HSMP - THINK b4 QUITING your Home Jobs - READ my experience)

[daisy_ktm]

Hi All,

I thought I share my HSMP experience with this board which might help other HSMP seekers to think twice before jumping..

I was a IT expert with Top Bangalore company. I did work in US & Canada through them as well. 6 months back my UK friend "invited" me to UK saying tremendous opportunity there. I was also exited to see salary & contract range there. I decided to take HSMP and moved to UK.

But I have to say UK IT scenario is very bad now.
- Not many jobs.
- UK IT jobs are ONLY for people with previous UK experience.
- if your accent is not british no hope for a job
- 1/2 year HSMP holders not considered for permanent or Contract jobs.
- Having a car & UK driving license is mandatory for any IT job now
- General hatred towards immegrants
- quite often dearly beloved attacks and bias in work place, shops etc.
- eastern european gangs all around Uk so security issues.
-Immegrants gets worst job & expect to work like a *OG.
- Govt planned to stop all HSMPin next few months.
- recently doctors are removed from HSMP next going to be IT workers



I TRIED ALL OPTIONS, FINALLY TOOK FLIGHT BACK TO INDIA & GOT JOB VERY NEXT DAY IN BANGALORE. I SHARED MY BITTER UK EXPERIENCE WITH FEW OF FRIENDS HERE & THOUGHT THIS WILL HELP NEW HSMP HOLDERS TO THINK TWICE BEFORE QUITTING INDIAN JOBS.

MOST OF THE HSMP BOARDS ARE SPONSORED BY hsmp SPONSORING COMPANIES SO NO ONE GIVE ACTUAL PICTURE..as they want more people to apply for HSMP to make money

HSMP HOLDERS THINK TWICE BEFORE QUITTING GOOD JOBS IN INDIA, THERE IS NOTING MUCH IN PROMISED LAND UNLESS READY TO TAKE "McJOB"

[ball1333]

"Govt planned to stop all HSMPin next few months"
Please provide some evidence to support this statement.

[gordon]

Dear Daisy

Thank you for sharing your experience. It does not appear to have been positive. Your comments are directed toward Indian IT professionals, but to what extent do you think your comments can be generalised to all prospective HSMP migrants ? I ask because, as a prospective migrant, I'm (a) not Indian, (b) not in IT, and (c) concerned about viability on the job market with an initial two-year visa.

For instance, how much backlash is there toward immigrants in general ? Or is that negative feeling locationally concentrated, or largely directed toward particular immigrant groups ? These dearly beloved attacks to which you refer would seem worrisome; how widespread are they, and of what do they consist ? And in the workplace, to what extent are poor job assignments a function of race or immigration status, rather than, say, seniority and experience ?

I also ask because your experience seems to run counter to that of those HSMP migrants who, after being potentially disqualified by the recent changes in the regs, were quite keen to remain in the UK.

G

[apeterso925]

I think maybe daisy_ktm is referring to the new tier system, which will eventually replace all existing immigration options, including HSMP.

But it's only June, so maybe not? The new tier system doesn't start until next year (at least 6 months from now) and I, for one, am still not clear on whether the HSMP option will disappear at that point or in 2009, when more of the new tier system rolls out.

"Govt planned to stop all HSMPin next few months"
Please provide some evidence to support this statement.

[MSI GEEK]

You are partially correct.

Countries like USA, Canada have been built by immigrants. (everyone is an immigrant, the only thing varies is first, second or third generation immigrant....)

One cannot compare them with UK or any other European nation.

Hence the difference in attitudes of people.

As far the Indian IT professionals are concerned, the Brits know they are the best amongst all foreign IT workers in UK.

Read this article:

http://www.atsco.org/files/Nov%2005-PR- ... ermits.pdf

[jamalkhan]

Not sure if I agree but the life style cost in London is very expensive and which is the killer of everyone's drea. I have seen very intelligent and hard working people struggling to pay the mortgage every month. This is because first of all, they took the first IT job which came available to them which may not have been the exact match for their skills.

Secondly the culture of sending money home as well as wife not working adds an extra cost. This all gets combined and make the stay miserable and at the end most of Indian IT people end up not saving much.

[ALee_80]

Hi All,

I thought I share my HSMP experience with this board which might help other HSMP seekers to think twice before jumping..

I was a IT expert with Top Bangalore company. I did work in US & Canada through them as well. 6 months back my UK friend "invited" me to UK saying tremendous opportunity there. I was also exited to see salary & contract range there. I decided to take HSMP and moved to UK.

