downgrading citizenship

[americanfootball]

Hi. I'm thinking about applying for European citizenship, and I am willing to give up my American citizenship if I have to, to get the European one. The question here now is, can I downgrade myself to a permanent resident instead of a U.S. citizen? Or do I have to give up everything altogether?

[SYH]

in order to get what you call european citizenship you had to have obtained some visa which allows you to live temporarily and then have lived in that location for 5 years minimum. So you wont be downgrading your citizenship anytime soon since you would be stateless until you could get citizenship elsewhere. Most countries allow dual citizenship but you are always welcome to renounce citizenship. Try going to the us embassy website for the requirements

[Marco 72]

Hi. I'm thinking about applying for European citizenship, and I am willing to give up my American citizenship if I have to, to get the European one.

There is no such thing as "European citizenship". EU countries have completely different rules, requirements, processing times, etc, for naturalisation. Only some of them require applicants to renounce their previous nationalities.

The question here now is, can I downgrade myself to a permanent resident instead of a U.S. citizen?

No, you can't. See here.

[Marco 72]

in order to get what you call european citizenship you had to have obtained some visa which allows you to live temporarily and then have lived in that location for 5 years minimum.

Not true. Italy, for example, allows foreigners who marry an Italian citizen to apply for naturalization two years later, even if they have never set foot in the country.

To the OP: were you planning to claim citizenship by descent from a grandparent, perhaps? If so, there is most likely no need for you to renounce US citizenship.

[SYH]

Marco it seems your mission is to be contradictory to whatever I say. You don't mean not true to what I say, you should say. IN addition to what SYH says you can obtain ...
IN fact the two year for marriage is very similar to other European countries and the UK usually requiring 3 years. Do you see me saying, NOT TRUE MARCO, ITS 3 YEARS ELSEWHERE
As he hasn't mentionned a significant other, I didn't bother including this possbility but good on you for you brining it up

[sakura]

Marco it seems your mission is to be contradictory to whatever I say. You don't mean not true to what I say, you should say. IN addition to what SYH says you can obtain ...
IN fact the two year for marriage is very similar to other European countries and the UK usually requiring 3 years. Do you see me saying, NOT TRUE MARCO, ITS 3 YEARS ELSEWHERE
As he hasn't mentionned a significant other, I didn't bother including this possbility but good on you for you brining it up

Yeah, I mean, do you want him hurrying along the streets of NYC desperatly looking for an Italian woman to marry just so he can become "European"? What's the point of showing him the back door!?

Anyhow, americanfootball, I suggest you select a country and read their immigration rules before renouncing your American citizenship or something. If you're highly skilled, try the UK or elsewhere, if you're still young, get a good college degree from the US and apply for a higher degree somewhere. If you have European ancestry, call your grandparents and apply through them! But all countries have specific rules on these things. But, for the life of me, I cannot understand why you think "downgrading" your citizenship will help.

[yankeegirl]

So you wont be downgrading your citizenship anytime soon since you would be stateless until you could get citizenship elsewhere.

I just wanted to add to this that the US government won't let a citizen renounce citizenship unless they are a dual citizen and can prove it, so the OP wouldn't be in a situation of becoming stateless.
Americanfootball, is there a particular country you are looking to move to?

[Marco 72]

I just wanted to add to this that the US government won't let a citizen renounce citizenship unless they are a dual citizen and can prove it, so the OP wouldn't be in a situation of becoming stateless.

This is not true, sorry. See section D of the US government link I gave in my previous post:

"Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be permanently barred from entering the United States. Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual back to the United States in some non-citizen status."

Indeed, former WWII bomber pilot Garry Davis, the founder of the World Service Authority, was able to renounce his citizenship in 1948 and has been stateless since then. The only requirements to renounce US citizenship are

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country; and
3. sign an oath of renunciation.
4. If the US is at war, the Attorney General must approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense.

Unless it can later be shown that this was done under duress, renunciation of US citizenship is irrevocable. By contrast, countries such as the UK and Italy require citizens to show they have another nationality before allowing renunciation (they also allow renunciants to apply to get their citizenship back if they change their mind).

