I do see the guy being adversely impacted if she doesn't. If it's just based on these two issues without her feelings and emotions, then she should sign but she feels jipped so she probably won't and I would completely understand if she didn't

Mini · Post by **Mini** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:43 am

If he was here for 3 yrs on a WP before you married is there a reason why you think you are being used ? In fact, he's made himself vulnerable by switching.

Also, it is not possible to get one's family here and settle them all just because one has an ILR. Its not as simple as that.

butterfly · Post by **butterfly** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:57 pm

helo all, thanks for ur messages. Basically i know this sounds a little confused and weird BUT i have no intention on divorce and wish to stay married to my husband. HOWEVER i am not comfortable signing this form because i feel in some ways i am being treated with no respect and being forced to do everything he wants and this will give him a fast route to becoming a british citizen with all the benefits and priviledges of this country, and then he can invite his parents to settle here straight away- i will have no say in this. Later he might suggest divorce as he has nothing to lose anymore- at this stage i woudlnt like to feel i was used and then chucked. So maybe this is like a test for me to see what his priority is. Basically i dont want to be treated badly but for him to just get everything he wants. At the same time i dont want him to struggle and am hoping there is an alternative route he can still go down without the need for me signing the form.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:11 pm

With all due respect, if you have to withhold your signature for respect, then its already a lost cause. Especially if you think he will suggest divorce once he gets ILR. You can not control people in this fashion.

You are not giving him a fast route. In fact, his route is taking longer because he switched to spousal visa and you are holding him up. He could have stayed on his previous permit and still married you without switching to spousal visa and would have been in the UK for 5 years and could have gotten ILR on his own.

You are hoping there is an alternate route? Sorry he switched to spousal visa and switching to something else now is going to muck it up for him.
As for him bringing his parents, although one person on the forum has shown that its possible, I don't think this is standard kind of visa that the HO approves every day.

Frankly, if you have faith, I think you should sign and see what happens but in the meanwhile, make sure your finances are securely in your control so you don't find your bank accounts emptied one morning. OR divorce him now and be done with it. In any case you are trying to have it both ways and if there is so much uncertaintly its not worth hanging on, make a definitive step, your explanation of how you want to handle it is borderline passive agressive.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:21 pm

butterfly wrote:helo all, thanks for ur messages. Basically i know this sounds a little confused and weird BUT i have no intention on divorce and wish to stay married to my husband. HOWEVER i am not comfortable signing this form because i feel in some ways i am being treated with no respect and being forced to do everything he wants and this will give him a fast route to becoming a british citizen with all the benefits and priviledges of this country, and then he can invite his parents to settle here straight away- i will have no say in this. Later he might suggest divorce as he has nothing to lose anymore- at this stage i woudlnt like to feel i was used and then chucked. So maybe this is like a test for me to see what his priority is. Basically i dont want to be treated badly but for him to just get everything he wants. At the same time i dont want him to struggle and am hoping there is an alternative route he can still go down without the need for me signing the form.

I think you should trust your husband some more. Has he done anything in the past to warrant your mistrust? Getting ILR and BC is just part of life being married to you as a spouse but if you feel you are doing 'Him' a favour and then don't sign it as you have been advised. I believe you refusing to sign would rather cause him to go on his own and seek other alternatives of settling in the UK has he was on that part before your marriage. You would loose a spouse if you don't play this safe. Don't let your fears lead you into making a mistake. I believe the right thing to do is to sit down with him and talk things over and if he's adamant then you can take your action but I believe people can be rational when presented with the facts. Are you uncomfortable with his parents coming over for a visit? The thing about marriage and relationships is this: Acceptance is the key to peace. Ask yourself, would you be able to live with your husband if his parents come to settle? If no you can make your decision and if yes you have can also make another decision.

I do not believe anyone can tell you what to do but you would have to make your own decisions based on the information you receive and live with the outcome whatever it would be.

Finally, have you considered marriage counselling? I think it would help a great deal with your current state of mind if both of you would seek counselling.

Have a nice day.

Mini · Post by **Mini** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:47 pm

butterfly,
It sounds like its not your relationship which is a problem but his desire to get his family here. This is a common issue in every marriage and all of us live with it and resolve it in different ways. The visa is not going to resolve this for you. Just because he is on a spouse visa and you have the power of signing the form you are toying with the thought of using this as leverage and somehow controlling the outcome. But you are missing the fact that visa is not a lifelong issue which can be held over his head whereas his family issue will be.

The decision you have to make, in my opinion, is whether you think you want to tackle the issue of his folks with him or not. If you feel it is a no brainer then just dump him now and be done with it. Unfortunately, this is married life !

On your Q...there is no short cut for him after he gets off the spouse visa. If you want to be fair, you should make your decision and tell him of your intentions as soon as possible so he can make arrangements for a WP.