But I have to say UK IT scenario is very bad now.
- Not many jobs.

Not sure about IT but there's definitely not a dearth of relevant work in the UK. You just have to be looking in the right place.

- UK IT jobs are ONLY for people with previous UK experience.

In order for one to have previous experience, isn't it necessary to get the job in the first place?! In other words, people with previous UK exp must've had a job in the UK at some point in time.

- if your accent is not british no hope for a job

Unfortunately, that's not true either. You just have to speak in a clear and comprehendible manner - not necessarily in a posh accent.

- 1/2 year HSMP holders not considered for permanent or Contract jobs.

there's no such thing as a '1/2 year HSMP' - its either 1 year or 2 years initially depending upon whether you're an in-country applicant or out-of-country.

- General hatred towards immegrants

Depends upon where you live. Also, your above statement is true for any nation. Just put yourself in their shoes - I think you'd have felt the same resentment towards ALL foreigners in your country if even only a few of them acted like jerks.

- quite often dearly beloved attacks and bias in work place, shops etc.

Are you actually saying that you've been beaten up at the place you worked at? Was it an IT firm did you say that you worked for??!! sounds more like TESCO's.

- eastern european gangs all around Uk so security issues.

Again depends upon where you live. Eastern Europeans like any other immigrant like to live in ghettos. If you've got issues with them kindly live in a slightly up-market place.

-Immegrants gets worst job & expect to work like a *OG.

I am a foreign worker. I work in a very respectable organisation in a very decent and respectable job and I work and get treated like a human being.

- Govt planned to stop all HSMPin next few months.

Please provide proof!

- recently doctors are removed from HSMP next going to be IT workers

Is that a fact or merely your personal opinion?


All I'd say is that its very easy to blame others for everything bad that happens to you when you are in a foreign land. Every thing becomes race related. I am not saying that there's no beloved in this country - there absolutely is. But then again, tell me, where is it not? Just take an example of India-now I am not even talking about foreigners in your country but people belonging to one of of your very own states - i.e. Bihaar? Would you ever go to Bihaar in a train without the fear of being thrown out of a speeding train, even though you are an Indian yourself?

Leaving your country and job is a major step which needs careful consideration and deep analysis before any decision is made. You based this major step of yours only on the basis of your friend 'INVTING' you to this country for a promise of riches. Why did you not do some research YOURSELF before you took such a huge step.

Please base your statements on facts and not personal emotions. This board is scanned by thousands of people every day who might base their decision to make the big move based on what they read here. Please try to keep this board as factual as possible.

Apologies for the long post.

ALi

[ALee_80]

Not sure if I agree but the life style cost in London is very expensive and which is the killer of everyone's drea. I have seen very intelligent and hard working people struggling to pay the mortgage every month. This is because first of all, they took the first IT job which came available to them which may not have been the exact match for their skills.

Is it mandatory for all immigrants to live in London?

UK is a small country but still not only limited to London if you know what I mean.


ALi

[SYH]

There is some truth to Daisy's statements.
In the UK, experience is placed above education. When I first arrived, the job I had in the US required several more years of work experience in the UK. In the US, if you go to a top school, then you can be put on the fast track and get a better entry level job. It was a constant struggle to get a job commensurate with my ability which was at odds with the UK job market experience criteria. So jobs based on the UK job experience standard, I would be overqualified for because the work I had done in the USA was several levels higher. It was a vicious circle with the end result of no job for over a year.
In the beginning of HSMP, many employers didn't know what it was and would be dubious that they wouldn't have to sponsor me. Now that isn't a problem anymore, however, some employers always looked at an HSMP holders as a transient (because we aren't British) and wasn't interested in hiring someone who would be gone in a year in their eyes. Even immigration thought it was a joke, always making their snide remark to me every time I entered, "I guess we have no skilled British workers in the country."
London is the toughest market with the greatest competition. To be fair, if you are having problems finding work, then you might have to go outside of London. I went to the Dorset region and found the most lucrative work there and the housing costs were significantly cheaper. I have tried to return to London for work recently and the market seemed to be quite soft so I gave up and went back to Dorset.
And finally, I had to do a lot of reinventing myself including minimizing my educational background as well as downplaying my previous job experience that I had outside of the UK to get a start in the UK. After doing this, I found work and have moved up progressively to a point where I should be more or less. Thus, sometimes you have to be willing to take a step back and not expect to get the ultimate job you had before coming to the UK. It is a matter of adaptation on HSMP vs being recruited and sponsored by a company. If the prospects of having to struggle a little bit before getting to where you want is going to annoy you, then dont come or dont come under HSMP but what I liked about HSMP was the freedom it provided so that I wasn't stuck with the same employer. That's the trade off vs a work permit.