[Docterror]

IN fact the two year for marriage is very similar to other European countries and the UK usually requiring 3 years. Do you see me saying, NOT TRUE MARCO, ITS 3 YEARS ELSEWHERE

SYH, to be fair, your comment did make it look like the only way to get a "European citizenship" is to get some kind of a visa for the place and then residing there. Marco72 only pointed out a way to get naturalised even without setting foot in a European country as there seemed no leeway for such an option in your first post.

The 3 years to get naturalised is after residence in the UK. Without the residence the best a person can do is the ILE and so it quite is differnet from getting naturalised. So the example you have have used, with regards to getting a "European citizenship" and not a PR/ILE/ILR, is comparing apples to... apple pips.

Yeah, I mean, do you want him hurrying along the streets of NYC desperatly looking for an Italian woman to marry just so he can become "European"? What's the point of showing him the back door!?

Well. the back door definitely exists and if the Italian government doesn't think the back door is to be hidden, then what is the point in we treating it as a well guarded secret. Also, the information is always around. If anyone wants to manipulate it... we definitely can't go to all the Spam in the world and get rid of the knives just because someone can use it for a murder!

[SYH]

SYH, to be fair, your comment did make it look like the only way to get a "European citizenship"

To be fair, you are nitpicking
I didn't write the only way to get residency is ...
It is a forum that means there are going to be other points of view and options

[yankeegirl]

Thanks for the link Marco, I guess I had received some incorrect info from the embassy a while back (big surprise lol).

[Docterror]

I didn't write the only way to get residency is ...

Trust me.. it's hard to read it any other way. Looking at what you wrote,-

in order to get what you call european citizenship you had to have obtained some visa which allows you to live temporarily and then have lived in that location for 5 years minimum.

the information that you gave is just plain wrong! Sorry!

you are nitpicking

... I just refuse to go down that path with you. Have a nice time!

[SYH]

I didn't write the only way to get residency is ...

Trust me.. it's hard to read it any other way. Looking at what you wrote,-
TRUST YOU? It has nothing to do with trust. You mean, you can't read it any other way

in order to get what you call european citizenship you had to have obtained some visa which allows you to live temporarily and then have lived in that location for 5 years minimum.

the information that you gave is just plain wrong! Sorry!
What is so wrong with it, this is the general principle. Sometimes summarizing makes stuff imprecise, it doesn't make it wrong. So annoying when people do that. Its wrong and what is the right proposition in your oh so humble opinion

you are nitpicking

... I just refuse to go down that path with you. Have a nice time!

You already did by being petty

[americanfootball]

i have not made up my mind yet, but i think spain is one of the countries that require you to renounce your original citizenship, but if i do take up spanish citizenship by marrying a spanish woman, i would still like to keep the option of going back to the usa just in case. for me, permanent residency is good enough in usa, because it allows a person to work. that is why i asked.

[SYH]

I dont know about spain but in netherlands, if you marry you get to keep your original nationality. It is through work permits, that you tend to lose your first nationality but you should check the immigration rules of the country you are interested in

[sakura]

Yeah, I mean, do you want him hurrying along the streets of NYC desperatly looking for an Italian woman to marry just so he can become "European"? What's the point of showing him the back door!?

Well. the back door definitely exists and if the Italian government doesn't think the back door is to be hidden, then what is the point in we treating it as a well guarded secret. Also, the information is always around. If anyone wants to manipulate it... we definitely can't go to all the Spam in the world and get rid of the knives just because someone can use it for a murder!

Umm...my post was made in jest. Read the part where I write that he's looking for any Italian woman to marry for easy entry. Sorry if that wasn't clear....maybe I should have put a smily face next to it.

[sakura]

Yeah, I mean, do you want him hurrying along the streets of NYC desperatly looking for an Italian woman to marry just so he can become "European"? What's the point of showing him the back door!?

Well. the back door definitely exists and if the Italian government doesn't think the back door is to be hidden, then what is the point in we treating it as a well guarded secret. Also, the information is always around. If anyone wants to manipulate it... we definitely can't go to all the Spam in the world and get rid of the knives just because someone can use it for a murder!

Umm...my post was made in jest. Read the part where I write that he's looking for any Italian woman to marry for easy entry. Sorry if that wasn't clear....maybe I should have put a smily face next to it.

Hmm...upon closer inspection of my own post, I DID have a smiley to show I was kidding (retires with peace of mind).