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:25 pm

i have no intention on divorce and wish to stay married to my husband. HOWEVER i am not comfortable signing this form

Butterfly sounds like a devious, plotting individual who's blackmailing her husband because she sees herself as his only route to "all the benefits and privileges of this country". And that's the tool she seems happy to wield to prevent him getting any of his family over.

At first it looks like he wants to bring a whole horde of people here but then, later, it turns out that it's just his parents. We don't know how old they are, what their personal circumstances are or whether, as the son, he feels the traditional Indian responsibility to take care of them. How dare he?! Selfish brat that he is, doesn't he know the wife comes first and last?

Later he might suggest divorce as he has nothing to lose anymore- at this stage i woudlnt like to feel i was used and then chucked.

That's not really your concern, is it - that bit about "being used"? The real issue is that you don't want his parents over. Bear in mind that he didn't need to "use" you at all. He was already here legally for 3 years on a visa that kept getting renewed. But, unfortunately for him, he believed he had something permanent with you and trusted you enough to move his visa over to a spouse visa when he didn't need to (as Mini points out). So you want to now use that against him. Nice!

i am not comfortable signing this form

Considering you intend to still live with him as husband and wife... if you do sign the form you are being completely honest with the HO - so there's no problem there. If you don't sign the only reason is to get your husband to do your will, not his. Poor sod.

Yes, you have the full right to refuse to sign if you believe your marriage is no longer subsisting and your relationship came to an end.

... or if you don't like your mother-in-law.

To reflect what Smit rightly said - you're trying to play head of UK Immigration. The good news is that Smit is probably also right in that he can apply for ILR now. I hope he does. Before the divorce.

butterfly · Post by **butterfly** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:15 pm

hi, i am taking on board everyones comments and am hurt that some of you feel i am doing the wrong thing, i realised it is wrong to confuse the problems of my marriage and try and use visa issue to make my point etc ( even i am confused whther theres any point doing this) Because ultimatly i want to save my marriage, however this is just not the feeling of my husband, his attitude is that he can do what he likes , i have to obey him, he will bring his parents and i will have to live wth them and anyone else, if i dont like it his family can find him plenty of other girls in india. I guess the problem will still be same visa or no visa, however i feel this is the one thing in my control to make a stand right now. I just dont know why i should help him givem his bad behaviour and attitude in the past, its like i am letting him get away with everything and giving him what he wants.

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:28 pm

Because ultimatly i want to save my marriage

If that is really the case then marriage guidance rather than immigration forums would seem to be the way forward. Good luck.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:20 pm

his attitude is that he can do what he likes , i have to obey him, he will bring his parents and i will have to live wth them and anyone else, if i dont like it his family can find him plenty of other girls in india

Well, you have your answer right there. As I posted earlier, you would have to decide living with your husband and his parents or without him and his parents. That is your choice and NO one can help you with that decision. It is solely yours.

I guess the problem will still be same visa or no visa, however i feel this is the one thing in my control to make a stand right now.

I guess you have not understood the issues concerning visa regulations. There is nothing you can do apart from refusing to sign. Anything else is at the discretion on the Home Secretary. He can apply for another visa category if you go down this line.

I guess you got the best of advise below and I mentioned this in my post to you yesterday about seeking counselling. There are always two sides to a story and without knowing your husbands bit we can never speculate

Quote:
Because ultimatly i want to save my marriage

If that is really the case then marriage guidance rather than immigration forums would seem to be the way forward. Good luck.

Mini · Post by **Mini** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:02 pm

if i dont like it his family can find him plenty of other girls in india.

butterfly,
if you are sure this is how he feels then the visa question is even more irrelevant. I suggest you sort your relationship out and fast.

Although as jes2jes has rightly pointed out we do not know his side of the story, he may be totally justified in wanting to get his family here. One has to keep in mind that he's probably worked really hard for the last 5 yrs (maybe more) to get where he is today and giving his family a better life may have been his motivation all along. And I would'nt want to belittle that at all. Just because he married you he should'nt need to re-think his life and goals again.

Having said that it is also his duty to work towards a compromise alongwith you. Whatever happens has to be acceptable to all parties including you. And this should happen irrespective of whether you are in the esteemed position of signing on his form or not. I am not any signing authority but this is what I would expect (in the least) from someone I co-habit with.

Good luck and hope this helps.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:38 pm

I don't think it matters if he is a male chauvinist. He didn't use you to get his status as he was already here on a WP. If his objective is to get his family here, that's his perogative. If you don't want to help, your perogative too. However withholding signature to make him straighten up is just delaying the inevitable. You want to salvage it but he doesn't see anything wrong in the relationship, then there is no where to go but out.

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