[daisy_ktm]

"Govt planned to stop all HSMPin next few months"
Please provide some evidence to support this statement.

Thats what I heard...Doctors no more enjoy HSMP help. Now HM slow down HSMP processing & only few very highly qualified are getting now. Like in Last december I heard they will be returning all pending appilcations soon. Review seems to be going. I got chance to have personal interaction to one case worker...

[daisy_ktm]

Dear Daisy

Thank you for sharing your experience. It does not appear to have been positive. Your comments are directed toward Indian IT professionals, but to what extent do you think your comments can be generalised to all prospective HSMP migrants ? I ask because, as a prospective migrant, I'm (a) not Indian, (b) not in IT, and (c) concerned about viability on the job market with an initial two-year visa.

For instance, how much backlash is there toward immigrants in general ? Or is that negative feeling locationally concentrated, or largely directed toward particular immigrant groups ? These dearly beloved attacks to which you refer would seem worrisome; how widespread are they, and of what do they consist ? And in the workplace, to what extent are poor job assignments a function of race or immigration status, rather than, say, seniority and experience ?

I also ask because your experience seems to run counter to that of those HSMP migrants who, after being potentially disqualified by the recent changes in the regs, were quite keen to remain in the UK.

G

Thanks...My experience is around IT & that too among people of my background. Not sure about other areas & experience faced by people of other ethinic background. Not just IT Hotel mgmt industry is also totally down.

Attacks are not widespread,but attitude is very wide spread & quite explicit. I was there around Big Brother (Shilpa) issue time so additional issues added by that as well. Recently I heard dearly beloved attacks aganist ladies , which was unusual even by UK standard. What I have seen is Less around London. I have seen 10 years experienced managers from India doing poor scripting work where in people with out any basic knowledge as Managers, Also there so called managers do not do anything, if at all any work they will promptly pass in to others & get it done. Some times its pathatic.

[daisy_ktm]

I think maybe daisy_ktm is referring to the new tier system, which will eventually replace all existing immigration options, including HSMP.

But it's only June, so maybe not? The new tier system doesn't start until next year (at least 6 months from now) and I, for one, am still not clear on whether the HSMP option will disappear at that point or in 2009, when more of the new tier system rolls out.

"Govt planned to stop all HSMPin next few months"
Please provide some evidence to support this statement.

Please see my earlier message, i got chance to talk to one case worker whom I met on personal capacity, Like in Dec all remaining applications planned to be send back it seems. Thats why all agencies are rushing people to apply soon, as tehy know all applications will be returned in few months. So final GOLD digging..

[adnantps]

im from pakistan

i have 3 first cuzins and 8 of my university batch mates working in UK. and many are studying there.

All r doing great....i will be leaving in august on HSMP VISA and hoping to do good......

daisy---- i really dont know wht did u bang into....but the scenario u posted makes UK a living hell ....

i guess this fact will clear it all...uk has the highest population of indians outside india..doest it make UK yr second home.....???? Please give some evidences against yr strong accusations.....

[MSI GEEK]

Brits consider relevant experience in High Regard, not education.

Almost half of British IT pros/managers do not even have an IT related degree. Many venture into IT related work after age 30 ( a very late start). Many employers do not care much about education.

Hence, they find it hard to believe how fresh IT graduates in India can do the same high quality work as "Experienced" local guys.

They need to realise: a person is paid for what he does, not what he knows

[adnantps]

I disagree with yr comments...
experience is very much necessary to work in a team or to lead a team .......microsoft motto when hiring...we dont test yr knowledge; we test yr potential....

to be an IT manager needs exp ..fresh grads can be good at new technology or development...but to synergize teh whole project ..experience is a must rather than an IT backround or a degreee...

[gordon]

This is a very interesting discussion. The HSMP application process seems to place a lot of weight on earnings, but with a very high premium on PhDs otherwise (not so much on a master's, what with the points being only 5 more than a bachelor's degree). So I wonder whether the unfavourable perceptions vis-a-vis migrants would be differentiated by sector; for instance:

1. IT sector: if their search criteria is experience, and they an applicant pool of those who've got in with age points (ie potential but not experience) and education, then it's not going to be a very good fit, is it.
2. Academic/NGO sector: in contrast, the academic/NGO sector relies more on education as the signalling mechanism, and less on earnings (since the pay is bad or worse, wherever you go). But most non-PhDs in the academic or charity sector aren't going to make it into the UK on account of the earnings hurdle, so if that sector's looking for people, it's not going to find them via HSMP. So that mightn't be a good use of HSMP either.

So one might argue that the HSMP application process is, in practice, biased toward those with bachelor's and master's degrees (either is pretty much de rigueur, with points for either earnings (as a proxy for experience) or age (as a proxy for potential). It's a combination that might not work so well for those heading toward the UK job-market from abroad, if the target sector(s) prefer a narrower set of criteria for employment (ie they might just prefer experience, or just education).

Have there been any studies of how employers have responded to HSMP applicants? Are they happy with the new crop of applicants? Do they prefer HSMP applicants because it's cost-shifting from the work-permits application process? Are they tending to hire only certain types of HSMP applicants (ie, of a certain age, or with a minimum of years' experience? (Hmm, I'd love to do a dissertation on this.)

G

[nshar1]

Please go thru my post for my opinion:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=16316


I think the UK immigration policy is Absolutely ruthless. These people are not able to decide whether they wants immigrants or they do not want.

They take an undertaking before issuing EC that "you want to make UK your main home"
and then they literally("actually" would be the better word here) throw you out.

Think twice before choosing UK...
Do you want to be on the receiving end of beloved?
Their own beloved watchdog is saying that their immigration policy is dearly beloved and illegal.

[Rog]

I think there is some merit in the fact that UK is unfair towards skilled migrants. Other countries like Canada and Australia give skilled migrants PR on entry so the only struggle is to establish oneself and find a suitable job. When I entered UK in 2003 end on HSMP, in addition to having senior managerial experience in financial services, I thought that having qualified through HSMP itself would have some weight on my cv (the threshold was 75 points then). However in reality I found it difficult to get a suitable job as all employers only looked at the expiry date on my visa and refused to give me a permanent job. I was able to get managerial level interviews with leading organisations but no one was aware of HSMP and stated that they cannot offer a job with a visa of less than 1 year. To survive I had to look for junior jobs where also I was rejected on account of being overqualified hence had to hide my senior level experience on my cv to get a junior contract job in my industry. After 3 year extension I was able to get a permanent managerial job but due to low level of UK salary in the first year I am still not able to earn enough to meet 75 points. I was looking forward for ILR which would finally enable me to get well paid jobs as the employers would not have to worry about my visa status but HO played a cruel trick by the retrospective application of new rules. Now it is possible for me to obtain a work permit to switch categories but due to HO policy of restarting the clock I am looking at 9 years of stay in UK before ILR. I have no problem with struggle to establish oneself but the cheating by HO of clearly advising us in 2003 that subsequent revisions to HSMP would not affect us but actually doing otherwise is dishonesty of the highest order in luring people to UK to false promises so that they can get tax paying workers to support their own free loaders then deporting them once they have no use for them. I advise people to think 1000 times before leaping overseas for greener pastures unless they have a highly paid job offer lined up.

[SYH]

I found it difficult to get a suitable job as all employers only looked at the expiry date on my visa and refused to give me a permanent job. I was able to get managerial level interviews with leading organisations but no one was aware of HSMP and stated that they cannot offer a job with a visa of less than 1 year. To survive I had to look for junior jobs where also I was rejected on account of being overqualified hence had to hide my senior level experience on my cv to get a junior contract job in my industry.

I had the same experience as explained above. We actually paved the way for the HSMP people who followed. I agree, it was always difficult to convince employers that I was here long term with a 1 year visa. No matter how many times I explained as long as I am working, I would be extended, it was of no solace to the employer and thus I was not hired. It is really hard pill to swallow when we had to struggle. It was no fun being unemployed in the beginning. And then to have the prize of ILR after 4 years taken away was a real slap in the face. To add insult to injury, these new critieria which is being used in a retroactively manner always makes for sleepless nights for me as to whehter I am going to be approved when it comes time. It sickens me sometimes. However it is good to know that I wasn't the only one struggling in the early HSMP days.

[daisy_ktm]

I found it difficult to get a suitable job as all employers only looked at the expiry date on my visa and refused to give me a permanent job. I was able to get managerial level interviews with leading organisations but no one was aware of HSMP and stated that they cannot offer a job with a visa of less than 1 year. To survive I had to look for junior jobs where also I was rejected on account of being overqualified hence had to hide my senior level experience on my cv to get a junior contract job in my industry.

I had the same experience as explained above. We actually paved the way for the HSMP people who followed. I agree, it was always difficult to convince employers that I was here long term with a 1 year visa. No matter how many times I explained as long as I am working, I would be extended, it was of no solace to the employer and thus I was not hired. It is really hard pill to swallow when we had to struggle. It was no fun being unemployed in the beginning. And then to have the prize of ILR after 4 years taken away was a real slap in the face. To add insult to injury, these new critieria which is being used in a retroactively manner always makes for sleepless nights for me as to whehter I am going to be approved when it comes time. It sickens me sometimes. However it is good to know that I wasn't the only one struggling in the early HSMP days.

Yes , Most of agencies now will ask if HSMP if its they will not be considered for most of Contract or Perm Jobs. I think all employers instructs these agencies to do so....Its a Pity..

[MSI GEEK]

Yes , Most of agencies now will ask if HSMP if its they will not be considered for most of Contract or Perm Jobs. I think all employers instructs these agencies to do so....Its a Pity..

Then, what is point of acquiring Highly Skilled Status?

Most agencies ask:

Are you eligible to work in UK?

Not whether you have ILR, British or EU citizenship?


Employer sponsored work permits have reduced considerably since year 2002 because all IT related occupations were removed from Shortage list.
Hence, employers have to carry out a resident labour market test across UK & EU. This is extremely time consuming, which no employer likes.

No employer is supposed to discrimate otherwise if a job applicant is eligible to work.

However, repeated changes to HSMP rules can make the above mentioned very likely.

[gordon]

On the other hand, the changes to HSMP suggest that entrants from this year will come in with no less than two years' work authorisation in the first instance. So that has to be an improvement and should lessen any likelihood of hiring complications based on the duration of the work authorisation, to say nothing of obviating the need for the UK-wide and EU-wide resident labour market testing.

That said, if IT jobs were removed from the shortage list (in 2002), and GPs as a separate sub-category from the HSMP scheme (in 2006), both those policy changes suggest that there is no longer slack in those segments of the labour market. So if a large or disproportionate number of HSMP entrants are in the IT sector, for instance, then that suggests that they are entering an already saturated market segment, where employers can be very picky and can choose to take only the very best of those with HSMP status who want to work in that sector.

G

[SYH]

Yes , Most of agencies now will ask if HSMP if its they will not be considered for most of Contract or Perm Jobs. I think all employers instructs these agencies to do so....Its a Pity..

I never got the sense they were trying to filter me out based on HSMP, just that if I was authorized to work here and on what basis. HSMP is a small proportion compared to work permits so I could see their unease of not understanding how it works.

[itsme]

This is really interesting topic, during the inital days I too was having the same feelilng and second "daisy_ktm" for some of the poins he raised.

Almost 99% of the immigrants like us leave Home Country for Better salary only, but reality bites when we face the hard reality.

These are my conclusions overall and I am suggesting them to all my friends who are prospectively thinking of migrating to UK

1) Make a spreadsheet of your final savings back in India or your home country.

2) Me being in IT and one of the hottest/stable skillset, my points may be biased but overall earnings / expenses are almost similar across the IT field. Earnings here would be in the min. range of 30-35k ( on the high end for a career starter in UK ). For a family decent expenses would be in the range of 1500 GBP PM ( although this might vary) without a car.
( I live in Slough, near to London Paddington )

3) If your spouse is not working / cannot work, calculate the total outgoings Compare the salaries / savings.
http://netsalary.blogspot.com gives exact amount of net salary pm in UK

also its noteworthy that hikes here in UK doesnt exceeed 3% where as back in India is around 20% min. PA.

4) For a family person its not safe to do contracts ( due to risks involved)
and also moving around jobs is not easy task.

Also beloved/accent/work place issues daisy_tm has raised are very trivial and can be tackled easily. Be positive.

Disclaimer:- If both husband and wife are in hottest skills of IT and with relevant work experience in there home country, its better to come to UK and earn /save decently. I personally feel UK will be the best option for them. and vice versa if only one of them works.

I have been UK on a 6 month WP and this is my 2nd year on HSMP. initially it took me 3 months to grab a contract position.

[rg1]

The British Govt. created HSMP program to lure skilled migrants into UK and do the work which they don't want to do, then kick them on back by changing rule when renewal period comes.

As long as so called developed world won't become developed, this high tech slave trade will continue.